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Tribalreaper
Posted on Monday, March 02, 2020 - 06:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Does any body know a good mechanic in Minnesota to do a valve shim adjustment.
Any and all help would be appreciated.
Thanks for the help Jim
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Xbuell12s
Posted on Monday, March 02, 2020 - 06:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hi Jim,

I'm in Hastings and I do valve adjustments on 1125s. My shop is called Lightning Cycle. I can get you referals if you would like. You can contact me at kane.bill@hotmail.com.

Thanks,
Bill
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1_mike
Posted on Tuesday, March 03, 2020 - 11:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Be SURE...that the shop / person that you go to, uses REAL Harley or Buell shims. NOT...the soft aftermarket shims.
Buell and Harley used hard shims for a reason..!

Mike
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Shoggin
Posted on Wednesday, March 04, 2020 - 02:30 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Neither Harley Davidson or Buell manufactured their own shims.
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Xbuell12s
Posted on Wednesday, March 04, 2020 - 06:17 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I purchase my shims from SPHD BTW.
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Shoggin
Posted on Wednesday, March 04, 2020 - 12:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

That's cool. Shim 'wear' is a very odd thing to obsess about.

Shims aren't in any position to wear from friction and of the literally thousands of shims I've dealt with, I have never seen a flattened one.

Including yesterday:


I wouldn't recommend cutting up a beer can to make your own, but tool steel isn't necessary either. YMMV, IMO, IMHO, Etc.
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Stimbrell
Posted on Thursday, March 05, 2020 - 06:02 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Given how many people use aftermarket shims you would think if they were an issue there would be many reports about it but I have never seen one.
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Stevel
Posted on Thursday, March 05, 2020 - 09:12 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

These shims do not need to be hard. I have never seen one that was not hardened, but they do not need to be hard. You will never put enough miles on that motor to cause significant wear. I know this because I have made and used soft ones without any issues.
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Tribalreaper
Posted on Thursday, March 12, 2020 - 02:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thank you Bill ( Xbuell12s )for all the great work and getting it dun so quickly and cheaply.
Thanks again Jim
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Xbuell12s
Posted on Thursday, March 12, 2020 - 02:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Your welcome and thanks for the business! Let me know if there is anything else you need.

Bill
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Drawkward
Posted on Tuesday, March 31, 2020 - 11:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

How do you know that you need to have this taken care of. I have over 17K on my 2008 and haven't done any checking yet. However, I don't feel or hear anything different.

Thoughts?
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Xbuell12s
Posted on Tuesday, March 31, 2020 - 11:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The service interval is 12,400 miles. The bike I just did had 9,000 miles on it and every shim needed to be swapped out. Not a good way to check the clearances without rotating the motor. I always just go based on miles. I've heard of bad things happening when you go too long. The valves can't open far enough then and pressure builds in the engine.

(Message edited by xbuell12s on March 31, 2020)
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Drawkward
Posted on Tuesday, March 31, 2020 - 11:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Well....that sucks. Is there any indication? I've read so many different things about these adjustments from people doing them and none of the shims needing swapped to what you just said.

I really don't want to do this and I doubt there are any shops my way (Pittsburgh) that specialize in it.

Whats a rough cost of getting this done anyways? I suspect I could do it (I've rebuilt the trans in my M2 and done a jugs up top end rebuild and do all other mechanical work on my cars and motorcycles) but with 4 kids I don't have much extra time.
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Xbuell12s
Posted on Tuesday, March 31, 2020 - 12:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I've done about 6 valve adjustments and have never come across a shim that didn't need to be swapped out in each bike. Most Harley shops won't touch them now. I'm not sure who is in your area. I would guess between $400-800. I'm on the lower end of that range. It's not an impossible job to do yourself but does require patience and I'd suggest an owners manual.

Or take a road trip to MN and I'll do it!
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Stevel
Posted on Tuesday, March 31, 2020 - 01:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Shims need to be periodically changed out, but not because of shim wear. The reason is called valve recession. The valve seats and the valve wears depending on many factors like material used and fuel burned.
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Stevel
Posted on Tuesday, March 31, 2020 - 01:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Shims need to be periodically changed out, but not because of shim wear. The reason is called valve recession. The valve seats and the valve wears depending on many factors like material used and fuel burned.
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Stimbrell
Posted on Tuesday, March 31, 2020 - 02:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Just FYI when I did my first valve adjustment I only needed to change three shims so it does seem to vary bike to bike, will be doing another in the next few weeks, will post up what I find. I am in the UK and I also have a 1250 stage two carbed Sportster for which I find I have to use smaller jets than our US cousins do when using similar parts, I am using a wideband to confirm this, so local fuel may well be a factor
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Froggy
Posted on Tuesday, March 31, 2020 - 03:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

My non-scientific observation has been that how hard you ride seems to be a big factor. My 08 and 09 both were checked at around 12k miles and both did not need any adjustment, but both them I did 95% of my riding at a relaxed pace. From what I've seen the people that need them to be frequently adjusted were those that ride harder, and in some cases were track only bikes. Both my bikes are in the shop right now at 25k miles undergoing this again, so I'm curious the results.

EBR bumped up it up to include checking it every 6k miles, but from what I understand the motor is more accessible and doesn't need frame removal or engine rotation to access the front cylinder. My 2014 SX goes into the shop for that this weekend.
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651lance
Posted on Tuesday, March 31, 2020 - 05:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

It fairly simple... the harder you pound on the engine the more the valves sink into the head.
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Shoggin
Posted on Tuesday, March 31, 2020 - 11:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Ill set the lash to the very top side of spec and it's pretty consistently helped me avoid swapping shims the next service making life slightly easier: )

Froggy: I just did my SX and it was very easy. You will have to separate the frame though. Don't bother trying to cheat it. Theres no way to even get the front header off, rear valve cover off, or even decent access to check the valve lash accurately.

Splitting the frame is surprisingly easy and fast, theres maybe 4 main bolts after the whole airbox is removed (IIRC). Have a good way to support the rear seat frame and a ton of stuff can stay connected.

Took about 4.5 beers the first time, next time will be faster.
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Froggy
Posted on Wednesday, April 01, 2020 - 10:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Good to know. My skill level is around 1.5 beers, maybe 2 on a long weekend if I'm feeling adventurous.
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Shoggin
Posted on Thursday, April 02, 2020 - 02:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

You'll be ok. Just take your time, take lots of cell phone pics and stay organized. It really only goes back together one way. It is time consuming but pretty logically assembled.

There wasn't really anything particularly difficult to figure out. The nice thing for these hyperbikes is theres no superfluous BS, it's all there for simplicity and speed
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Firemanjim
Posted on Saturday, April 04, 2020 - 01:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The danger is not from the valves not opening far enough--- we are talking thousands of an inch on these shims, the danger is too tight and valve not seating well enough to shed valve heat and leading to a burnt valve, and way loose will lead to lack of power as not getting good valve lift. Old drag racer trick was run on tight side for most lift /duration.
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Shoggin
Posted on Saturday, April 04, 2020 - 03:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Very true Firemanjim. Old trick for sure. It brings up a question though. Since the tolerances and specs are so much tighter today, would that trick still work to make power? Sounds like a good Engine Masters suggestion!

Since this type of valve train gets tighter with miles, I leave them on the loose side of spec, to hopefully only have to check them at the next interval and not swap shims. On a bike with shim under bucket, you can avoid having to pull the cams out, yay!
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