G oog le Buell 1125R Forum | Login/out | Topics | Search | Custodians | Register | Edit Profile


Buell Forum » 1125R Superbike Board » Engine durability. « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Flatheadbill
Posted on Monday, July 23, 2018 - 09:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Looking at a couple of used 1125 rides. Is 30k or 20,000 miles acceptable on one of these bikes or is that near expiration. I understand it is based on rider and conditions. Thanks in advance, Bill
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Shoggin
Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2018 - 12:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The bikes themselves will last much longer than that. It would be pathetic to expect a bike bought brand new to only get 30k....


Those bikes? I have no idea about...
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Stevel
Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2018 - 02:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I don't know the expectation of use is for these motors, but other like engines give us a guide. Driven correctly within the design envelope with correct servicing, an air cooled HD is about 100k miles to overhaul. (low speed) A high speed air cooled engine would be about 40k miles. A water cooled low speed motor would be about 150k miles. A high speed water cooled motor would be about 60k miles.

The unknown with the Rotax motor is the durability of the Nicosil cylinder alloy with the piston ring package used. Also keep in mind that these engines are not designed for overhaul. There are no oversize pistons, rings or crank bearings available.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Desert_bird
Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2018 - 09:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Friend of mine has an '08 that turned 125K, with only normal maintenance. Not racing, mind you. The bike has been a 100 mile-a-day high desert commuter, so not much stop and go and most time spent at mid rpm with good oil pressures. So relatively low impact. But still, not bad.
Eric put a huge emphasis on durability for this model. Re. the motor; Rotax is well known for longevity. As an aircraft motor manufacturer, they need to pay special attention to things that others do not. I would venture that the 1125r Rotax motor is perhaps one of the most durable v twins that has been put into production on a motorcycle. Pretty near bombproof.
But, it's all the peripherals that you need to worry about ....

(Message edited by Desert_bird on July 24, 2018)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Stimbrell
Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2018 - 01:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

A rider on the XL, HD Sportster, forum had over 200,000 on his bike and was going strong until unfortunately he dropped the seal from an oil bottle in to the oil tank and blocked the oil feed. This guy does mega miles and cruises at 70 - 80 mph, he does the Iron Butt rally and the like. My wife had a VW VR6 golf that was scrapped with rust issues, the engine was still going fine with over 200,000 miles on the clock, never been apart. These modern machines with normal care can keep on going for sure. YMMV.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Flatheadbill
Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2018 - 10:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks for all the info folks.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Duanelr
Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2018 - 10:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

32,000 on mine and still strong.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Coastrambler
Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2018 - 12:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

57,000 miles on my '09 here. Just the usual stator and VR and clutch weep sagas.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Shoggin
Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2018 - 02:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I've had the same discussion with my diesel head friends. Cummins, Duramax, Powerstroke...

All of those truck will fall apart around the running engine.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Fresnobuell
Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2018 - 04:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

From my experience this motor rocks. The rest of the bike maybe not so much, but the Rotax powerplant is just plain awesome. If it was in a more mainstream bike from a more mainstream manifacturer, it would be one of the most iconic short stroke V-twin motors of all time.

But unfortunately you can't just ride the motor itself....
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Stevel
Posted on Friday, July 27, 2018 - 08:06 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Harlan,
I'm sorry to say it just is not so. There were lots of errors made in the design. I'm certain they were not the fault of Rotax, but were the product of bastardization by HD for only God knows why. Read so many of my previous threads and learn.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Shoggin
Posted on Friday, July 27, 2018 - 10:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

EVERY engine, (heck everything manufactured)... is the result of compromise.

No one thinks these are perfect, but to the OP's question, They have proven to last well more than 30K.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Fresnobuell
Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2018 - 07:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Stevel--I am coming from the riders perspective. I have over 40,000 miles, mostly hard and reliable miles, on this bike. How many do you have? Do you ride as much as you type?

I don't have a mechanic's opinion of the motor because I am not one...and my post and the OP's question doesn't ask about engine design anyway.

(Message edited by fresnobuell on July 29, 2018)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Stevel
Posted on Monday, July 30, 2018 - 04:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Harlan,
Consider yourself lucky. There are a lot of junked motors out there with all kinds of catastrophic engine failures. Many of which have been reported here. Remember there were not so many of these engines made, so real world stats are not available. Further, most engines go through several redesign iterations during its production life. This one did not. When these motors fail, they're junked because there are no parts. Do you think the forum readers should consider your very fortunate experience the ultimate guide of this engine's durability? Surely, reparability should be part of the OP's answer to his question and at this moment this engine's reparability rating cannot go much lower. It is quite obvious you are not a mechanic. The only thing you can really say is that you have 40,000 miles of trouble free riding. Well, good for you.

I have been riding 2 wheels continuously since the age of 15 across 3 continents through many countries. I am 74 and still own and drive 3 motorcycles.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Fresnobuell
Posted on Monday, July 30, 2018 - 11:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I don't believe there are abnormal number of reports of catastrophic engine failures. I would think someone would chime in here with a motor failure if there were so many out there. All I see are positive reports. How exactly do you know how many junked motors there are? What are the common points of failure? Care to elaborate?

And yes these are ride em until they die bikes, which is why "repairability" isn't all that important IMHO. I stated that in the 1190 Exhaust thread where someone spent $4,000+ and unknown hours converting to 1190 Cooling and Exhaust systems.

For $5,000 or less you are getting one hell of performing motorcycle with the 1125R. At the time of the initial production it the 1125R slotted in right behind the Ducati 1098 as the highest power V-twin motor available. Not too shabby for the first iteration.

