| Author | Message | ||
     Crazy_z |
I just had the TPS reset because of the race ecm and K & N. After they reset the TPS, I have been having a hard time starting the bike. It takes 3-4 times before it stays running. It also surges until it is fully warmed up. It is fine when it is fully warmed up. Anyone else have this problem? | ||
| Redtail69 |
I'm experiencing something similar. Like you I also have the race ECM and air filter. My bike starts up right away however the idling is very erratic for a while after starting it. Eventually after I have ridden her a bit it settles down. Interestingly though I've also noticed that if I turn off the bike after going for a ride and then restart the bike, the idling will go back to being erratic and at lower rpms in spite of the fact that the bike is certainly still hot. Go figure? Anybody got any clues? | ||
| Ghost_buell |
Not to ask a dumb question...but did you guys remove the snorkel from the air box? Also what is your idle speed set at? I have the ECM, K&N & Race exhaust installed on my City-X.....I don't have the problems you guys are having. I do however notice that the bike runs much better after I make sure it’s warmed up for at least 2 minutes. As an added step I also changed the stock plugs out for the Buell Pro series spark plugs part number 32822-01Y, plug number HDB12P. I noticed an immediate change in startup, idling and running.....great improvement. I don't know if this helps you any but it’s my 2 cents. | ||
| Lovematt |
I had my idle a little low a while back and actually had to give it a little gas to get it to start good. I set the idle so that it is just above 1000 RPMs (low end of the dancing range just kisses 1000) and have not had a problem starting and the idle is steady. I would also check your plug wires...today I changed plugs and wires and on one of the wires the frieking metal connector was still on the plug! That explains a missing problem I was starting to notice. The new plug wires I got were much beefier and should hold up better....they are also angled to keep the chafing to a minimum. | ||
| Redtail69 |
Well I had my idle set so that it sets at a little bit above 1000rpm when she's warmed up. However, what puzzles me is why the idle speed drops even after she is warm and you turn her off for a moment. My bike is barely broken in. Maybe I'd better check into those spark plugs. | ||
| Ghost_buell |
You might want to check your oil level also..... | ||
| The_izzl |
I have the same problem and it started with the race ecm. This has been the case with just about everyone else that I have spoken with that has gone to the Buell race ecm, K&N, and D&D pipe. Odly enough it only happens to the 12's though, I have never heard of the 9's having this problem. Just out of curiosity, have you guys been having trouble with your bike being slow to return to idle when you back off the throttle once it is at normal operating temp? | ||
| Cataract2 |
Red, does the idle hang when you get off the throttle? | ||
| Redtail69 |
Cataract, When she is cold, the idling is rather erratic until I ride her for a bit. Then it stabilizes. But if I stop at the gas station let's say, when I restart her the idling will waver again wildly sometimes to the point she will almost stall. This happens until I ride her again for a bit. I notice this is more apparent when it is warm weather. | ||
| Kaese |
Maybe an air leak somewhere? | ||
| Deerhunter17 |
I have been having similiar probs. In my case, it was short runs. I only work about a mile from the house. If I run directly from the house to the shop, then back that eve, the next day, the bike is almost imposible to start. If I let it warm up for at least two mins, and then take it on a 4 or 5 mile sprint each way, I have little to no problem the next run. I have had rough idle, spit and pop, just down right awful drivability at times, after I changed the plugs, cleaned and oiled the K&N, and re installed the snork, it was the smoothest it has ever been. Yet, the next morn, back to the same. Just have to let it warm up, and run it a bit. | ||
| Redxb |
The word I got from a Buell tech was ' the XB'S are very cold blooded and need to warm up for 5-6 minutes" This was after a TPS reset ... bike rode home smoothly but the next day wouldnt start, idle and ran like CR@P . Ever since then let it fully warm up, only problem I had was after riding Cherahola Skyway the ECM was confused and she didnt want to go but it fired and back up the mountain. Current Set up: Idle @1050, race ECM, K&N, Drummer, Desnorkled, Amsoil and changing over to Denso's. | ||
| Yohinan |
