| Author | Message | ||
     Max |
Is there much of advantage in using a chain over a belt drive??? How much does it cost to do conversion to chain? | ||
| Ronlv |
do it yourself $200 | ||
| Newxb9er |
Sparked a big discussion. Basically the advantage of Belt is no chain lash, no chain lube, no tension setting, no dirt. The reason the race guys convert to chain is so they can change the sprockets for different tracks, and be able to adjust the wheel spacing for that. If you're hell bent on a chain, go for it. I like having to only inspect my belt. I like that it isn't dirty. I like that it looks cool. I like that it has a "Auto Tensioner". Am I missing anything? Oh, Eric and his elves chose it for a reason, and I think I'll trust that it serves a good purpose for this bike. | ||
| Saintly |
"Auto tensioner" what do you mean by that? Take another look... there's nothing "auto" about it. It's fixed and belts are getting to be a real nuisance to me. I just snapped my 2'nd one in 2 months! I'm looking to do a chain conversion like the one Fullpower has. Getting stuck in the middle of no-mans-land when your belt unexpectedly pops sucks! | ||
| M1combat |
Saintly - '03 9R... Two belts in short order... unfortunately that scenario is all too common on the '03 bikes. Did you swap it or did you have a dealer do it? Are you CERTAIN that you got the upgraded belt? Are you CERTAIN that whoever did the install didn't twist the belt AT ALL or bend it backwards AT ALL? I'm only against chains due to the dirt/grime and the snatchy-ness during throttle off/on transitions... I don't mind the extra maintenance at all myself. In any case, there are VERY strict rules about how to handle the '03 belts (not SOO much with the upgraded belt, but maybe you got an old dealer stocked belt?) and if they aren't followed they don't last long at all. Just for the record, I broke my '04 12R belt at a little more than 5K miles. It already had a small hole in it that lasted about 4K and it broke landing a throttle on jump. I don't blame the belt at all. This one has 11K on it and I ROLLED IT ONTO THE REAR PULLEY UNDER FULL TENSION. Talk about mishandling a belt... That's pretty much it  . It's already survived at least five jumps and numerous kerb hops. I like belts so far. I really don't mean to rub it in exactly, but I suspect you may have gotten an old non-upgrade belt and maybe it got twisted/bent backwards in shipping and/or installation. Max - As far as advantage... The ONLY one I see is that you can change your gear ratio. The dis-advantages... Dirty Less than optimal tension (even when adjusted properly) causes snatchy feeling mid-corner (I always hated that but didn't know it until I got an XB. Adjustment Maintenance Dirty Cost - Both for conversion and chain/sprocket replacement Dirty They can absolutely TEAR YOUR LEG UP when they break They can absolutely TEAR YOUR BIKE UP when they break Dirty | ||
| Saintly |
M1: 1. Dealer installed belt 2. upgraded belt... not sure. Dealer sucks so I probably got F***ed & received another of the 1st des. 3. Did they twist or bend backward? Again dealer sucks, so they probably F***ed me and twisted it intentionally. My position is: I can buy 530 chain at any tractor supply store in America, but try to find a goddamned belt at 9PM on a Saturday when you're 700 miles from home! I can't own a bike that I'm afraid to go far with for fear of breaking down & being stranded. I'm about reliability and if maintenance & adjustment come along for the ride then so be it. My buddy's 05 GSXR has a chain on it and he's never had to call for help yet. As for my XB, "come rescue me" is getting played out! | ||
| Newxb9er |
Well, if you are worried about it snapping again, go for it! I think the ones that have done the chain kit like it, I haven't heard otherwise. I don't hear many people complain about the belt breaking anymore. Buell came out with a complete new belt for 2005. They went to a Goodyear belt. I think it has a different tooth count because Gates owns the patent on the belt for the 03-04. Buell says the 05 belt is as stout as they come. And they would put it up against a chain any day. So, you might think of upgrading to the 05 stuff. DaveS sells the kit I think. Just a couple options. I understand about the thought of it breaking in the middle of nowhere with little chance of a Buell dealer being around. Good luck, let us know what you decide. | ||
