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Panshovevo
Posted on Monday, November 05, 2018 - 09:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

My new rear tire, that is...

I bought a set of Michelin Power RS tires to replace the last decade vintage tires on the latest R model, and mounted the 190/50-ZR17 on what I believe is the unused original rear wheel.
This took place on my modified Hazard Fraught tire changer with motorcycle attachment. Sure glad I got it on sale...

I have a wickedly screwed up back and neck, and had been buying my tires from a local Indy and having him mount and balance them.

As I need a couple of sets of tires in the near future, and we just adopted three grandkids, I decided it might be wise to buy the tires as cheaply as I could and mount them myself.

I almost thought it was going to whip me...when I was guarding my back, I realized it wasnít going on unless I got violent with it, so I did what I had to do.

Probably a good thing I have a therapeutic massage scheduled for Wednesday!
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Bubba_
Posted on Tuesday, November 06, 2018 - 04:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

lol
i went thru similar (for different reasons)
I decided i needed new tires for my 1125R. found a nice set of dunlops on sale; got some spoons; a bead breaker, etc, etc.
- i couldnt allow any local yokel scratchin' up my rims you see
omg
I had to buy some touch up paint, needless to say
: )

(but they're mounted bygawd)
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Panshovevo
Posted on Tuesday, November 06, 2018 - 09:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

LOL! I had to break out the touch up paint today too.

And I even used a brand new set of name brand wheel protectors.
Even the professional machines take a little powder coat off.

(Message edited by Panshovevo on November 06, 2018)
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Fresnobuell
Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2018 - 06:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

$21 bucks per tire mounted and balanced is worth it to me....It's alot of work unless you invest in some good equipment and I can go thru a six pack watching the wheel go back and forth during the balancing (not saying that's a bad thing.)
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Rsh
Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2018 - 08:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Cycle Gear mounting and balancing charges are reasonable if bring in your wheels and you buy your tires from them, otherwise the price starts adding up quickly.
If you really have a bad back why risk it, you saved money by doing it yourself, but you may get tweaked and not be able to ride anyway.
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Fresnobuell
Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2018 - 08:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have one of the big multi-brand "big boy toy" dealerships here do it. Their main branding is "Honda". I order the tires online and just take in the wheels and new tires. They only screwed up once.
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Willmrx
Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2018 - 09:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I had a shop take the pulley off to replace the tire! I had the shop do it multiple times before without them having to remove the pulley. I told him that I now have to replace the bolt that hold the pulley on, because the manufacturer recommends that you do not reuse them. And yes, I am super picky! But I need the peace of mind that I am not going to have a issue, when I am riding the bike like I stole it!
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Stevel
Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2018 - 03:12 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

You should not be using 190 tires on a 5.5 inch wheel. It is unsafe. If you want to run 190 tires, you need 6" wheels.
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Fresnobuell
Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2018 - 11:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

What would be the advantage of running a 190? Looks?
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Willmrx
Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2018 - 09:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

My 2009 had a 190 on it when I got it. I agree with Steve in this way, it did ride differently enough from my 2008, with a 180 on it, that I replaced it with a 180, when it was time to replace it. The only thing I can say is it felt like the rear end was to high. after putting the 180 on, it handled just like 2008. BTW I had both bikes suspension set up identical. For what it's worth.
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Panshovevo
Posted on Friday, November 09, 2018 - 01:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The bike came to me with a race-worn 190/55 on the rear. I didnít care for it initially, but realized one of the benefits was the reduced tendency to wheelie.

Another rider/racer, member Upaero, runs a 190/55 to get the final drive of his CR closer to an R model without changing to a chain drive, or swapping the swing arm, sprockets, tensioner, etc.

I wanted a larger contact patch without going to a taller tire, which is why I went with the 190/50 series. If I need a six inch wheel, Iíll get one.

