| Author | Message | ||
     Coldwthrrider |
Alright, I was feeling pretty mad and stupid until I found on here that I'm not the only one who's done this. That doesn't make this any easier, I can't wait to try out those new Diablos. I got my tires/wheels back from being mounted and was putting them on. The removal was pretty quick and painless, my first time. I didn't have any anti-seize so I figured I'd just put them back for now, I need to tear down the forks soon for 10k mile rebuild anyway and I need the rear wheel balanced (another issue). When putting the rear axle in, it was turning nice and easy while tightening up the belt and then bam, it was stuck. It wouldn't loosen at that point either, not at all. I had to stand on the large socket and bang it a bunch before it started to turn CCW.....but after about a half turn it just came loose and I realized the other end wasn't turning anymore, the axle broke in the middle. I had to hacksaw it off on the left side to get the wheel out so now I'm stuck with a stub embedded in the swingarm threads. I'm worried these are the threads that were seized in the first place so how the heck are am I supposed to get this out without wrecking the swingarm??? It might be time to buy some anti-seize. Thepup, how did you cut yours into little pieces?    | ||
| Thepup |
Cold,looks just like mine.I took a sawzall and cut the axle into pieces then I carefully pried each one out.It took about 2 days.The threads were messed up in a few spots ,but there are a lot of threads there.I used a brass brush and cleaned the threads out,then I took the new axle and oiled it up and the threads and I threaded the axle in.I did it a little at a time taking turns going from both sides.You are going to put some grooves in the threads,nothing you can do about it.Don't worry though it will still work. | ||
| Coldwthrrider |
I guess I'm not surprised about the time since it took me about an hour to get the wheel out. Thanks for the info, after what I've done I'm leery to start experimenting more so it's good to know that the bits 'n pieces method works. | ||
| Thepup |
An easy out will not work,it just expands the axle into the threads. | ||
| Onebuell |
ouch that looks like &^%$ ! buell sure uses a cheap axle then. I will be careful when time for tire. thanks | ||
| Coldwthrrider |
Yeah, it is a cheap axle, seemed really soft. I had a dull hacksaw blade and it cut through it like butter. | ||
| Ingemar |
You know what's cheap? Not using antiseize. Whoever assembled it should have used it. The axles is hollow and made lightweight. I wouldn't call it cheap... | ||
| Wizard1000 |
you must have had a 6' pole on the end of the ratchet to twist the axel like that. Man that would taken some force. | ||
| Blake |
No WD40 either? Penetrant even after initial stickage would likely have prevented that catastrophe. | ||
| Court |
I suspect the Indian, not the arrow. | ||
| Cataract2 |
Agreed, that had to be some serious force to twist it like that. My bearing was froze to the axle and I got it off with some minor problems (and choice words). You torqued that sucker. | ||
| Dago |
$h1t happens. I sheered mine in a more convenient place. Two pipe wrenches did the trick for me. - The Original Fumb Duck | ||
| Coldwthrrider |
The first thing I did was put on some WD40, the only lubricant I had around. The tool I used was a 12" long Craftsman 1/2" ratchet with 7/8" socket on the axle tool. I jumped on it and I'm only 150lb, then took some whacks at it with a pipe wrench at the end of the ratchet. No cheater bar required. In all my bikes and tire replacements I haven't seen something that needed anti-seize so I don't have any (yet) and have never had an issue like this. When they say different in every sense they really mean it! Yes Court, I agree. Tools don't ruin bikes, people ruin bikes. I should listen to the shop manual better. Except that it told me to use a metric hex on the front axle pinch bolts so I did and started to strip them when loosening. Then I checked and sure enough, they're exactly 1/4" hex. It's no the bible, just a good reference but I will listen to the anti-seize gospel from now on. | ||
| Buellman39 |
One word when putting it back together ANTISEIZE | ||
| Onebuell |
OK I think the cold guy learned a lesson for all of us Fuell Framers. Ha ha ha I like that one. Fuell framer..... ha ha ha I'll be laffing about that one down the road today... some say lightweight and not cheap as description of an an axle that snaps clean in half I say CHEAPO metal. COME ON ERIC ! build em so they hold up... | ||
| Xb9ser |