| Anonymous |
Then, of course, there's the '06 belt . . . | ||
| Rageonthedl |
i think i may be in need of the '06 belt, i have 18k on my 04 12s and the belt is sooo stretched out that i can pull it off the rear pully with no problem. My 85lbs of TQ at the wheel must be stretching it out. | ||
| Newxb9er |
At the Laguna dinner with Eric, someone asked how the new belt does in dirt. He replied, "Better than the last." So I might have to update my '03 belt to the '06 system. Just have to find a reason! | ||
| Cruisin |
It was posted before that the newest belt has the same tensile strength as a 530 chain. Suddenly the chain lost it's strength advantage... | ||
| Davefla |
I have to admit, belt replacement on a road trip causes me some worry. Aside: I wonder if the Ulysses will have some sort of full-coverage belt guard. Perhaps with molded-in vents big enough to let some of the dust and sand back out, yet still small enough to stop pea gravel from coming in? | ||
| On1wheel |
I replaced my belt with a chain because i was in daytona for bike week (more bike shops per capita than anywhere) when mine broke on the second day! i went to over 10 or 12 shops,only to find out someone else was on same mission as i was looking for same belt. we met at the last shop, and i was right in front of him in line! the last belt in town,and i got it! coulda made some good money from him but i chose to ride. i did chose to use the nickle plated overly high tensile for looks and maint. not too dirty really, and much more options in sprocket size. | ||
| Cataract2 |
pssst... Little secret. If all else fails there are shops outside of Daytona. | ||
| On1wheel |
i actually covered a very large area around daytona,about a 75 mile radius. up to st augustine to ocala and even to tampa. 1 1/2 days calling and driving around.was a fri,so nothing could ship till mon or tues. the one i found was at a local shop that wasn`t marked in stock.noticed it hanging on wall and ask if i could count the teeth to rule it out. | ||
| Ryker77 |
plus a chain is easy to change and can be done with very little tools. Just another one of those things. If you have tons of money to waste. Use a belt, replace it often and make sure you have road side insurance. I don't ride that far from home so I'll just keep my belt untill I get the extra cash for a chain conversion. Spent too much $$$$ on pulling the fuil injection for a carb.. | ||
| Cataract2 |
On1wheel, try south my friend. Anyways, just how much better is this 06 belt going to be compared to the 04-05 one. | ||
| On1wheel |
the other reason for changing over to a chain was i wanted to stretch the swing arm to give overall better look. the thing i hated most on the bike was it looked like it had been rearended and shoved the wheel under the bike. friends said it looked like a dog with tail tucked between its legs. i added 3 1/2" to the arm. now it looks like it should. with "ATTITUDE"  | ||
| On1wheel |
 | ||
| On1wheel |
that happened in `96 so not alotta buell info or help out there. i drove down to orlando. most places closed at noon on sat. so that didnt matter anyhow. | ||
| Cataract2 |
Ah, ok. I thought you meant recently. | ||
| Blake |
Even properly punctuated, it is statements like the following that have no place on this board: "If you have tons of money to waste. Use a belt, replace it often and make sure you have road side insurance." Can anyone tell me why? | ||
| Davefla |
For one thing, it doesn't include the usual disclaimers: "your mileage may vary", etc. For another thing, it IS rather judgemental. "If you have tons of money to waste" - you might still be foolish to buy a chain conversion, n'est-il pas? Finally, I have to say, I might only have 5,000 miles on Buells, but I've never had a problem with a belt... | ||
| Newxb9er |
Uhhh, there is no need to replace it often? Uhh, no need to waste tons of money? Heck, I don't know, I'm just shooting from the hip here. | ||
| M1combat |
The belts are FAR cheaper than chains once you factor in the cost of the chain conversion and the parts. Also, chain sprockets get eaten at a rate far greater than belt pulleys. Belts are pretty close to the same price as chains, but they last a LOT longer as long as you're careful when installing them. I've only had to buy ONE belt in 15K miles. I used THREE tools to remove it. If I had a chain break on me (it DOES happen, although it's rare) I would have needed a new brace at the least if not a new swingarm. With a chain conversion I need a swingarm TO START... | ||
