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Ryker77
Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 08:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

BMW
NEW HP2
http://www.cmgonline.com/bikes/models/BMW/HP2/2006/studio/SmallP/HP2_rsr_sm.jpg

A very stripped-down GS.
You gotta love it when a market like the big dualies heats up in this fashion. In an obvious swipe at KTM, BMW have produced a limited-production, stripped-down, more powerful version of their R1200GS, designed specifically at the enduro end of the market, but still street-legal.

Designed by a bunch of off-road riders – and without the usual compromises associated with mass production – the HP2 rids itself of the servo-assisted, linked brakes of the standard GS and even dumps the Telelever front suspension, in favour of 45 mm USD jobbies.

The rear suspension unit is devoid of the usual spring and oil-damper, using just air (a perfect medium for suspension, as long as it doesn't get too hot, as its characteristics start to change at a certain point) to do both duties. The suspension unit is sealed and so is impenetrable to dust, mud and sand. It's also 2Kg lighter than the standard unit, with an adjuster to set the damping rates quickly between street and dirt.


More power, less weight.
The frame is lighter and all new, and sports a large 21-inch front wheel and a more standard sized 17” rear. The seat height is a rather gargantuan 920 mm (up 60 mm from the standard GS), but can be ordered with a 20 mm lower option.

The motor has seen a power boost to 105 hp (up 5hp), going so far as removing the balance shaft, for less weight and reduced sapping of power. Oh, and the intake snorkel is “splash-resistant” – which we're happy to hear about after our 'incident' with the 1200GS long-termer.

As a result, overall claimed dry weight of 175 kgs (386lbs), which is down about 24 kgs on the standard GS. The HP2 should be available in October of this year in very limited quantities, although we're not sure just how much it'll cost yet (should be announced in August).

Interestingly, the bike will be raced by a factory-supported private team in the German cross-country championship and the new Megamoto – created specifically for big-capacity twins after they were banned by the Dakar organizers for being too dangerous.


-------
Looks like the new Buell will have some proven bikes to compete with.
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Elff
Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 08:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Because that Motorcyclist had a Buell vs Kawa article I picked it up. I gotta saw, that BMW is pretty hot. It will be interesting to see the official stats on Saturday for the new Buell to see if they are a direct comparision.
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Steve_a
Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 09:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

The BMW HP2 will supposedly be available in very small quantities, and may sell for $20,000 or so. It's also being sold as an off-road rally machine, with no luggage available, for example -- though I'm sure the German aftermarket will see to that. It's as much a competitor to the Ulysses as Bimotas were to Japanese sportbikes. That is, a Bimota and a Yamaha open bike might make a nice comparison in a magazine, but the volume and price difference kept them very separate in the market. Also, in this case, the intent of the two are very different -- the BMW comes with DOT knobbies, something unlikely on an "Adventure Sportbike."
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Ryker77
Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 03:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

The HP2 is pretty much the same as the r1200gs.

I've owned a r1100sa. Nice bike. and the new r1200 are lighter and more power. But I dislike the price and numerous eletrical parts. I wonder if BMW bikes will suffer relabilty probs like new model BMW cars?

I really dig that new r1200rt.. Only if I get a long warranty and live near a good dealership. Till then I'll stick with my x1 with a carb!
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Yahooboy
Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 05:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

"I wonder if BMW bikes will suffer reliability probs like new model BMW cars? "

Yes, yes, absolutely! I've owned a 2004 BMW R1150R Rockster for a year, put 13000 miles on it and (believe it or not) a third of those miles was back and forth to the dealer to have warranty problems worked on. In fact they have it right now!

Since they've had it (going on four weeks now) I've bought an '03 XB9S and plan to sell the BMW just as fast as it comes back from the shop! Very disappointing experience with the Beemer. But it did motivate me to buy a lighter, quicker, and so-far more reliable machine. Couldn't be happier with the Buell! What a blast to ride!
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Blake
Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 05:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Whoa. What problems did you have with the big boxer? Since you were able to drive it, I guess they were nothing too serious?
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Peter
Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 01:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

The HP2 is pretty much the same as the r1200gs.

You really think so?


Pete2 Dakar
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Tbs_stunta
Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 08:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

>>The HP2 is pretty much the same as the r1200gs.

Sure it is, and the Buell is pretty much the same as a Sportster.
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Yahooboy
Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 11:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Blake,

Deep breath:

• The bodywork scratched itself and damaged the frame when the front suspension would travel. I had to have the oil cooler cover mounting hardware and the front telelever arm replaced.

• The fuel filter clogged and caused the tank to vacuum. It actually warped the tank.

• Lots of electrical problems with the lights and clock, etc.

• There was a weird stumble at 4500rpm. Turned out to be the oxygen sensor and the right side spark plug interfering with one another.

• It idles low, stumbles while idling and backfires. (still not solved...air leak?)

• The throttle bodies keep coming out of synch. They've been balanced three times in three months! The two cylinders run at VERY different temperatures and have discolored the pipes WAY differently from one another. (still not solved)

• It uses an unusual amount of oil, even for an oil head. Even after 13000 miles it still uses about a quart and a half every thousand miles. (still not solved)

• The dealer has done some of the work wrong causing me to make repeat trips for a couple of things.

I feel like I'm leaving something out...
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Ryker77
Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 11:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

wow,, just as I had guessed. My 99 BMW never had a problem with over 16k miles. It sucked in MPG less than 35. But the ride was smooth and braking was very controlled and smooth. But I guess I showed owe that to the 1500.00 olhins shocks.

