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Ninjanife
Posted on Thursday, October 05, 2017 - 08:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

First off, I want to say that I love this forum and all of the information you guys have compiled..I have been a reader for years, even though this is my first post : )

Now onto the sad part...over the last couple of years I have been having issues with the battery draining on my 2008 1125R, and I can't figure out what is causing it : ( I have replaced the battery twice (official HD battery), and both times it has drained to the point of not being able to start within a few weeks, even during the summer months. If I put it on the tender for a few hours it'll be fine for a few weeks, and then it has issues again...and the problems get much worse as the weather cools down.

Here is what I have come up with so so far based on your forums and random testing:

1. Almost everything I have found on Google talks about the 2009+ stator charging issue, which I shouldn't have with my 2008, so I don't think it is the stator.

2. I have been shutting the bike off using the On/Off switch for the last few months, and the issue is still persistent..plus I have the 2009/2010 IC, so I think that isn't the issue either.

3. I have HID headlights on the low beams (ones that match the original wattage, or at least claim to) and almost never use the high beams, so I don't think this is the issue.

4. I have the EBR Race ECM, which, I read (here) today might be causing the fans to run longer than normal after shutting the bike off. This seems very likely as I do a lot of 5-10min rides to/from school and around the city, and the fans love to stay on 15-30sec after the bike is shut off.

5. The voltage reading on my IC fluctuates anywhere from 11.5V to 14.0V while riding; mostly it's higher when I am riding harder but it gets to ~12-13V even when doing normal cruising and gets as low as 12V when in the city/going through stop lights.

At this point I have to put it on the tender every once in a while, which isn't terrible but it's a hassle I would rather not have to deal with...especially when I end up getting stranded somewhere every time that the battery decides to be just a bit too low to start the bike on the final leg home haha. I live in an apartment and I don't have a garage, so regularly plugging the tender in is difficult.

I have additionally read that the voltage regulator could be replaced with a newer one or having a hole EDM'd into the stator, but I mostly found references to 2009 models...I have no idea if that is something that would help my 2008, and would rather not spend money on it if I am not sure it will help (student budget lol). Does anyone have any ideas?

Thanks for the help : )

Brendan "NinjaNife" West

*EDIT*
If anyone can give me a definitive list of what mods actually help the 2008 charging system, that would be amazing..the threads here and in other forums online don't seem to be clear as to if mods help the 2008, or only the 2009+ model years. I understand that they are required for the 2009+ in many cases, but I don't know if they help the 2008 at all. Thanks again!

(Message edited by ninjanife on October 06, 2017)
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Nuts4mc
Posted on Friday, October 06, 2017 - 03:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

add an extra ground...here's a link of mine with pix:
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290 431/674577.html?1333846568

Series type (only do not use a MOSFET)voltage regulator:
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290 431/767298.html?1465768856

here is where to buy one:
http://www.roadstercycle.com/#SH847_SERIES_RR_KITS _ARE_NOW_AVAILABLE_

here is one way to mount it:
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290 431/724751.html?1388956856

might look into a voltage display:
https://www.amazon.com/bayite-Digital-Voltmeter-Di splay-Motorcycle/dp/B00YALUXH0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8& qid=1507316915&sr=8-1&keywords=small+led+voltage+d isplay

and a Li battery ( Shorai used to support the EBR racing team)
https://shoraipower.com/products?action=vehicle&ty pe=175&make=352923&model=352924&year=352924

also might want to check the stator connection to the rest of the bike harness ( 3 yellow wires to big grey connector)...scroll down for some pix:
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290431/762826.html?1504649031

HTH

(Message edited by nuts4mc on October 06, 2017)
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Ninjanife
Posted on Saturday, October 07, 2017 - 12:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks for the response! I have a few followup questions, just so that I fully understand:


quote:

Series type (only do not use a MOSFET)voltage regulator:
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290 431/767298.html?1465768856

here is where to buy one:
http://www.roadstercycle.com/#SH847_SERIES_RR_KITS _ARE_NOW_AVAILABLE_



How does this help the 2008? I understood from other posts that this regulator is more efficient and is able to dissipate more excess voltage (such as the 2009+ models generate), thus protecting the stator. However, I don't know how this would affect the 2008 since it has a lower stator output in the first place...is it able to bring down the minimum charging RPM so I don't have to be riding hard to charge? Just curious.


quote:

might look into a voltage display:
https://www.amazon.com/bayite-Digital-Voltmeter-Di splay-Motorcycle/dp/B00YALUXH0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8& qid=1507316915&sr=8-1&keywords=small+led+voltage+d isplay



My IC has a voltage reader on it; can you please explain how this one would be different?


quote:

and a Li battery ( Shorai used to support the EBR racing team)
https://shoraipower.com/products?action=vehicle&ty pe=175&make=352923&model=352924&year=352924



I'll definitely look into this, thanks.
Have you heard of the EarthX LiFePO4 batteries? From what I have read about them they have some kind of load balancing that makes recharging them easier (vs the Shorai batteries which I guess need a special charger if they drain too much)..is that something worth getting for twice the price? I feel like it probably isn't but I don't know how important the load balancing thing actually is lol.