(Message edited by fresnobuell on July 30, 2018)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Stevel
Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2018 - 05:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Harlan,
If you have read my previous comments on the observed design faults, all have to do with performance. Leaving those aside for the moment, the biggest reliability risks is the valve train. In almost all the catastrophic engine failure cases, it was the valve train that was the cause. In most of the cases, it was a valve shim that left the pocket in the spring retainer. In this design, the valve spring's ability to follow the cam profile is critical. When it doesn't the shim will jump out of the pocket, get jammed up in the finger follower mechanism, which will prevent the valve from closing. Then the piston collides with the extended valve and the engine grenades. That's when you junk the motor or the bike.

So, what is the route cause of this fault? Well, we rarely ever find out for sure, because it is often a missed shift creating an over rev condition or extreme engine decel. due to rider error and most riders will never admit it. However, there are several weak components that contribute to this vulnerability like weak springs, poor chain guides, insufficient top end oiling and front cylinder flex due to chassis forces. Take your pick.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Fresnobuell
Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2018 - 03:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Again, aside from your previous comments (which I know you are big on) where are you getting your information about the motors blowing up?

Or are you deducing this from your knowledge and opinion on how this motor is designed without an basis in the real world?

I bought my 1125R in fall of 2007 I believe (one of the first to take delivery of the bike) and have been on this board since 2005 or thereabouts when I bought my first bike (XB9SX). I have NOT ONCE heard of what you described in your last post.

I am not saying it hasn't happened, but for sure if this is such a major fault of the Rotax design undoubtedly it would have surfaced to a point where a Badweb "regular" would have heard of it.

I mean look at the pages upon pages devoted to the stator issue(s) on our bike.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Fresnobuell
Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2018 - 03:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Double post.

(Message edited by fresnobuell on July 31, 2018)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Shoggin
Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2018 - 01:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'd rather junk one 1125 engine (never seen it happen) than do the Ducati every 1500-mile-dealer-visit-valve-adju$$t-shuffle.

I wholly disagree the 1125 motor is fragile. Charging system sucks, sure.... but motor failure hasn't been a common issue.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Barraspalding
Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2018 - 02:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Charging system is inherently heat related, or that is the by product?

I like the engine, but very much dislike the cooling system!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Figorvonbuellingham
Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2018 - 11:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I've had 3 1125cr's I beat on the first two severely. They ran as good when I sold them as the day I bought them. I can't say that for my BMW s1000rr. I still have the 3rd CR and am probably going to keep it until it becomes a collectors item. It's pretty low mileage and mint. My only regret is I put high bars on it and gave the stock bars away. Probably going to effect the collector value.... If it ever gets to that point.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Barraspalding
Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2018 - 07:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

easy fix to source original bars... stalk the classifieds : )

I'm contemplating keeping the 1125r but purchase a new bike to actually ride... keep the buell for the occasional thrap through the hills but store it up and wait for a century or so for it to gain a few $ on the collectors market. Maybe someone assassinate Erik... death and art seem to create value!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Figorvonbuellingham
Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2018 - 08:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Also, Rotax engines have been raced for a very long time, especially the flat track. It's an engine built with a good history. Another advantage of a high mileage engine is it probably doesn't have the stator issue or it has already been addressed. It would take alot of batteries to get to 30,000 miles with a state issue.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Fresnobuell
Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2018 - 10:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

LOL. Yes these bikes are tough on batteries.

The best point yet.

Rotax has a great reputation and track history. I still remember when I first heard Rotax was building the engine. I knew I was buying one at that instant.

I just read about that two seater aeroplane that Roy Holliday (the baseball pitcher) died in last year. It's a Rotax powered $300,000 toy. Can't remember the name of the aeroplane, but it just another sign Rotax makes some good motors.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Coastrambler
Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2018 - 01:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Humm, am thinking that at this point the durability thing is set. As long as you change the oil now and then it'll last as long as it wants to. Parts availability will continue decline. That's somewhat due to the relatively small number built. I've learned more about it's electrical system than I would have liked to. The cooling system (LOL) leaves a bit to be desired. But WTF, I'm going to ride the SOB cause it is just so much fun to lean it into a turn and grab a handful of throttle.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Panshovevo
Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2018 - 06:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Fresnobuell, Halliday was hotdogging in his Icon A5 amphibian when he crashed in the Gulf of Mexico and killed himself.

No engine issues involved.

The only complaints Iíve heard about Rotax aircraft engines is that they donít make the power Rotax claims.

I personally suspect Rotax does direct coupling to the dyno, and field testing is frequently done with propellers installed, using strain gauges to measure torque and calculate horsepower.

The average difference, according to what Iíve heard, is within the percentage of propeller inefficiency.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Panshovevo
Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2018 - 06:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Flatheadbill, my second 1125 is an R that came to me with almost 20,000 miles on it.
It has seen a lot of track time.

It still runs like a bat out of hell, with more power than I know what to do with.

It will be getting a big bore kit after I get my behind in gear and do the same to the CR.

I picked up a spare motor from Jim Dugger, and have bought various other spare parts from 651Lance and other sources, and hope to keep at least one of them going for years to come.

(Message edited by Panshovevo on August 02, 2018)
« Previous Next »

Add Your Message Here
Post:
Bold text Italics Underline Create a hyperlink Insert a clipart image

Username: Posting Information:
This is a public posting area. Enter your username and password if you have an account. Otherwise, enter your full name as your username and leave the password blank. Your e-mail address is optional.
Password:
E-mail:
Options: Post as "Anonymous" (Valid reason required. Abusers will be exposed. If unsure, ask.)
Enable HTML code in message
Automatically activate URLs in message
Action:

Topics | Last Day | Tree View | Search | User List | Help/Instructions | Rules | Program Credits Administration