The_izzl, I have the same exact symptoms as you. Sometimes I have to restart as many as 6 times. Also when letting off the go stick after stoping for a light or stop sign or whatever else, my idle takes a while to go back down and then at times it wont go back to idle unless I drop it in gear and let the clutch out some to bring the RPM's back down. I have the K&N, Race ECM, and D&D. Yes the snorkle is gone and the TPS has been reset. It's rather annoying. John | ||
| Crazy_z |
I guess I am not the only person with these problems. Is the Buell Race ECM the problem????? I would hate to go back to the stock ECM. I don't think that it would allow enough gas. I have to take my bike for the 1000 mile checkup in the next week or two and I will try to address these issues with the Buell tech. I will let everyone know what I find out. Thanks | ||
| Redtail69 |
I just came back from a ride up in the Oakland hills. I warmed her up nicely before I took off and then increased the idle speed until needle was hitting just a hair above 1000 on lowest point of needle dance. Rode for a while and pulled over to check on idling. It was a bit better except that now it is probably at 1150-12. Turned her off waited for fan to stop and restarted bike. Idle was back at 1000 but within 30 secs it went back up to 1150-12. At least this time she did not stall. I don't know what to make of this idling enigma. The ride was great though. Man I love this bike!! The power is just awesome. I just wish I could get this f&*!ing idling problem which I did not have until just a few miles ago resolved. You know this is another example of how analog technology is sometimes a lot better. I don't think we would have this problem if we had carbs instead of fuel injection. | ||
| Yeags30 |
I'm running the same set up as you guys...race ecm, k&n, no snorkle,D&D pipe and i have a 12 airbox. It was running strange so i pulled the stock plus out...They were a bit black but nothing major. I got the buell pro series one and it seemed to fix the problem. Mine sometimes takes 2 tries to get her running. It sits in a cold garage at night and i know that has somethingto do with it. When its warm outside i don't have a problem. I'm told that with the D&D the bike might run a bit rich?? It was hesitating at about 4 grand for awhile but after i ran the bike at 110mph for a few hrs it cleared everything out  I do a lot of stop and go driving so i feel some things might get gummed up. Try running the snot out of the bike and see if it helps. This may be a sily question but do our bikes have fuel filters?? I haven't gone through the repair manual totally yet. I'll see what i can find | ||
| Kaese |
I have the Race ECM, K&N, Drummer, no snorkel and a 12 airbox. Last time I changed plugs, it would sputter after it got hot just short of the fan coming on. It was hard starting unless I gave it some throttle. Found a plug that had backed out 1/4 turn. Solved my problems after retightening. Leads me to believe that the plugs are sensitive and may be the culprit in this thread. | ||
| Redtail69 |
Speaking of plugs, Is it difficult to get to them?  I'm used to more visible plug wires such as those found in the Japanese bikes. | ||
| The_izzl |
Yohinan- I took my bike to three shops in SD CA with a different diagnosis every time until finally one tech thought that it was an intake leak, he worked his magic and problem went away. Now I am having a problem with the bike surging at about two to three grand ( talk about fun) and then sputtering and dying. I had enough of that and went out to MMI to talk to the Buell instructor. He thinks it is an engine temp sensor so we will see. Now all I have to do is find a trustworthy tech in the Bay Area. | ||
| Kaese |
I bought mine at McGuires and the Buell mech said he owned one. I never had any service done there because they run their service department like a Harley Shop (next appointment in 2 weeks-if you are lucky) | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
The XB is not "Cold blooded and needs to warm up for 5-6mins". It is a sign of something not being right. Redtail yours leads me to beleive it is a faulty head temp sensor or an intake leak. More the intake leak with the way your idle is acting. The only time my bike ran like that I had an intake leak. Once it was fixed it was no problem, and that was running the bike in 32° weather at 3am. Izzle, your in the bay area, had your bike serviced in 3 different san diego shops and decided to bring it to phoenix for a Buell instuctor to give you a diagnosis? Interesting. BTW, those of you having starting issues, you are not giving the bike ANY throttle when starting it correct? These are fuel injected engines, they are not like carbed bikes where you have to tickle them a little to get the fuel flowing. (Message edited by wyckedflesh on May 04, 2005) | ||
