| Author | Message | ||
     Hogs |
So tell me something guys, I have a 12r with race ecm,filter,air filter cover top only, and Cutup outer air/tank cover with two front air inlets and two side inlets/exits, And right now I am running a D&D Works like a CHAMP, no plms, anywheres, maybe just maybe once in awhile a little pinging not much... NOW I have a Force on route complete (older Style) HOW will this effect my bike running if I just do the change over to the force, what rpm range... may be affected ( also have baffel coming) as I see some just put it on before with the stock ecm and complain on plms. Just wondering IF i will luck out and have no plms at ALL... (except for the breakage plms),WISHfull thinking perhaps but please explain where I might have plms.in the rpm rangeetc.etc Thanks Chris | ||
| M1combat |
Read this entire thread... Read the thread that I linked above to you... That should at least give you an example of what you MIGHT face... Also... My force pipe Gen I, broke in LESS THAN A WEEK. Look at Misato's website, that will show you where it broke. You WILL need to re-inforce the pipe properly or it WILL break. That's the last time I'm saying those three things. | ||
| Hogs |
Hey M1, Yup I know about the breakage plm. have you found out yet just what the header pipe, muffler, and the brackets are made out of ? , Yeah,Well you know what I run and she runs 100 percent strong now and Just find it hard to believe that it will run like •••• if I just do the force, and header exchange, whats the plm. Too much fuel or not enough, I wd. think one doesn`t have to be a rocket scienetist to figure it out?? MOre flow needs more fuel, perhaps the baffel will help Alot,... | ||
| Noface |
Hogs, I can guarantee you that it's going to fall on its face w/o an extra fuel system augmentation, be it TFI or PCII. I installed the D&D muff on the Force header and it still stumbles bad off idle and in the upper rpm band. The Force header seems to flow that much better than the stock piece. At least it does on the 984. The 1200, as we know, has larger header tubing, so it might not be such a drastic change. If you go way back in the archives, when this pipe first came out, Aaron explains what it takes to setup, and also confesses that he couldn't tune out the small off idle stumble on the 984 or 1050 kit. The 1200 (3 13/16 bore) he claimed run smooth as glass. These pipes ain't plug-n-play. They need augmentation over and above the race kit to make them run right. And a dyno to make them run better. Oh, and the baffle is only going to skim off the peaks throughout the powerband. Most claim the system does better with the baffle, but don't expect the change to be enough to offset the need for fuel augmentation. | ||
| M1combat |
It will run both rich and lean. I'VE SAID THAT BEFORE. It runs rich from 2K to 3K, lean from 3K to 4K. It's a reversion. PLEASE read those posts up there... You WILL need a TFI. I also STRONGLY recommend the baffle. On a twelve, I also strongly recommend the Race ECM. It "seems" that the stock 12 ECM changes the fuel/spark curve where the exhaust valve would actuate and that kills the bottom end with the Force pipe. This has all been stated in previos posts. Please go read them, they are there for a reason. My settings right now are 1:00, 3:00, 6:00, 7:00. I'll be turning the fourth to 7:30 based on a conversation I had with George Levings from Dobeck. | ||
| Hogs |
Hey, Well just fishing for info, So I can get up to speed on all, Dynos... don`t have any here at all so thats out of the question...So it runs FAT between 2 and 3 thousand , Hmmm maybe thats where the Power Commander may be better than the TFI,??? 3 to 4 k lean that should be no plms. for either the P/Commander or the TFI, OR just keep the revs. above 3K and thats GooD...I almost all the time run above 3k anyways if memory serves me correctly...Rather run an engine reving than Lugging especially a Harley Engine.. So why all the fuss then I wonder.. M1 are you using a baffel at all,Please keep me informed on your settings, Wonder if Our different climates will have a different effect as well..? And Thanks Noface appreciate all the info there as well Bud :-)) | ||
| M1combat |
Well... Go read those posts that I linked to JUST FOR YOU. You will not be able to ride w/o the TFI me-thinks. Go read the threads. | ||
| Hogs |
For anyone who needs this info ... apparently question was asked of John at FMP..what metal is used for the header pipe, muffler pipe, and all the brackets on this force pipe and the reply is " all mild steel " hope that helps for anyone wanting to weld this sucker up.!!! | ||
| Hogs |
Anyone know when this force pipe was first released for the xb series?? month and year? Thanks | ||
| M1combat |
I think they're pulling someones chain... I tried to weld using an O2/Acetylene torch and some rods that should wirk with mild steel... The welding stuck to the mild steel I was using very well, but not at ALL to the Force Pipe. Yes, I filed off the jet hot coating first. | ||
| Hogs |
Hey M1, Not sure I asked Dan , you know the fella who is selling the pipes on ebay to ask his Buddy "John" at FMP ( i think they are pretty tight) to find out what the pipe, muffler, and brackets what type of metal is used on all three and that was his reply mild steel... By the way How is you bike working now you got all the bugs out yet? | ||
