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Buell Forum » 1125R Superbike Board » Stator/Voltage Regulator/Charging System subforum » VR over charging only when in gear. Help? « Previous Next »

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Wesbronco
Posted on Saturday, October 07, 2017 - 02:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

In my quest to determine wtf is wrong with my VR setup (charging sys overhaul + sh847), it seems I can redline my bike and the Vch is a perfect 14.4 or 14.7. But the moment I get in gear and actually ride it, then I'm back at 15.1 to 16.1.

What gives? What is so different about being in gear than neutral as far as the charging system is concerned?
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Wesbronco
Posted on Sunday, October 08, 2017 - 03:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

After doing a field test, I have determined the battery isn't being overcharged as the IC would suggest. My volt meter read, at the post, only 14.x while the IC was screaming bloody murder.

Bad IC? ECU? Where is the bike reading the charging values?

Jack suggested I have a ground fault somewhere.
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Nuts4mc
Posted on Sunday, October 08, 2017 - 10:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

the bikes have a switch in the clutch lever...when the lever is engaged and the bike is put into gear the RPMs rise (controlled by the ECU and signals from neutral switch and clutch lever)....to read more go here:

http://badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290431/ 664447.html?1326234799

does your bike still have the "Harley/HD jumper" installed?...see this you tube movie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBYEYGJfyBw

the ignition switch wiring is not very "flexible"...the harness needs to be extended to increase reliability...does the voltage fluctuate when you turn the bars lock to lock?....go here - scroll way down for pix:

http://badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290431/ 651318.html?1316977313

re-seat the connector to the ECU?...it has many "pins"...this post may help ...it also links to the TPS reset that might help ...
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290 431/583759.html?1280977075
hth
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Wesbronco
Posted on Wednesday, October 18, 2017 - 12:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Definitely a grounding issue, assuming the IC doesn't require calibration.

To determine this, I ran a wired SAE connector coming out of the SH847 VR in parallel to the default port on the Buell. Rode it for a couple of days until the IC screamed and shut down (usually at around 15.4v+).

I pulled over, connected my altered multimeter to the SAE connector on the bike, put the multimeter in my ram mount and continue riding.

Two things happened:
1. The V on the multimeter reads 14.4 (+/- 0.1v) despite the IC reading high
2. The IC instantly, after connecting the multimeter, stablizes and no longer reads 15v+.

In fact, I have yet, in this week of non stop riding, been able to catch a 15v+ on the IC while I have my multimeter connected to the SH847.

When I remove the multimeter, it works fine for a few days, but everyday the V on the IC inches higher and higher, till one day its faulting at 15.4v+. Then I repeat the steps, connecting my multimeter (in order to determine if the true V coming out of the VR is indeed that high).

Everything stabilizes back to 14.5 ish after connecting the multimeter. So my best conclusion is my measurements are interfering with the results. Namely, my multimeter, is providing some "stability" or ground that enables the charging system to work correctly.

I haven't been able to find what is faulting. I've checked every stinking wire I can find and checked every bolt. I'm thinking about making a more permanent circuit to stabilize the ground. But the conclusion is the SH847 is working correctly.

Here's a crude pic


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Panshovevo
Posted on Wednesday, October 18, 2017 - 03:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Wes,
Shortly after I got my Ď09 CR, I was poking around in the wiring, checking connectors and grounds.

I donít remember exactly why I was checking, but it did run a little rough below 4500 rpm or so.

I checked all the grounds, pulled all the major connectors, and found nothing visibly wrong.

Since I was in there, I ran an extra 12 gauge wire from the engine to the negative side of the battery.

The next day, I took the wife for a ride. Within a few miles, she asked what I had done, it was running much better.

I can only assume it was the additional ground, but I never removed it to check.
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Wesbronco
Posted on Wednesday, October 18, 2017 - 04:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Pan,

If burning out my stator also severed some clean ground to the battery, I could see that being an issue.

Mind sharing with me where you introduced this new ground? I would love to duplicate your solution.
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Panshovevo
Posted on Wednesday, October 18, 2017 - 05:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

If I remember correctly, and Iím pretty sure I do, I put it on the left side of the front cylinder where four different ECM ground wires attach.
From there to the battery.

The odd thing is that all the ground connections I checked were clean and tight.
However, I have seen old cables on other bikes that looked fine, but under the heat shrink over the crimp, they were badly corroded.

(Message edited by Panshovevo on October 18, 2017)
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Araignee
Posted on Wednesday, October 18, 2017 - 09:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hey wesbronco, I followed the advice of another forum member and connected a ground cable from the post in front of the swingarm to an engine bolt as close to the starter as possible.

It takes about 40 inches of cable to allow routing over the engine. Manipulating the heavy cable to fit the ground stud in front of the swingarm is difficult, but can be done.

Google forum searches of this modification gave detailed explanations of the positive effects, such as eliminating hot start problems.

Ground faults and hidden corrosion problems are common on motorcycles, which expose their electronics to vibration, weather, road debris, heat, etc.

Use of dielectric grease on ground terminals can help.

Try the wiggle test of any connections your analysis shows are in the circuit. I spent a great deal of my visit to Sturgis in 1990 getting laughed at by passing HD riders. Part of the abuse was because I was riding a Norton Commando Interstate. Part of it was the pool of sweat I created while trying to kickstart the confounded contraption. This was a daily occurrence while I was there.

All the wires seemed OK, but the problem recurred just often enough to drive me a bit nuts. Many of my days included the scenario of me sitting exhausted in sweaty leathers on the curb next to a beautiful Norton that wouldn't stay lit for money or love.

Finally, I got frustrated enough to wiggle all the wires I could reach, just to be irritating, and to my surprise and embarrassment, one of the wires "attached" to the coils happily danced the freedom dance. I became a good connection vigilante, and that steely-eyed stance has served me well ever since.

Hope you solve your problem soonest.
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Wesbronco
Posted on Wednesday, October 18, 2017 - 10:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Where is the ECM ground? My manual says it should be connected to a bolt here, but I see nothing. (see pic)



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Wesbronco
Posted on Thursday, October 19, 2017 - 12:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Never mind, I see it. It seems to be tucked way up in there behind a radiator hose. They must have taken the picture in the manual with everything removed.

How ever did you manage to access it? Were you turning the engine or something? That seems a bit excessive for my level. I wonder if I can find a different screw?
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Terrys1980
Posted on Saturday, October 21, 2017 - 10:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

As long as your not putting the dielectric grease between the mating surfaces of the ground wire and block...
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Wesbronco
Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2017 - 01:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

So far this seems to have worked. Still keeping an eye on it, but the bike has yet to give a system voltage error since tossing a 3ft ground cable in the mix from the battery to the engine block. Few weeks going now, and a lot of riding.

At first, the fuel gauge errored out for two days straight. Everytime I'd power up the bike I'd get a Low Fuel Sensor error for about 5 minutes. That went away, and no new errors since, and the low fuel light comes up right on time (i keep manual track of my mileage and fuel consumption, so I have a record to compare)

The elec system on this bike may indeed just be a bad design.

I do get a "SERVICE NOW" message on my bike when I first turn the key, but it's not throwing any errors, so I don't know what that's about. Maybe a routine maintenance message? Anyway, thanks for the fix.
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Mhpalin
Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2017 - 01:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

You have to reset your service reminder every time you service the bike it's in the owners manual,which is posted at the top of the main page
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