| Redtail69 |
Wycked, Your evaluation of my problem sounds pretty plausible. 3 days ago the weather was a lot milder than it has been here in Oakland and that combined with the high heat radiating from the engine is probably not being read right by the heat temp sensor. On the other hand the snorkel was removed and the air filter changed. Could that produce an intake leak? | ||
| BadS1 |
Test for a leak.Take a can of WD-40 and spray around the intake manifold.If it hesitates and idles like its gonna stall right away you have a leak.You might want to do this while your bike is warmed up and idling at its best first. | ||
| Kaese |
I have had my air horn off a few times, found it was easier to replace the plugs and wires by removing the coil. I am not convinced there is a good seal between the air horn and the throttle body. Oil blow-by from the umbrella valves don't help much detecting leaks by throwing that oil puke back down the intake. There must be a better way. The Aussie Buell Riders, in my opinion, have the right idea by eliminating the air horn venturi on the 9's. I believe the engine can tke all the air that one can cram down it. Do an experiment by putting the snorkel back in and take it for a spin. I found that the engine did not rev as fast by restricting the amount of air allowed through the snorkel. Take it for a spin with the air horn removed, you will see what I mean. | ||
| Deerhunter17 |
I followed the manual and replaced my plugs last week. I don't know about the rest of you, but my rather large fingers are not Buell friendly. I had a #ell of a time replacing the front plug. I was afraid of cross threading, It was not a comfortable feeling trying to spin that thing with the index fingers of both hands squeezed up in there. The rear was a piece of cake, the more direct line of sight made it easy to install. I used the 3/8 hose like the book says. | ||
| Lovematt |
I have found taking both the left side air scoop off and taking off the air box base made getting to the plugs much easier. The front plug I can get to by turning the bars a bit so I can sit with one leg behind the front wheel and the other by the kickstand to take it out. Putting it back in I actually am on the other side of the bike with the bars turned towards me and "blind" thread it in by hand...no way to cross thread it seriously and my hand "fits better" that way. I use both hands to put the plug wires back on reaching above and below...using tight fitting rubber gloves makes a bit difference. On the back, taking the air box base allows a universal joint "extension" to pass through and get at the plug. One it is almost out I take off the socket and take a thick fuel hose about a foot long and use that to unthread it all the way and pull it out of there. I use that same hose to start threading it back in and then the universal. Again putting the plug wires back on I use both hands with one over and one under. I really wish I didn't have to pull the air box base out or even just to twist it at all...don't like messing with the velocity stack and seal. I think I will take another look at it the next time and see if there is a way to cut/plug it to make room...hmmm...just changed plugs so I have som thinking time on that one. | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
Could that produce an intake leak? That isn't the issue of what caused the intake leak, its simply a matter of the intake no longer having a good seal to the head, or in the case of an older 9 the throttlebody developing a leak between it and the intake manifold. The manifold cooling at a faster rate then the head, or vice versa, there are many things that can cause an intake leak, and none of them have to be related to anything you may or may not have done. Oil blow-by from the umbrella valves don't help much detecting leaks by throwing that oil puke back down the intake. If your getting that much blowby, then I would suggest doing a leakdown test. Unless your running a trackday or actually racing, there is no reason you should be getting that much oil unless you have excessive blow by past the rings. The XB breathers are placed high enough to be out of the oilbath issue the tubers had. Now, my next question to you is this, are you certain the oil your finding in the intake is due to the breathers? or could it be from your K&N filter? Soemthing to think about. Think about it, you are putting an "oiled airfilter" into the intake tract, are you positive that the oil isn't from the K&N. A good test would be to clean the airbox, then swap to the stock filter and go for a good ride. If you find oil then its likely to be from the breathers and means you should see my above comment, but if its dry, then its probably a good bet its your K&N oil misting in the intake air and coating the airbox. | ||
