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Buell Motorcycle Forum » XBoard » Buell XBoard Archives » Archive through August 18, 2005 » How do I "scrub" in a new tire? « Previous Next »

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Tahoe_xbuelligan
Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 10:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

New Pilots and wondering how to scrub em in as mentioned on the board
Thanks
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Frausty12r
Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 10:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I personally find the most abrasive road with the biggest turns I can find and gradually take it with more and more speed until it's completely scrubbed. (No glaze left) You could also use some scotch-brite pads and just scrub all the glazing off, butI prefer the first cuz you're riding =)
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Chainsaw
Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 11:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I wash 'em with soap and water, then scuff them up with a big wire brush, wash 'em again, and then wipe them down with rubbing alcohol. Not as fun as riding, but I haven't dropped a bike on slick new tires either. : )
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Blitzen
Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 11:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Nightmare at dealership...Buell newbie got a new rear tire put on and no one told him that bit of info before letting him take off and slide across the dealership enterance.....I give every bueller I meet a card with my name and the web address to Badweatherbikers.com This board really is the best source for us red haired stepchildren of Willie G. .....Keep it up
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Metalstorm
Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 11:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I pretty much do like Frausty12r. It takes me longer as I try to be really carefull the first 200 miles on new rubber. I hear it takes several heat cycles to sweat out the mold release agent that's used in most tires these days. I'ts just something I've heard, not something I know but I don't mind being a little over cautious when it comes to new tires.
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Lovematt
Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 12:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Heat cycles are also important along with taking it easy with new tires. The tires don't need to get smoking hot but they have been relatively cold since they were manufactured.

I have tried wiping off the surface area and scrubbing them a bit which helps speed up the process but it is not a substitute for the entire process.

I am lucky in that my commute is about 20 miles so I try to make sure I get tires when I will get in a few round trips between work and home. This is perfect for getting the tires ready for the fun times ahead.

I also take it easy on the turns and limit lean angles as much as possible for the first 100 miles or so. Then I start gradually going further and further for the next 100 or so. If I have been commuting then that means the tires have had about 10 heat cycles as well as easy riding early on.

(Message edited by lovematt on August 14, 2005)
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Nadz
Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 01:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I get the tires hot with straight riding then ride around in a parking lot doing MSF-style tight turns. You can scuff the butter off nearly to the edge without going very fast.
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Bruceclay
Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 01:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

One thing I have noticed is that due to the great feed back I get on the 'bolt you get some warning when things start to slip. As long as you aren't in a place where you have to maintain the lean angle you get the opportunity to recover.

that's another way of saying not to throw it all away, leave yourself some room to recover.
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M1combat
Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 02:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I wash the tires with a scrubbie pad and dish washing soap before I mount them.

I weave back and forth for a while while heading to the spars. That's about two miles. Once I get there, I do the 11 miles of the spars at a moderate pace but leaning it over more and more as I go. I try to have about 1/2" strips left on the rear when I get to the end. On the way back I completely get rid of the strips on the back. On the second round trip I get rid of the strips on the front.
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Mike748
Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 03:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

My race bike is not street legal so I can't scrub them in on the highway. I give the tires a once over with a palm sander to rough em up.
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Buellshyter
Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 03:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

what grit?
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Rocketsprink
Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 05:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Put 100 miles of not too arresive riding on them and they'll be fine. Funny thing, my Brother in law put new Pilot Powers on right before or Braggin' at the Dragon trip. Put 20 miles on them. Never washed them. Rode on wet pavement the first day and NEVER ran into any trouble. Now the really question is how the hell do you scuff in new race tires!?
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Rocketsprink
Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 05:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Yes, what grit!???
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Mike748
Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 05:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I use medium general purpose, usually 100 grit. Nothing dramatic just enough to remove the shine.

