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Buell Forum » 1125R Superbike Board » EarthX LiFePo4 lithium battery doesn't have enough juice for cold start « Previous Next »

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Thefleshrocket
Posted on Thursday, May 09, 2019 - 07:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I bought an EarthX ETX24C battery back in July '16 for my 1125R after a crappy lead acid battery died very prematurely. The ETX24C is rated at 270CCA, but I have still been having starting problems. https://earthxbatteries.com/shop/etx24c

On a 65F morning, after the bike has been in a 70F garage all night, on a lithium-designed Battery Tender Jr., I'll turn on the key while I get on my gear. This gives the battery about 2 minutes to "warm up". When I attempt to start the bike, the engine makes it less than one revolution, and the cluster goes dark. (The EarthX battery has low-voltage protection.. if voltage drops too low, it automatically disconnects itself internally.) If I wait about 2 minutes, the battery resets itself, and I can try again. On the second attempt, the engine will make it a bit more than one revolution before the battery goes silent again. On the third try, I can usually get it started.

This is super irritating, and undoubtedly hard on the starter. And of course it resets the clock, too. EarthX support thinks that I just need a battery with more CCA, but the next-size up is 320CCA, which is only 50CCA more than my current battery. (My battery is outside the 2-year warranty, though I have had this problem during the warranty period but just never said anything about it. EarthX has offered me 20% off of the bigger battery.) I honestly just wish there was a way to disable the low voltage protection so the battery would crank no matter what, but that's not possible.

I seem to remember there being some kind of workaround--possibly running an extra ground cable or something like that, which would allow more power from the battery to make it to the starter. Does that sound like something that would help in this case, or is my problem really just a battery that ain't as strong as it should be?
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Fresnobuell
Posted on Thursday, May 09, 2019 - 09:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I think the workaround was to devise a relay that would disable the lights when cranking the motor. I was interested as well if this was actually implemented by someone (and how) or not.

About a year ago, I put in a lithium battery from another manufacturer and I have been thrilled with its performance

I remember long ago I got a crude early lithium battery pack for my track bike. A few attempts at cranking the motor always seemed like a more effective method of "warming" the battery up in comparison to leaving the lights on. Not sure if it's the higher draw on the battery?

Here is what I have. It's rated at 250 CCA.


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Ggggary
Posted on Thursday, May 09, 2019 - 09:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I put an (Amazon return) EarthX ETX36C in my 1190 this spring and after the initial charge I have not used shore power on it. It spins the 1190 with authority, even for some longer cranking periods after having sat for 4 years, it had 2 miles on it in March and only 600 now. bike has sat for several weeks at a time and started with zero issues.
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Thefleshrocket
Posted on Thursday, May 09, 2019 - 11:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

This is the battery that EarthX recommends as a replacement: https://earthxbatteries.com/shop/ETZ14C It's $249, but $174 after 20% discount. The product description claims that it's optimized for starting snowmobiles in cold temps, so presumably I shouldn't need to "warm" this battery.

Or, I am considering a Battery Tender brand battery, as I have one in my Speed Triple that's been great, and I just put one in my DRZ400E. The BT batteries also now have the low-voltage protection (the version I bought for my Triple was an earlier model that didn't have that), but you can forcibly reset it through a button on the battery charger pigtail--so if the battery goes into low-voltage shutdown, you can bring it back immediately.
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Stevel
Posted on Friday, May 10, 2019 - 01:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I don't know how many times I have posted this, but Lithium batteries fail rapidly in weather colder than 10C. Repeated exposure to cold weather drastically reduces their effective life. They are NOT a substitute to an AGM lead acid battery for motor vehicles.

This info is not advertised, but is readily available everywhere.
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Fresnobuell
Posted on Friday, May 10, 2019 - 12:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Considering my last couple lead acid batteries have had about 1-2 year lifespans and left me stranded at the gas station, I'll take my chances with the Bikemaster. Also, the fact the Bikemaster isn't much more than a lead acid AGM battery.

Perhaps I will disconnect the lithium battery and bring it inside during the 3-4 Winter months..

I also bought the $30 battery tender by the same manufacturer. It's made for Lithium batteries. i have noticed that it charges the Lithium battery for very short periods of time after a ride (like 10-30 seconds) and is green all other times, which is good IMHO.

(Message edited by fresnobuell on May 10, 2019)
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Oldog
Posted on Friday, May 10, 2019 - 06:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

How long have you had the Lithium battery

The one description with long sits sounds like exactly what I need, the AGM batteries,
do not hold up well in the 25 VS my X1 where I can expect 4-5 years of service
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Mhpalin
Posted on Friday, May 10, 2019 - 10:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Wow I don't know what I am doing,both my 08R and my 09CR (08 rotor and stator) have the original batteries in them.Could it be that I keep them on tenders all the time and where I live.
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Panshovevo
Posted on Saturday, May 11, 2019 - 10:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

[I think the workaround was to devise a relay that would disable the lights when cranking the motor. I was interested as well if this was actually implemented by someone (and how) or not. ]

The 1125s are wired from the factory so that the headlight(s) turn(s) off when you press the starter button. The light(s) come back on as soon as the button is released.
If you want or need specific details on how this is accomplished, let me know.

Grounds and good positive cables are essential to reliable starting. When I have a hard starting bike, I check the crimped ends of cables and wires for hidden corrosion, especially if there is heat shrink over the end.
Get yourself a copy of the Electrical Diagnostic manual for the bike.
Many of the procedures are described as being performed using a Harley-Davidson tool called a Breakout Box. Most of the time, Iíve been able to figure out what is being accomplished with the tool, and work around not having one. YMMV, but if you get in a jam, someone here can probably help you out.
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Fresnobuell
Posted on Saturday, May 11, 2019 - 12:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)


quote:

The 1125s are wired from the factory so that the headlight(s) turn(s) off when you press the starter button. The light(s) come back on as soon as the button is released.
If you want or need specific details on how this is accomplished, let me know.




Interesting. I guess I never notice this, but I will look for it when I start the bike in about 30 minutes. Time for a ride!
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Fresnobuell
Posted on Saturday, May 11, 2019 - 12:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)


quote:

Wow I don't know what I am doing,both my 08R and my 09CR (08 rotor and stator) have the original batteries in them.Could it be that I keep them on tenders all the time and where I live.




I use a tender, but I have probably been thru 5 batteries in 10-11 years of ownership. The last 2-3 have been Yuasa AGMs. I am not sure I would recommend this brand even though it seems to be a good brand. IDK.
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Stimbrell
Posted on Saturday, May 11, 2019 - 03:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

My 1125 is ten years old and on its second battery and my Sportster is fourteen years old and is also on its second battery, replaced both OEM with Yuasa batteries, seems to be a total luck thing.
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Fresnobuell
Posted on Saturday, May 11, 2019 - 03:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Maybe the heat here kills the batteries faster? The last Yuasa was done in a little over a year. It seemed VERY quick to die. I always liked the way they allow you to add the acid after you purchase the battery. I went to the Lithium battery after that...
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