| Noface |
Don, That's strange you're having problems w/ welding on the pipe. I guarentee you it's mild steel. FWIW, the original welds on the pipe look to be TIG, and that's the process I used to weld the brackets/gussets on my Force pipe. There were no issues at all. Do you know anyone that can TIG? | ||
| Hogs |
Hey Noface you get that pipe all welded up and get any miles on it yet , Or ???? and yes its all suppose to be mild steel... | ||
| M1combat |
Yeah, I can take it to Leslie's house... She's a "tig"er... | ||
| Noface |
Chris, weather, and lack of PCII have kept the bike in the garage  I've only got about 50 miles on the new and improved brackets. We'll see. Don, well... errr... I guess Leslie must be quite the welder for sure!  | ||
| Deerhunter17 |
Try a magnet on the pipe, if it is magnetic, you sould be able to weld it with mild steel applications ( mig / tig / oxy ) | ||
| Hogs |
Hey Don, Thanks pal Keep me up to speed on your pipe and brackets thanks Buddy , still waiting for mine to get here, | ||
| Hogs |
Received my Force today NOW the fun begins have to get a tfi or power commander for the fuel and also try to get this baby welded up soon before the install...Hope that won`t take me forever,... | ||
| Norrisperformance |
I sent power commander an email. They said they don’t offer a module for the XB and don’t recommend the older style Buell module. I’m a dealer for the Dobeck, Techlusion box. I sale them for $235. 5 percent discount if you’re a bad web member. 223.25 plus tax and shipping. www.norrisperformance.com | ||
| Hogs |
Hey Norrisparformance, YEah I know they don`t sell em, but there are them that run em here on badweb,With good luck I think... ,Just wonder if the tfi or a p/commander for the x1 models wd. be a better unit for a xb12 with mods etc.etc., as I heard some are having plms. with the TFI using the force as well...(only being able to + fuel and not - fuel or injection? | ||
| Vegasbueller |
Norrisparformance: Dude... I am not being a dick here... but unless you have paid the man here, you are about to be pounded by a relentless barrage of "become a sponsor" messages. I would be cool till you talk to Blake. Nick | ||
| Norrisperformance |
Sorry Hogs I'm a new member, just trying to help. | ||
| Hogs |
Hmmm ,I just assumed he was a sponsor, offering items for sale , but perhaps he didn`t know about having to become or have sponsorship here before he could sell on the BAdWeB, YuP better check with Blake first if ya don`t, before offering items for sale here... Cheers | ||
| Hogs |
Oh, okay thanks for the help there anyways Norrisparfermance,But Our Dave here is a sponsor as well as others that do offer that unit for sale allready.. | ||
| Vegasbueller |
No problems dude.. and that is really what we are all about here. The owner is just a wee bit of the old school marm when it comes to his rules.  | ||
| Norrisperformance |
Hey Guys I sent blake an email. I don't care about being a sponsor. But if thats what I have to do, thats OK. I'm not a retail store. I make custom CNC machined harley parts. I really was trying to help. And was not trying to take any business from Dave. | ||
| Vegasbueller |
I checked out your site. That is some really cool work you have there. Now...if only I can get the Buell paid off and get that Heritage the wife keeps eyeballing! | ||
| Hogs |
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4530060146&rd=1&ss pagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT#ebayphotohosting Hey Guys I guess this above is the new force mounting system ,no lower fairing mounting hmmm, Now ,Do you think, "IF" we cut this pipe and add these springs at the header sections ( just like snow mobiles exhaust have) instead of re welding the bottom mounts that this will fix the brackets from breaking?? Might be the way instead of welding up the lower brackets which I`m not sure will work anyways, Now having got mine and seeing how thin the metal is, and how the motor flexs and the mounting doesn`t , But then again the D&D , etc.etc are all hard mounted??What do you all think??? Thanks | ||
| Tatsu |
Hmmm... those orange clamps melted on my force pipe that I had on the M1.(The orange material) The clamp snapped right at the bend where the bolt connected. My buddy and I figured that the bend in the clamp was acting as a pivot pot between the mount bolt and the pipe. Vibrations finally lead to metal fatigue and snap.. clamp broke right along the bend. This happened twice. Then I went to the hardware store and got some strap metal that flexed a lot better than that stainless steel. Wrapped it along the outside and the clamp held just fine, till I sold the bike. | ||
| Noface |
Hogs, Finally got to spend some time on the bike w/repairs made to the Gen I Force pipe. So far so good. It's holding up well. I can definatelty tell there is less vibration on the bike settling down the chin spoiler with the added rear gusset. Installed the pcII as well. I think you'll want to lean out some sections of the fuel curve, as it's fat on the bottom and top (at least on the 9R). I also borrowed a baffle from a friend, and it makes it run a lot better. Takes some of the edge off I think. Simply whack the throttle in 1st at 3k rpm and the front lofts skyward. No manipulating the throttle, whatever. Just crank on it and watch for the sky. This pipe is gonna be awesome when it's finally tuned in. |