| Kaese |
I am pretty sure that the oil is coming from the umbrella valves just by the dirty color. The K&N oil is a red color. | ||
| Yeags30 |
i'm starting to have the same problem. Does anyone else think that its the D&D?? I never had this problem until i put the new pipe on. It was never hard to start and now its startting to stall once and awhile. The bike seems fine once its warmed up but it was always quick to fire. Now i have to crank it a few times before it starts | ||
| Crazy_z |
When I had the stock ecm and stock filter on, it ran fine. I have the tps reset, race ecm installed and the K & N put in, instant problems. I wonder if it is the race ecm? Maybe I should have bought the TFI? | ||
| Rmp |
I have the same problem you all have described. Ran fine with the stock ECM and factory race pipe. Changed to the race ECM and the troubles started. TFI is probably the best way to go IMHO. Rob | ||
| Deerhunter17 |
As for mine (04 12r, K&N, Drummer, Race ECM, drilled A/B, AND REMOVED the snorkel again), I just changed the plugs last week. Ran great! Then the next day, it started that trouble again, not real bad, but noticeable. Anyhow, tonight, I pulled the plugs again, and the front one was black, the rear not so bad. I read in the manual that too much idling can cause the rich condition. So I am wondering if it is a matter of letting it idle too long to warm up. SO, I replaced the plugs, drilled a few more holes on the A/B cover, pushed the bike outside. I let it sit until I was ready to leave, started it, let it run about 30 seconds, then took off. I went out and got right onto the Highway, and let her fly.Dang she was smooth. There is a definite diff when the plugs are clean. I'm heading out in the mornin' to hit my 3 day 900+ mile trip, so I hope to see how it holds up. Oh, and pulling the plugs for the second time in a week, gets a lot easier | ||
| BadS1 |
Man I wish I could help some of you guys out.My bike has been always just fine,until I got back from Daytona this year.I started having the same problem.It ran fine when warmed up,but then again it was only idling at about 1000 rpm's.So what I did is took off the air box lid.Not the actual air box lid (the body work) then went for a ride say 10 miles to get it good and hot came back while the bike was idling still I readjusted the idle to where the bike needs to be and bada bing bada boom its just like its suppose to be. | ||
| Deerhunter17 |
I installed a set of Autolite's, had to buy the box of 4, cost $11.50. I have been paying attention to the amount of time I let it warm up, and after 3 days and 1100 miles, ranging from 40 degrees when we left, to over 80 today, in heavy traffic, with multiple fuel stops, and various starts and stops... no problems. I believe the idle time is critical. I have been avoiding long warm ups, about 30 sec's to one min tops, and minimal short runs. I believe the race ecm pours a lot more fuel into the thing, and it has a tendency to run rich, and while cold, can build some carbon on the plugs, if you don't burn it off, you get this start prob, at least that that is what I've noticed. | ||
| Xb9r43 |
I had te Buell race kit installed and TPS reset the engine starts easily at any temp. with no idle problems or any other issues, I would have the Tps reset | ||
| Howieshotrods |
Has anyone come up with a definitive answer to these problems. I'm having the same problem as Redtail69, dealer says it's normal....don't think so!!! | ||
| Nasty73z |
Don't mean to dig up an long thread but my bike has been plauged by all of the symptoms that this thread describes. I have 2004 XB12S with Drummer, Race ECM, American Sport Bike open air box, Drummer catch can, snorkel removed. The bike simply will not idle. I took out the Race ECM for a while and went back to the stock one, the bike ran great. Put a DIFFERENT Race ECM in it and now it is back to not wanting to idle period. Changed the plugs twice already, now running the Denso iridium's, order new higher performance wires, I've done at least 5 TPS resets, checked and adjustment the static timing. Seems like the only thing left is the intake gaskets. Has anyone found a solution to these symptoms in the last year and nine months? |