This bike has chain final drive, and came with a good selection of sprockets, so altering the final drive ratio will be easy.
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Panshovevo
Posted on Friday, November 09, 2018 - 03:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

FYI, here is a link to a site with allowable tire sizes for different wheel widths.

https://www.tyresizecalculator.com/charts/tire-wid th-for-a-wheel-rim-size-chart
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Stevel
Posted on Saturday, November 10, 2018 - 03:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

This chart is indicative, but doesn't tell the whole story. it is all about rim support of the designed tire shape. If a narrower rim than recommended is used, the shape of the tire at the tread will become non-linear changing both the ride height and dynamically, the tire patch depending on lean angle, so traction can become very unpredictable.
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Nuts4mc
Posted on Saturday, November 10, 2018 - 10:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

some old debate/info from Suzuki TL site on 180 vs 190:

https://www.tlzone.net/forums/suzuki-tl1000r-tl1000s-forum/94660-tire-setup-190-55-190-50-180-55-a-2.html

Like Steve sez...you gotta use the right size rim!



tirepix2



tirepix1
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Willmrx
Posted on Saturday, November 10, 2018 - 10:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

More tire info.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCMP2Fkq8U4
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Fresnobuell
Posted on Saturday, November 10, 2018 - 03:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Interesting info on tire profiles. Looks like a 180 on a 5.5 inch rim is a desirable profile. A 190 with the same profile as the 180 gives a bit more grip and wear due to more rubber in contact with the road. If I understand it correctly.

(Message edited by fresnobuell on November 10, 2018)
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Panshovevo
Posted on Saturday, November 10, 2018 - 09:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I donít see anything that directly addresses the issue of a 190/50 on a 5.5Ē wheel..

This may wind up being a drag racing tire, it might go roundy-round, or it might get worn out on the street before I get to any kind of track.

Time will tell...the wife is pushing hard to keep me off any track...like I keep telling her, I need the Adrenalin fix I used to get from my aerobatic airplane.
Medical issues put a stop to that.
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Fresnobuell
Posted on Saturday, November 10, 2018 - 10:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I found this on an older Ducati forum. Take it for what it's worth. I found it interesting.

"Ducati 748/916's come with 5.5 inch rims standard, although some 916's did come with 6.0 inch rims. In order to get the correct tire profile, the recommended street tire size for 5.5 inch rims specified by the tire manufacturers is 180/55 and for 6.0 inch rims it's 190/50.

The outside diameter of both size tires is the same so a switch won't require a rear ride height adjustment. The important difference is that the
180 is a 55 section meaning that it's height is 55% of the width cross-section. The 190 is 50% of it's width. This means that the 55-section
tire has a steeper profile, it's taller.

When you mount a 190 tire onto a 5.5 inch rim it's profile becomes slightly incorrect. The too-narrow rim forces the tire's outer edges inward into a tighter curve so that you can't use this part of the tire effectively. A correct tire profile creates a correctly-shaped road contact patch essential to optimum handling, better sidewall stability with less tire flex and, and better overall tire wear.

When developing the suspension for the 916, Ducati had World Superbike racing in mind so when they sold models for the street they decided to mount 190/50 tires to 5.5 inch rims, a good combination for stable handling. It's been pointed out that WSB Ducati's used 19/67 race tires, roughly equivalent to a 190/60 road tire. So, we got the wide tire look without the quicker turn-in handling characteristics of the 60 section race tire.

In the 1995 916 owner's manual, Ducati specified the 180/55 as an "alternative" to the 190/50 and the bike's under-seat specification sticker
also listed both sizes as recommended.

It wasn't too long before buyers figured out that switching from the 190/50 to the 180/55 gave a very noticeable change in cornering feel. The 180's, mainly because of their taller, steeper profile, turn-in much quicker and easier. So eventually the word spread, and everyone who has changed to the 180's has praised its positive effects on handling.

Keep in mind that, as any street tire wears, the center section wears down more rapidly than the sides, so a 55 section tire will drop to an equivalent 50 section over the life of the tire. Consequently, the turn-in handling gets sluggish as the tire looses profile. This partially explains the rejuvenating effect that a new set of tires will have on a bike's handling,
and will give you an idea as to the magnitude of the effect of switching to a taller section tire.

A 180 tire is also slightly lighter. This will account for part of the subjective handling improvement experienced when moving from a 190 section tire. The weight difference between brands is greater, especially for the front tire. For example, 120/70 front Pirelli Supercorsa's (8 lbs. 6 oz.) Dunlop D2O7RR (10 lbs 7 oz.) A 2 pound lighter tire will, for example, reduce rotational inertia by the same order of magnitude that you get when switching from an aluminum to a magnesium wheel.