Not a cheap part per say had mine off three times so far allways used antiseise. But if you figure out the torque of a 150 lb jumping on 12" ratchet it is not surprising it broke. | ||
| M1combat |
Cheap??? Mine works fine. I've swapped my tires at least four times now... No anti-sieze for the first three  . | ||
| Cataract2 |
I jumped on it and I'm only 150lb, then took some whacks at it with a pipe wrench at the end of the ratchet Your 150lbs changes a lot when you jump on something. That 150lbs goes up with just that bit of speed. I don't have the physics on it in front of me though so I couldn't tell you what your force might have been. | ||
| T9r |
Cataract2... it's always good to start with a FBD (free body diagram). 12in x 150 lbs = 1800 in lbs or 150 ft lbs at the bolt. 150 ft lbs = 203 Nm. · Max torque exerted by a small Lego motor: 0.1 Nm · Typical torque output of a typical car engine 300-600 Nm · Breaking torque of a human femur: 140Nm | ||
| Cataract2 |
Thanks T9r. | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
I would suggest at this point, taking the swingarm off, and taking it to a welding shop. They might be able to weld a plug you can get vice grips onto to the inside of the threaded part left in the swingarm. Then take it home, and lightly heat the swingarm around the threads and try backing it out once its heated up. IF you end up screwing up the threaded end enough, drop me an email, I have a scuffed up swing arm that could be easily cleaned up and repainted that could be used and I could part with it for a decent price. | ||
| Blake |
TR9, I think what Cataract's point was, and I agree with it, is that the jumping action in effect multiplies the 150 LB weight. The wrench could have easily seen 300 LBs of force due to the effect of jumping on it versus gingerly stepping on it. | ||
| Nadz |
Not to hammer on the "cheap" comment, but I see some twisting action before the shear. Necking is a sign of ductility. That's why they don't make axles out of CF- it shatters! | ||
| T9r |
Blake, I too agree that the nut would of seen more than 150 lbs. That calc. would be his weight multiplied by the acceleration at which he landed on the wrench. Throw in some gravity and boom ya got a bent and broken axle~ I'd say that axle is strong based on the fact of it twisting before it sheered off. Most of the bolts I've seen break off sheer pretty smoothly. Very interesting and none the less a shame that it happened. | ||
| Coldwthrrider |
To clarify, it was not so much of a jump as a bouncing on the ratchet. My foot never left the ratchet because I would have probably slipped and I can tolerate a broken axle but not a broken ankle. Either way, it's a lot of torque, not enough to break free the stuck threads but obviously enough to twist the axle and eventually break it. It seems cheap for major torquing like this but in reality it's "engineered" to have enough strength for what it does. Have any of them broken during normal operation, probably not. The axle needs to be strong in shear but not in tension so it's probably sufficient. DaveS is sending me a new one and I bought some anti-seize last night | ||
| Hkwan |
Just a quick question off of this post - why is the reverse thread being used for the front? | ||
| Fullpower |
righty tighty, lefty loosey. except at the front axle, where it threads in from the left side of bike. so normal wheel rotation goes in the direction of a TIGHTENING axle. so if a wheel bearing is approaching seizure, the resultant torque will not back the axle out. got that?? | ||
| Fullpower |
cold: this would be a MOST EXCELLENT time to remove the swingarm, and have a competent machinist install an oil sight glass. would be the coolest. | ||
| Blake |
Bouncing, jumping... same effect. Significant multiplication of load. | ||
| Coldwthrrider |
FP: that's a great idea but I don' think so. It reminds me of a cow here at the university where they put a glass window in the side of it so you could see into one of its stomachs. Cool but unnecessary! | ||
| Kcirttap |
that is the sickest story i have heard come from these forums, the pictures make my stomach turn. why you didn't take the time and few dollars to buy antisieze to begin with is beyond me. feeling the axle is aluminum before putting it and then exerting so much force on your wrench as to snap it like that. maybe you should invest in a dead blow hammer while your at it. you would be suprised what a little smack with a dead blow would do. good luck with the repairs. | ||
| Dbird29 |
I think that goes in the category "•••• happens" How could Coldwthrrider be faulted for trying too hard? His bike , His •••• up. It'll go back together. (with new parts) | ||
| Surveyor |
Can copper grease be used as anti seize? |
