| Author | Message | ||
     Jerseyguy |
The parts finally came in for my Buell mule. I had to build some custom fixturing and do some wiring, but it's done. I can now record simultaneously A/F, RPM, TPS, Temp & Acceleration, all on the road, for up to 45 minutes of data. I did some preliminary static tests and it's looking like it's going to work. Now if the weather and roads would just clear up a bit I can get some real world data. I'm going to run around the parking lot at my business Saturday for some preliminary testing and debugging. I have to learn the data logging software too. I'll keep you posted.    | ||
| Jerseyguy |
More pics:    | ||
| Tatsu |
Hey that almost looks as if you can get Dyno type of information without having the bike sit on the dyno. Just do the runs on the road. What does the data read to? I see the unit on your tail section. | ||
| Hogs |
Just being able to set , or read the a/f is the Cats meow in itself I wd. think....! | ||
| Jerseyguy |
I only had time today to mess around with the idle adjustment on the TFI, but I could watch the A/F average change after making an adjustment to the #1 pot. | ||
| Jerseyguy |
The unit in the tail bag is the data logger. It has a serial port for downloading stored data or it can send a real time display to a laptop. The device mounted off of the foot peg is more or less a signal conditioner with a built in accelerometer. | ||
| Unibear12r |
You got my attention! Looks like a very nice set-up. A motorcycle tinker's heaven. | ||
| Rr_eater |
I plan on doing the exact same thing with my MegaSquirt unit, and my G-tech Pro, some time this summer. Data logging will be on a palm pilot hooked into MS, and reference marks made on MS using a marker system against the G-tech. Very cool set up jersey, looks like the only thing I will have on that setup is full adjustability, thats all. Keep us posted brother!! Bruce | ||
| Xbolt12 |
Cool! xbolt12 | ||
| Jerseyguy |
I've been setting up and testing the system today. A couple of points so far. With the bike not running, but the key on I was scaling the TPS voltage to percent of full twist on the throttle (or so I thought). Check out the graph below. I wacked the throttle open in a quarter of a second but it takes 2 seconds to get to half voltage and nearly 10 seconds to go to full voltage. I wonder exactly what the ECM does with this info.  Second point: I felt I was generally lean until I hit 5000 RPM. I couldn't figure it out as my TFI had pot 4 set at 7000 RPM (or so I thought). Then I remembered something Trench had said a while back & searched for the thread. Duh... Dobec doesn't really use the fourth pot like the directions say. The "main" comes in at a fixed 5000 rpm. Mystery solved. Onward to the midrange..... | ||
| Craigster |
Rr-Eater, I think you're going to like the tuning with the MS. The data logging will be great. Wait until you see what's coming out next! Not for sale....yet.  | ||
| Rr_eater |
Craig, dont be a tease!! Drop me a line!! Bruce | ||
| Rr_eater |
Jersey In most FI applications, TPS is not a user of voltage, but of resistance. I am only wondering if maybe what you are seeing is the pulse width for the injection? Or maybe, I am thinking out my neck, but on both TPS's I have, one Buell, one VW, they measure resistance both accurately and instantly, and dont change for a given position, ever, unless you move the throttle. Double check the connections maybe, not sure, not familiar with innovative technologies stuff, so.... .02 Bruce | ||
| Opto |
Jersey, that tps graph looks like a charge curve for a capacitor. The tps voltage would normally be instantaneous. Looking forward to your next posts. Craig what is that, a Mini-MS II?? FI and spark for a Buell? An ecm replacement perhaps??? | ||
| Jerseyguy |
RR, the bottom scale is seconds so pulse width not a possibility. The voltage rises from about 1.something volts to 4.7 volts with a full twist on the throttle. (I wrote down the exact voltages but I can't remember what they were). I just scaled those voltages to be 0 to 100%. Opto -I would have thought it to be instantaneous as well, that's why I posted the unusual response curve. I can't hold it at full throttle for 10 seconds in my parking lot or I'll be in the woods. I need a good highway run when the snow is gone. That voltage gets nowhere near 4.7 even though I hit the rev limiter in first in the parking lot. I guess it needs a bit more investigation. My initial short runs were mostly to set up the test system which isn't quite done yet. One thing seems fairly evident though. Lambda is generally just under 1 at idle and around .8 over 5K. In between its mixed but generally higher than 1. Again these are just first & second gear short pulls so nothing in conclusive. I do suspect I will need to be adding gas in the middle. | ||
| Craigster |