(Message edited by mike748 on August 14, 2005)
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Tomd
Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 06:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Hi,

Well for my race tires I pull around the burn out box, back in, flip the burnout switch on the limiter, hold the brake, set the line-lock, put the it in low, load the converter to about 4800, flip the throttle open a bit to get them spinning, bump the limiter, shift into 2ed, run it up on the limiter, let go the line-lock and let it carry out of the box as the tires heat up nice, few hops to clean them, flip the limiter burnout switch off then stage the car.. Oh wait, wrong type of racing... whoops, my bad. lol.

OK, seriously now, I use a DA with a 120 grit disk to rough up the new bike tires. This trick also works for bikes that have been sitting around a bit and have developed a dry glaze. (If you have a set with a dry glaze on them, inspect the sidewalls carefully, bet along with the dry surface, you'll have some cracks on the sidewalls)

Tom
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Starter
Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 07:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Go for a ride and gradually lean further.
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Kdan
Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 07:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

As soon as I got my Pilot Powers, I rode the 70 or so miles to some really nice twisty roads in North Georgia, started slow and went from there. Even hit some wet spots and no problem whatsoever. The Pilot Powers stuck like glue! Even brand new.
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Rocketsprink
Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 07:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I 2nd the ability of these tires in the rain. Rained everyday on our trip, and NO problems. Oil is a whole other story.....
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Doughnut
Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 08:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

scrubing a tire? Is this to get the "bumpy, wrinkly glaze" off of a brand new tire? What is this stuff?
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Frausty12r
Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 08:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Doughnut, its a release agent that the molds for the tire are lined with before injection the rubber to make the tire.

It keep the tire from sticking to the mold when they split it. Just a shame they don't have a release agent, release agent they can do this stuff before the tires shipped (*grin*)

Had to say that, but it also acts as a protectant to keep the tread from from drying out during shipping, and rack time, until it's sold/mounted/ridden on.
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Briz31
Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 11:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Replaced the Dunlops with a set of Michelins,
Pilot Roads as I mostly use the bike for comuting.
First couple of trips just take it easy, they heat up Ok, wore off the slick gloss over a couple of days, gradule leaning into corners.
No problems..
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Justice
Posted on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 05:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I just put on a set of the Pilot Powers and had them scrubbed to the edge after 100km (60mi).
They stick like s**t on a blanket.
I also really like the way they handle on my XB9R now that I reset my suspension.
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Macbuell
Posted on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 07:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I'm with Nadz on this one. I make sure I get the tire warmed up then find an empty parking lot where I do figure eights gradually increasing the lean angle. Do that for about ten minutes and until you get a nice lean and you should be ready to go. It has never failed me with half a dozen sets of tires over the years. Just make sure you start off slow with a very slight lean and gradually increase the lean angle.
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Skyguy
Posted on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 09:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Not this way!! Was working two jobs and not getting much sleep. One at a motorcycle dealer the other at an optical company. Gave the keys to service for a new rear tire in the morning. They rode it back replaced the tire and reparked it for me. I forgot I had it done.... Left the driveway in front of the shop went to lift the front end out a right turn (tradition) and promptly swapped ends twice. I got ejected off the bike landed on my feet and caught the bike by the handlebar. I did not drop it somehow but was ultra embaresed and very lucky.
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Jeremyh
Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 12:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

when i put new rubber on my bikes i just ride it as if it is the day i just bought it and don't want to do anything stupid to screw the bike up the first day. Take the bike out on some curves, heat up the tires, sand the out of them, scrub them with soap, do a few burnouts and then ride,ride,ride,ride,ride,ride,ride, and then do some more riding.
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Glitch
Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 12:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

What's needed with a new tire is heat.
That's what gets the compounds in the tire reacting.
Take a quick 30 minute ride on the interstate at about 70, that'll about do it.
As far as swerving back and forth thinking you're heating up the tires, you're not.
Running in a straight line and using the brakes heat the tires up, swerving back and forth cools them down.
There's an article on this in the KV somewhere, some motorcycle journalists tried both ways, and with a pyrometer proved what is said above.
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M1combat
Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 01:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Of course. But swerving back and forth scrubs them incrementally.

