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Macbuell
Posted on Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 10:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I have my 10,000 mile service coming up and I want to change out my spark plugs. What is everyone running and what would you recommend? The NGK Plugs? Didn't Buell used to offer high performance spark plugs for the XB's? DO they still offer those and are they any good? Thanks for the help.
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Tpoppa
Posted on Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 10:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

My bike ran great with the stock plugs, so that is what I used at 10k.

BTW, changing to the rear plug is a huge PITA.
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Cataract2
Posted on Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 11:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Buell still offers the Pro Series Performance Plugs.

Link

I just installed mine for my 10K service. Figured I'd give them a shot and see how they do. Recommend when you replace your plugs you get some plug grease. Help keep them from freezing in the hole. Makes removal easy.
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Bbstacker
Posted on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 12:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

You mean like anti-sieze compound? Or dielectric silicone inside the plug boots?
See "Pop-n-fart" for my reason for asking.

(Message edited by Bbstacker on June 17, 2005)
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Cataract2
Posted on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 12:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Yeah, anti-sieze compound or something like that. Just go into an auto parts store and ask for a spark plug anti-sieze stuff. They can get it for you.
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Bbstacker
Posted on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 12:19 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Right on.. Thanx
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Izzinya
Posted on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 02:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

DO NOT i repeat DO NOT

use SILVER anti seize

the injection system (at least on h-d ) uses ion senceing

witch , sends a unuseable volt to ground (dont remember exactily what voltage)
to read combustion

the silver anti seize CAN (not will!!)
keep that voltage from reaching ground
and send a trouble code to say

=== cyl. misfire
witch may not be true...
so use copper ant-iseize

i do believe (and i may be wrong) ddfi
works much the same way

i can look in my notes
(and i remember this from the buell school)

my class in buell school was talking about all kinds of injection

magneti, ddfi, and the delfi systems

just to be on the safe side again

use copper anti-seize ...... for your techs sake LOL

Izzinya
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Bbstacker
Posted on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 02:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

God, I love this place. So much useful information from credible sources.
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Cataract2
Posted on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 07:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Hmm... Bit late for that now. I used the silver stuff. No code though and it was firing just fine.

Stuff also said it could be used on spark plugs so...

(Message edited by cataract2 on June 17, 2005)
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Phantom5oh
Posted on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 09:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Check out the new plugs offered by Brisk at http://www.briskplugs.com/main.aspx I'm not sure if they make them for the Buells, but they seem to be great plugs. They are the plugs that Lamborghini uses in all their cars, and independent dyno testing shows a power and torque gain over factory replacement plugs in Mustangs.
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Elyaswolffxb9s
Posted on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 05:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Their site has a cross reference for NGK #s and they make some that will work.
A pretty funky desigh tho.
So who wants to bite the bullet and try it out
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Fullpower
Posted on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 06:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

sorry phantom, but did lamborghini recently begin production of a long stroke fuel injected air cooled engine?
the job of the spark plug is essentially to allow electrons to leap across a strategicly located gap in the vicinity of your engines exhaust valve. the convenience of packaging them inside a threaded fastener, while being a real boon for regular maintenance, also has the side benefit of making a regular conversation topic. this is all good. while considering claims of horsepower gains attributed to brand and style of spark plug, always ask the reverse question; will a NEW OEM spark plug REDUCE the brake specific power output? is a forest fire caused by a bolt of lightning at around half a million degrees harder to put out than one caused by a cigarette butt? does the air fuel mixture crowded into the top of your Buell cylinder really care if NGK,Autolite, or Champion is plugging up that little hole just above the .035 spark gap?
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M1combat
Posted on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 06:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

FP -

If a spark could choose from 360 different degrees in which to fire... How would it choose?

Would it choose the direction that had the most turbulence? Would it choose the direction that had the most fuel particles? Would it choose the direction that had the least fuel particles? Would it choose the direction that was warm or cold?

I don't know the answers, but I'm curious. Maybe the spark would choose the direction because there's more fuel in that direction. Therefor, maybe it would have a better more powerful point of ignition?

Who knows...

For the record, I don't have a set of these, but if independent dyno results (assuming they are done with the scientific method in practice) confirm a HP gain... Why not buy them?
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Xbolt12
Posted on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 03:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

NGK Iridiums should:

1: Last longer because of the Iridium.
2: Be less likely to foul because of the finer electrode.
3: Ping less if you use a 9 heat range (cooler) and still not foul because of number 2 above.

I doubt there is any noticeable difference in power, it's just that with xb plugs being a royal pain to replace, I figure that the the $14 spent on the Iridiums is a bargain and I can leave them in longer.
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Starter
Posted on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 06:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Try these, they are the latest and greatest performance mod going around

http://www.greenfire.com.au/
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Phantom5oh
Posted on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 11:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Fullpower,
Ignition is ignition no matter how you cut it. It's the same basic principal in a long stroke air cooled engine or a short stroke liquid cooled engine. Air cooled engines have higher nominal combustion chamber temperatures which makes for easier ignition, but high compression is harder to ignite. A trade-off, that I'm not about to try and quantify here.