I cannot say for sure, but it looks like MS-II has a derivative for motorcycles in Mini MS-II (Opto is the winner!!) I don't think it shows in the picture but: 12x12 tables expandable to 16x16 for VE and Target AFR. Also supports dual tables, Idle air control or Idle air stepper control, all built in relays for fuel pump, idle air solenoid, and your choice of alpha-N, speed density or blended A-N/SP at cross over you select. Also baro correction before first revolution of cranking even starts (no need for O2 sensor to warm up before adjustments are made to fueling), supports narrow band 'switching' O2 (self driven)and wideband O2s including the DIY L1H1 NTK system, The B&G PWC LsU4 and even Jersey Guy's Innovative system. You MSers already know all that, but if you haven't seen it yet....get ready for some slick EFI features. I just love this stuff. | ||
| Opto |
Craig you forgot to mention adjustable rev limiter and adjustable warm-up enrichments, the latter allowing the owner to ride off from a cold start with minimal warmup time without fear of missing/sputtering. Also it can run off the stock O2 sensor and do fuel mixture corrections at cruise just like the stock ecm, from the tuning page of your laptop you can command MS to aim for a particular O2 sensor voltage, and dictate the percentage amount and speed of correction. Unless you're a master tuner though, it's difficult to get the AFR right without dyno runs or an AFR meter (or both). I'm keen on the AFR meter in that it proly costs only a bit more than a reasonable amount of dyno time, but you always have it if further changes are made to the bike or if it doesn't seem to be running right one day. Jersey that's why I'm keen to see how your AFR meter goes, I think you're the first I've heard about to fit a wideband O2 sensor to an XB Buell. | ||
| Jerseyguy |
Ian - That slow response curve I showed above is an instrumentation issue. I put a digital multimeter on the signal and the voltage varies instantaneously with throttle position. You were right. No biggie. I had another issue with the accelerometer calibration - they overnighted me a new one & I see its at the local Fedex out for delivery today. The really solid part of the system is the lambda recording vs rpm. The software can be graphical or chart based. You can really see what's going on, both real time or as a recorded session on the road. I'm still learning. Craigster - I love this stuff too. I've been designing and building custom machinery and control systems since 1971 - my life's work (www.haynes-corp.com). Its a real joy to intimately apply my experience to my favorite pastime. | ||
| Craigster |
Forgive me Ian, There's so many extra features it's easy to lose track! The Buell motor is back together and the hayabusa is off the dyno. The Buell is going back on (went on yesterday) so I hope to complete the new version of Fueling soon. I'll have updates over on MS-EFI.com Jersey, Nice automation site. My day job is at: http://www.vsea.com/ I used to work in High Energy and Endstation/Factory Automation. Robotics can be fun or pure hell depending upon where you sit! Looks like you have a fun day job. Look what we have here, first permanent wideband on a Buell, and first XB rider running on DIY fuel injection. I'm a DIY-EFI guy (not sure if I was the first tuber EFI guy or not) and we have RR joining the tuning sector soon as well. I think we need a spot to discuss the rest of this home made instrumentation and control. I think there are enough of us here already. Any thoughts? Craig | ||
| Jerseyguy |
That slow voltage rise on the TPS was due to a bad channel on the signal conditioner. I should have a new one by tomorrow according to the vendor. | ||
| Tatsu |
So Jersey guy.. What settings did u end up with on the TFI? Is that with a STOCK or RACE ECM setup? Thanks | ||
| Jerseyguy |
The weather has been so poor that all I could do was hold the throttle at various RPM settings in neutral and record data. I did do a couple of quick pulls in first & second in the parking lot too. I really need to get out to interstate 78 and get some solid long 4th & 5th gear pulls. Its just too messy right now and more snow is predicted for the weekend. I did find generally that I was running rich at idle and over 5K and maybe lean in the middle. I had the pots at 4 6 6 7. I'm going to reset them to 3 6 3 7 & see what happens. I'm probably wasting my time just doing it in neutral. I am getting pretty good with the software now though. I've been emailing the graphs to Kevin for his development work too. I don't know if I'll be able to post the graphs directly here as the files are huge and size reductions make them illegible. I'm probably going to set up a page on the old KDFAB website where you can all see the charts. | ||
| Tatsu |
Jerseyguy, I like a copy of your graphs. email me at LGM_Tatsu@hotmail.com Are you running a stock or race ECM? Thanks | ||
| Jerseyguy |
tatsu - see if this link works - race ECM http://www.patmedia.net/haynesfam/xb9%20charts | ||
| Jerseyguy |
Remember - this is a no load run in neutral | ||
| Tatsu |
Yes that worked fine. I'm curious to see your finish settings on the TFI when have a chance to really put the bike through some runs. |