| Fullpower |
chain versus belt? really there is no contest. the chain requires lubrication and will get you there and will get you back home. the belt has no required maintenance and can fail at any time with absolutely no warning. pretty simple really. if you want a reliable motorcycle to ride far from home and late at night after all the Buell stores are closed, either run a chain drive, or...... have your wife follow with a van. oh you CAN change the belt at road side, i have done that, the nuisance was calling wife at 1130 saturday night, and having her fetch up the 7/8 ths end wrench, the 3/8ths breaker bar, the 5/16ths and 3/8ths allen sockets, half and 3/8ths torque wrenches, THE SERVICE MANUAL, and of course, most importantly the SPARE BELT hanging on the garage wall, then drive 360 miles to the gas station 16 miles from talkeetna ( Alaska) where i was waiting in a tent. | ||
| Saintly |
"The belts are FAR cheaper than chains once you factor in the cost of the chain conversion and the parts" If you are going to compare apples to something else, I would suggest that the else be apples also. If I was to compare costs, it would be of a belt, rear pulley, front pulley, and idler pulley vs. the chain and all sprockets. Besides, even with the cost of sprockets I think I'd be saving money rather than blowing $150 on a belt three times a year! For instance: A new Diamond brand 530 chain with 108 links costs me - $38.50 A new rear sprocket w/ 47, 48,49, or 51 teeth costs $34.90 in zinc or 43.90 for chrome. A front tranny sprocket in 18 thru 24 teeth is APPROX. (looked up for 5-spd sporty) $14.08 I'm sure I can find a bearing & sprocket to make into the idler for less than $56 and that would make my total LESS than the cost of ONE belt! | ||
| M1combat |
Well, I was going for the conversion systems sold by Hals and others. They are quite spendy. I'm sure you can cobble together a functional chain system for less and it'll probably work fine on the street. You'll want something adjustable for the track though and from my point of view that's really the only place a chain has a lot of merit over a belt. Diamond brand??? Getting back to apples to apples... lets use some quality components (like the ones that come with a Buell). A Tsubaki X-ring will run you about $80 at the least. A rear sprocket with that number of teeth (again, for a decent one...) will cost about $80-$95. A front sprocket... I was unable to find a good front sprocket from my supplier (sprocket specialists) so I'll use your price of $14. We still need an idler sprocket and bearings (high speed bearings are NOT cheap... We still need to buy the spring loaded tensioner from Hillbilly-Motors-Motors motors. Good luck saving money over belts. I had one break in 16K miles and that was landing a jump. I don't blame the belt. It already had a small hole in it and it lasted 3500 miles WITH the hole. It probably would have lasted until today but I landed a jump under power... I fully understand that there are certain benefits to having a chain... There are most certainly drawbacks as well. The only drawback to a belt is that it's pretty difficult to carry a spare (although not impossible...), and that it takes a few more minutes to swap it out if it breaks (although if a chain breaks it's likely that you AREN'T getting home... I had a chain break on an IT250 once... I haven't ridden the bike since because it DESTROYED the crank case cover on the left side...). I liked that bike... Frickin chain... I like my Buell. I also like how the rear rim ALWAYS glimmers in the sun. It wouldn't do that if it had grimy chain lube all over it. I like how I don't have to wait for the tension to be taken up in the chain when I get on the gas near the apex of a turn. I like the fact that my belt contributes a lot less un-sprung mass to my rear suspension system. I like the fact that I don't need to constantly change my wheelbase to keep my chain at the right tension and not smacking my swingarm brace (and if you'd REALLY like to use a "diomond brand" 530 chain, this'll be a very common thing and you'll eat sprockets because of it). How many people with chains bring a spare anyway? Anyway... Do what makes you feel good. There are benefits and drawbacks to both systems. (Message edited by m1combat on July 22, 2005) | ||