Being the stock spark plug in Lamborghini is a testament to quality and performance. Brisk is proud to display their accomplishment because a leading performance manufacturer, like Lamborghini, can't use inferior parts. Someone paying 1/4 million for a car wants it to work!

If you drop a lit cigarette into a dry forest, and you'll wait 10 minutes before the leaves start to smoke, let alone catch fire. Hit that same forest with a bolt of lightening and the surrounding trees will be ablaze! Which would you rather have starting the combustion in your chamber, a wimpy cigarette, or a bolt of lightening?

Did you look at the Brisk plugs before you shot them down? They are a 360 degree style plug, which offers new technology, which many manufacturers are starting to use. The compressed gas in a combustion chamber doesn't care what brand of plug you run, but the size of the spark and the heat generated DO matter. A hotter spark, just like a lightening bolt will create a more intense ignition and thus more powerful combustion.

Like M1combat said, if the testing was legit, and the plugs showed a performance gain over stock, what do you have to lose by trying them? I haven't tried them yet, but I probably will at some point.
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Fullpower
Posted on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 01:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

phantom: good point about ignition delay period.
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Izzinya
Posted on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 03:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

A hotter spark, just like a lightening bolt will create a more intense ignition and thus more powerful combustion.


can also cause pinging if too hot...

hotter is not always better

not knocking the post or plugs

but just a bit of food for thaught

izzinya
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Xbolt12
Posted on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 04:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Hotter heat range refers to the plugs temperature, not how good or hot the spark is. For example in the old days 20,000 volts was about normal for a spark, but savy people would add capacitive discharge or electronic ignition for closer to 40,000 - 50,000 volts. This did not contribute to pinging which is pre-ignition caused by hot spots (glowing) causing the fuel-air mixture to fire under compression, but before the plugs fire. Hotter plugs simply mean a plug that holds in more combustion heat.
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Phantom5oh
Posted on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 10:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Thank you Xbolt12, you took the words out of my fingers. A more potent spark does not necessarily mean pinging, a higher heat range plug on the other hand is a different story.
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Hans
Posted on Tuesday, June 21, 2005 - 05:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

"A hotter spark, just like a lightening bolt will create a more intense ignition and thus more powerful" combustion.
I think not.
The energy from the combustion is so much higher than the energy from the spark, that the last doesn`t matter at all.
But I take it as a fact that a weaker spark gives a delay which is NOT unimportant.
I tried once a kind of super plugs in a car: The ignition looked way off: Much too early. The engine ran very badly and could almost not to be started. Controlling the ignition angle: Exactly right. Old plugs in: Smooth as ever again.
I think that the ignition was just setting in faster, than with the normal plugs.
The example of the forest set a fire, with, or a match or a lightning, is a good example.
Just that delay.
But being that true: You can indeed do harm to your engine by plugs which bring the combustion faster on its top: It has the same effect of setting the ignition too early and that will give pinging and a much hotter engine.
Hans}
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Glitch
Posted on Tuesday, June 21, 2005 - 07:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Would it choose the direction that...
Like all things, when given a choice, anything will take the path of least resistance.
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Djkaplan
Posted on Tuesday, June 21, 2005 - 08:45 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

If you drop a lit cigarette into a dry forest, and you'll wait 10 minutes before the leaves start to smoke, let alone catch fire. Hit that same forest with a bolt of lightening and the surrounding trees will be ablaze! Which would you rather have starting the combustion in your chamber, a wimpy cigarette, or a bolt of lightening?

This isn't a very good analogy. Too hot a spark in a combustion chamber doesn't mean more power or "intense combustion" and will just wear out spark plug electrodes quickly.
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Fullpower
Posted on Tuesday, June 21, 2005 - 01:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

for a reference point: my OEM spark plugs, the HD model # 10R12A went 10,000 miles with no trouble, pulled them out to change, and they looked just as clean and nearly the same color as the fresh pair out of the box. obviously we are running a tad bit lean here, but the bike now has 14,000 miles and has not melted any critical parts yet.
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Gentleman_jon
Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 06:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Does anyone have the part number for NGK or Denso Iridium sparkplugs for the XB9?
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Daves
Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 07:06 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I have Densos in stock
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Skully
Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 08:19 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Like all things, when given a choice, anything will take the path of least resistance.

<LOL> I wish this were true for my 21 year old.

Keith
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Elyaswolffxb9s
Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 07:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Gentleman_jon:
See my last thread about which NGK iridiums to use.
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M1combat
Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 07:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

"Like all things, when given a choice, anything will take the path of least resistance."

Understood...

I was asking which path is the path of least resistance as far as a spark is concerned in that environment...

MY guess in this case is that it would be the path that has the greatest number of conductive molecules. Therefore... The benefit of a plug that has 360 degrees to choose from might be that within that 360 degrees it has a better chance of finding a path of lower resistance compared to a plug which only offers a small area where the spark can start or stop...

(Message edited by m1combat on June 22, 2005)
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Gentleman_jon
Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 07:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Thanks Elyas, I took the easy way out:-)
I ordered the Denso's from Daves.
Thanks for the info, though.
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