I wash them first. After that I gently weave back and forth for a few miles headed to my favorite mountain road. This isn't to heat them, it's to scrub them a little wider than just going straight does. After that, I ride a twisty section of road at a moderate pace. Once I have them scrubbed a bit further I start working the rear tire down to the edge. As soon as the rear gets to the edge I start working on the front edge.

So far, I've always been able to completely scrub a set of tires in about 20 miles or so. I'm not exactly recommending that anyone do what I do... Just letting people know what I do. Generally the rear feels a tad greasy for the first eight to ten miles but I work it over to the edge gradually. It feels a bit like an overheated tire actually. The gradual part is the important part. I start weaving to get about 10 degrees of lean scrubbed. Once I get that done and I've arrived at my favorite section of twisties I go for about 20 degrees for a few miles, then about 25, then about 30, 35, 40, then I go until the edges of my boots are scraping. By the time I get done with my "scrub route" I generally have only about a 64th of an inch strip left on the front tire unless it's a hot summer day, then I can get rid of the front strip too. For the record, I generally only lean to the edge of the front tire on my scrub trip and on hot summer days after I've already checked out the condition of the pavement in previous trips across the spars on THAT day. That way the very edge doesn't get used much and when the front starts to wash out it's there to help save my : ).

Actually... The last pair I did (just last weekend) I didn't wash them first. this was the only time they've felt greasy/overheated. If I wash them with dawn dish washing soap first then they don't tend to do that at all (still scrubbing them gradually... I'm not saying you can wash your tires and then ride like a bat out of hell)
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Starter
Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 07:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

This practise of people washing and sanding their new tyres is utter BULLS%*T. When was the last time you saw Rossi's team out with the scotch brite and dishsoap "scrubbing" in his qualifying rear? The tyre warmers kinda give the science away. All a tyre needs is a moderate amount of heat and the compound will grip adequately for 90% of lean and throtle. This is why taking it seatdy in a few corners will heat up both sides of the carcass and your done. Winter maybe a few more corners.
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12r
Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 04:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Amen, Starter.
I live < 20 miles from Michelin UK and they are 100% helpful with tech questions. Just warm them up and increase the lean angle gradually. The new surface may look shiny but it's real soft and grips like mad.

Interestingly, Michelin advised me to keep the tyres away from electrical power sources...
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Spatten1
Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 09:46 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Electrical power sources: they probably mean electrical motors which create ozone gas which degrades tires. Tire stores are always supposed to store the compressor in a different area than the tires.

I ran new tires at the track Saturday, one easy lap, one a little more aggressive, then let'r rip. Guys run new tires on the race track all the time.
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M1combat
Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 11:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Yeah... and they gradually scrub them in.

Washing the tire with soap is a precaution to try to prevent something from happening in the first 100 feet or so. They are noticably less slippery afterwards.

"When was the last time you saw Rossi's team out with the scotch brite and dishsoap "scrubbing" in his qualifying rear?"

You really think his tire supplier gives him tires that still have mold release on them? No... A tire manufacturer at that level is going to make sure they can just hand a team a set of tires and say "Keep them warm."

A few corners? Come on dude... tires are slippery when you get them. You say that after "a few corners" you can get to 90% lean angle... Bull-.

"Just warm them up and increase the lean angle gradually. "

Uh, yeah... That's what I said...

"I wash them first. After that I gently weave back and forth for a few miles headed to my favorite mountain road. This isn't to heat them, it's to scrub them a little wider than just going straight does. After that, I ride a twisty section of road at a moderate pace. Once I have them scrubbed a bit further I start working the rear tire down to the edge. As soon as the rear gets to the edge I start working on the front edge."

See...

If you don't want to wash your tires... great. Don't. But PLEASE don't try for 90% lean angle after "a few corners" unless your tires DID just come out of a heater. In the winter... You might want to make it a few miles.
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Rick_a
Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 12:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I used to ride carefully for a 1-2 hundred miles...now, as many have stated, I can get 'em scrubbed in about 25 by finding some low speed aggressive corners and progressively using more lean.
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