| Blake |
Pretty much in the same category as the last statement I quoted... "the belt has no required maintenance and can fail at any time with absolutely no warning. pretty simple really. if you want a reliable motorcycle to ride far from home and late at night after all the Buell stores are closed, either run a chain drive, or...... have your wife follow with a van." A belt can fail at any time? Of course there is some small grain of truth behind such inflammatory statements. Frankly I wouldn't ride much of anywhere away from home without a tool kit on any motorcycle. I've seen plenty of chains fail. Some people act like they magically repair themselves. I haven't seen that. Yes, on some of the tubers having to remove the right side isolator makes changing the belt a nightmare on the side of the road. Those belts typically last for 50,000+ miles. On the '03 XB's the belts were oversensitive to mishandling and had a disappointing advertised operational life of just 15,000 miles. But they were easy to change. Since '04 the belts have been greatly improved in their durability and are no longer oversensitive to mishandling and they are even easier to change. Every year since, Buell has worked in close cooperation with Good Year making significant improvements to the strength and durability of the drive belt. According to Erik Buell himself the belts for 2006 have achieved a major leap forward in improved durability and strength. They tolerate horrific amounts of damage, and are as strong as any motorcycle chain. If I were heading out on a motorcycle cross country via back roads and through isolated country I would have either a chain repair kit or a spare belt and of course in each case, the applicable tools required to effect repair. To report that "a belt can fail at any time" is simply not a meaningful statement. In truth a chain can fail at any time. An engine can fail at any time. Your heart can fail at any time. Not very helpful statements are they? Certainly not indicative of the experiences of most people. (Message edited by blake on July 22, 2005) | ||
| Saintly |
M1: Yeah, I see your point. I've priced the Trojan kit & the Hal's, but their not realistic for this blue collar's salary. If I was racing on a track and needed 4 rear sprockets & ratio changes from day-to-day & track-to-track then the trojan kit would be right up my alley. But, I'm not. I'm just trying to ride my bike wherever & whenever I want. In the year that I've owned my XB I've had quite a few upsetting moments, some were my fault ( I can be a real jackass sometimes ), but some were purely s***ty product. The most frustrating moments for me anyway were the times when I had to call upon friends to come bail me out at odd hours and such, two of these moments happen to be the two times that my belt bent me over. You find out real fast who your real friends are when you have to make that call to NY: " Hey Mike I'm broke down in Galax Virginia ..... yeah the Buell broke the belt again ..... no I didn't make it to Deals Gap, I'm just short of the North Carolina state line.... can you come and get me?" It makes a person a tad bitter. Not to mention the constant teasing from the Jap bike crowd when they find out on Monday morning how your 1-year-old Buell left you stranded yet again. I realize that there are guys all over this board who have gotten 2-3 times the belt life as I have, and who really love the belt. I'm not going to lie.... I'm jealous of them! I wish I had the same luck, but I don't. As a result, I dont trust belts! I'm in the process of changing to a chain system. I run Diamond chains on my "other" bikes and I do go thru two chains per season and a set of sprockets every other season. I'm ok with that, I put approx 14K miles per year on my bikes and have never had a chain related failure. I'll probably miss the "smoothness" and the "glimmering" that the belt provides, but FOR ME it will be a worthwhile trade-off. Oh, by the way when I take one of my chain driven bikes for a long ride, I DO bring along an extra chain, master link, & a chain breaker tool just in case. I haven't had to use it yet, but I'm prepared. Thanks for the input, F. St.Mire |