The 190 size is stiffer because of the shorter sidewall. This results in increased grip and reduced the tire carcass flex, making accelerating out of turns hard much less scary. Also, if you reduce tire size, with the same horsepower you're going to stress the tire carcass more. This however, hasn't been a problem even with the most powerful street bike models.

With all that in mind, I recently purchased a used Dymag with a 6 inch rim so I'm running a 190/50. After previously running a 180/55 on a stock 5.5 inch rim, I'm pleased with the combination."
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Panshovevo
Posted on Saturday, November 17, 2018 - 05:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Well, I wound up having a sympathetic local Indy dismount the 190/50 from the 1125R wheel with the XB9R bearings in it, and mount it on another spare wheel.
Also had him mount the new front tire on the magnesium wheel that came with the bike.

He was fair about it, so I tipped him generously, as I often do.

When it came time to mount the tires/wheels on the bike, I found an old post by Jim Dugger explaining how to easily slip the front wheel out without removing the caliper, and damned if it didnít work slicker than snake snot!

I changed the final drive gearing a bit also, by stepping down from a 55 profile tire to a 50, and changing from a 44 tooth rear sprocket to a 45.
It feels like a new bike all the way around! Acceleration was lacking before, and the cornering was inconsistent...I didnít care for it at all.
The trail has changed minutely, by lowering the rear of the bike by means of the rear tire change, and a new set of tires always has a better profile than a used set, especially a mismatched set that was thrown on for a sale.

Iím very glad I pulled the front wheel before the axle got any looser...the pinch bolts were loose, and the axle was loose also.

I tried snugging the axle up, and found that even a small amount of torque on the axle was causing drag on the wheel, so in the interest of riding tonight, I took out the play, and loc-Tited the pinch bolts.

I swear it feels like a new freakiní bike!

After about 10 miles of scuffing in the tires, I gave the throttle a whack at 5K in first, and the front end popped right up like Iíd expect for what it is, then it came back up in second before I backed off.
Yeehaa!
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Panshovevo
Posted on Saturday, November 17, 2018 - 05:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Yes, I probably need to pull the bearing spacer and shorten it a hair in the lathe... or do I need a longer one?
My brain isnít functioning tonight.
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Panshovevo
Posted on Saturday, November 17, 2018 - 06:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

My brain still isnít working, but I think I need either a longer spacer, or for one of the bearings to seat a little deeper so that the crush is on the inner race.
I think...
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Fresnobuell
Posted on Saturday, November 17, 2018 - 06:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

What post by JDuggar?

And just to confirm, you put the 190 on a 5.5 inch rim, not a 6.0 inch rim?
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Panshovevo
Posted on Saturday, November 17, 2018 - 09:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Yes, it was a 190/50 on a 5.5Ē wheel. Someday, I may get well acquainted enough with the bike to tell the difference between a 190/50 on a 5.5Ē wheel, and a 190/50 on a 6Ē wheel, but for now, all I can tell you is the 190/50 feels a whole lot better on a 5.5Ē wheel than a 190/55 does.
And I cannot say how much difference the new front tire on the magnesium wheel is making, or the height difference between the two different rear tires is making.

Iíll see if I can find Jimís post again. It was in someone elseís thread.
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Panshovevo
Posted on Saturday, November 17, 2018 - 09:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

This is a link to a YouTube video. Itís not Jim Duggerís, but it shows the same method.
It took me less time to do it than to type this.

https://youtu.be/n6efJ72O_WQ

The trick is to pull the fender first, then align the ribs of a spoke with the grooves on the back of the caliper.
Putting some masking tape on the potential contact areas of the wheel is a good idea too.

(Message edited by Panshovevo on November 17, 2018)
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Fresnobuell
Posted on Sunday, November 18, 2018 - 11:18 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Regarding the wheel change w/o removing the caliper, I thought I tried this years ago without success. Or maybe I felt it was more work with more potential for damgage to the wheel than removing the caliper as that's only two easily removable bolts. Can't remember.

Good to hear your liking the changes. I wonder if your combo somehow alleviates the issue of the tire being too rounded at the edges from being mounted on a narrower rim? Too bad the profile pic doesn't show your particular combo.
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