I like a simple bike. Which is why my 2002 x1 is no longer fuel injected and very soon it will have a twintec ignition. NO fuel injection NO computer and NO sensors bullshit for me!
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Joojoo
Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 11:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I agree Ryker....

Simple = soul.

Jack
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Johnnylunchbox
Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 12:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Simple can equal soul, but don't discount technology.

Admittedly, the bike manufactures have yet to catch up to the automobiles in terms of technology.

Remember when cars had carbs. Remember when you had to pump the gas pedal, recite a prayer and turn the ignition key. Remember when it was -20 deg, and the darn thing wouldn't even humor you with a single ignition stroke. Remember, when you would brag to everyone that your car had reached the exalted 100,000 mile mark. Remember the oil leaks.

We take these things for granted nowadays. Even the cheapest Kia will reliably start in subzero weather, will run for well over 100,000 miles without batting an eye. It go from sea level to 15,000 feet without a stumble.

So eventually motorcycles will reach this plug and play seamlessness, but until then, we can't just discount the current technology as incapable of improvement.
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Davefla
Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 01:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Maybe when the Feds require 100,000 mile warranties on "emissions equipment" for bikes, as they did on cars?
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45_degrees
Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 01:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Simple can also mean high technology. It takes a great mind to come up with something that works just as well or better but less complex. I didn't think it was a big deal for old cars to go 100K. A lot of them 'ol cars have 2-300K on 'em. If you just keep up on the normal maintenance and oil changes, it's not at all a problem to get well over 200K or more. My old '65 Pontiac Bonneville has 285,000 miles on the original 421 V8, 4 speed trans and Safe-T-Track rear-end. A lot of those miles were in fast 1/4 mile increments. I think the new cars are designed to be more like appliances and to be thrown away after 100,000 miles. Very few of them have the 'soul' of the old cars.
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45_degrees
Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 01:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Ryker... I too like carbs on motorcycles better.
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Eor
Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 01:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Keeping the throttle bodies synch'ed on a Boxer must be a black art... seems to come up frequently as an annoyance.
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Davefla
Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 02:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

'Soul' is very hard to define (though my personal definition has plenty of room for a 421-powered Bonnie!)

I'm just saying, I think a whole bunch of kids with tuner cars probably just wrote off your opinion... and I can't say that they're right or wrong.

For myself, I can only say that soul or not, I'm in no hurry to go back to carburetors. I can't wait for 2007, when I plan to buy one of these little Caddie CTS jobs used, maybe with 80,000 already on it. After all, by then my 1993 pickup should have 225,000 miles on the original, injected drivetrain. I'll need to save it for occasional hauling jobs!
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Ryker77
Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 02:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Lets get real. How many HD cv carb bikes from 1992 till now have had Zero problems? I never had an issue with my 92 Sportster. That bike started on first lick. My 98 S1w was the same. My fancy pancy 99 BMW was never as smooth starting, low speed surge, and less fuel milage as the old 92 sportster.

For the average weekend and warm weather bike rider a simple, cheap, and PROVEN carb is the way to go. If you live near a dealership, have lots of money or a warranty then great. You can enjoy not having to turn the fuel on or pull a choke. I'd rather burn the 0.5 calories of energy and turn the fuel on and pull the choke then to have to waste time and money chasing faulty sensors.
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Bomber
Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 02:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

simple can be good, strooth

me, I don't miss points, perhaps a set per cylinder, condensors, ditto, not spark plugs that don't after 500 miles

that said, I'd LOVE that Bonnie in my motorpool ;-}
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45_degrees
Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 02:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Dave, Is it a CTS-V? Those are really cool.

Yes, everyone has their own opinion... but those rice burners are just plain boring and ugly to me. But, I have to add, I never said the newer stuff doesn't last a long time... they're just more "appliance" like. Something to get you from point A to B. No emotion. You know, very few cars nowadays give you that connected feeling, like man and machine. Or motorcycles for that matter (Buells give you that man and machine working together feeling). The new stuff just seems so videogame-like to me. It's like they're trying to get rid of all the character and "rawness" of the machine.

BTW- I think Buell wins supremely. Germans used to steal our bikes in WW2 because our bikes were better back then too.

I'll bet when a lot of those tuner kids get a chance to try a real V8 powered car, they have a difficult time going back to lilliputian sized torque.

Yes, I agree again Ryker. Carbs are way smoother and easy.
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45_degrees
Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 02:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I do like pointless ignition. Don't get me wrong on that.

Edit- That's one of the upgrades on my Bonnie.

(Message edited by 45_degrees on July 22, 2005)
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Davefla
Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 02:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

CTS-V? Only if I'm lucky! The base V6 models from three years ago are just starting to break the $20k price point, so maybe there will be a CTS-V for $25k floating around in 2007. I really hope not, given what that would mean about resale value on that car ($57k MSRP?)

BTW, that model's surely a point of agreement between us- I don't think ANYONE would claim that stuffing that V8 in makes for a soulless car!
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45_degrees
Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 02:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Agreed.
I wish I could afford the new Z06! LS7!!
I need to budget for a LS7 crate engine to put in my project car.
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Elff
Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 04:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Carbs are cool and simple for certain applications but not having to mess with them or valves is also nice.

In 4wheeling, some of the stuff we do starves the carbs because we are at such an angle that the float bowls empty out.

So Fuel Injection works out nice there.

I used to have a 1972 240Z. That was a weekly 10 minute job to keep the carbs in sync but it was worth it.
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