Thanks again for your help!

Brendan "NinjaNife" West

(Message edited by ninjanife on October 08, 2017)
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Nuts4mc
Posted on Sunday, October 08, 2017 - 01:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

shunt vs series VR, see here (scroll down):

http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290 431/786197.html?1464840992

out here in the hot south west...I have the display showing temp (Cylinder head temp/Air temp)all the time...the voltage display gives me feedback on charging and the efficiency of cooling of the rear mounted VR.

Only issue on Shorai vs EarthX that I could find was terminal connection...it appears from what I have read that the terminals on the Earthx are bigger ( battery wiring is a concern on the 1125...the Earthx brand may be a better choice due to that design feature) ...note Li batteries don't like the cold...you may have to bring yours inside during the winter months
hth
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Robertl
Posted on Thursday, October 19, 2017 - 11:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The series regulator should help in all situations. Many discuss mounting it where it gets plenty of air flow also.

The only other thing I can think of on the 2008 would be to reduce load.

Fans are necessity so cutting those off or running less is not an option on these bikes.
Headlights are next and those could be switched to LED to reduce the load needed to power them?
Not sure there is anything else we can do on the 2008s other than all the work to upgrade to the 2009+ system with mods.

I'm scared to install volt meter on mine I might go into a panic...lol.
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Froggy
Posted on Thursday, October 19, 2017 - 02:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)


quote:

Fans are necessity so cutting those off or running less is not an option on these bikes.




I raised the "ON" temperatures by 10 degrees Celsius, which from my testing was enough to make it so the fans don't kick in nearly as often, and most days they are not running at all at highway speeds. My 08 especially seems happier given the lower output stator. The I left the off temperatures the same, it quickly cools off then shuts the fan off.
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Ninjanife
Posted on Friday, October 20, 2017 - 09:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)


quote:

shunt vs series VR, see here (scroll down):

http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290 431/786197.html?1464840992

out here in the hot south west...I have the display showing temp (Cylinder head temp/Air temp)all the time...the voltage display gives me feedback on charging and the efficiency of cooling of the rear mounted VR.

Only issue on Shorai vs EarthX that I could find was terminal connection...it appears from what I have read that the terminals on the Earthx are bigger ( battery wiring is a concern on the 1125...the Earthx brand may be a better choice due to that design feature) ...note Li batteries don't like the cold...you may have to bring yours inside during the winter months
hth



Thanks for the info Nuts4mc! I have been looking into it more myself and thinking about my options, and I have decided to get the SH847 over the winter break for starters to see how it helps. I'm going to wait on the battery for now...my budget only lets me make one $200+ purchase every few months haha. Fingers crossed that it'll help my issue, and then I can get a new battery once I'm sure the charging system is working optimally : )

One more question (if you see this)...when I am starting the bike, the headlights seem to shut off while the starter is going. Is this planned, or is the battery literally struggling so badly that the lights die temporarily? Either way, can I make the lights stay off until the bike is running (since HID's take a lot of power when first turning on; I think they might be partially draining the battery right before I attempt to start it)? I unplugged the headlights to test it a bit and the bike started up much more easily...perhaps I need LED lights instead of HID?


quote:

The series regulator should help in all situations. Many discuss mounting it where it gets plenty of air flow also.

The only other thing I can think of on the 2008 would be to reduce load.

Fans are necessity so cutting those off or running less is not an option on these bikes.
Headlights are next and those could be switched to LED to reduce the load needed to power them?
Not sure there is anything else we can do on the 2008s other than all the work to upgrade to the 2009+ system with mods.

I'm scared to install volt meter on mine I might go into a panic...lol.



That's what I'm hoping to do - reduce load. I have been thinking about LED headlights for a while, but I haven't been able to determine which ones are good for the Buell...do you have any suggestions? On that note, do LED headlights use less power than HIDs? I know that they should use less power inherently, but they all seam to have the fans and such to keep them from overheating...and I'm not sure if that ends up using more power or not lol.


quote:

I raised the "ON" temperatures by 10 degrees Celsius, which from my testing was enough to make it so the fans don't kick in nearly as often, and most days they are not running at all at highway speeds. My 08 especially seems happier given the lower output stator. The I left the off temperatures the same, it quickly cools off then shuts the fan off.



How did you raise the "ON" temp? I read in one thread that EBR can adjust that, but they're gone..again...and I don't really want to pay a lot of money to get it flashed if I don't have to.

I have been thinking about trying to get the fans to turn on later/shut off earlier, but I wasn't sure what effect that would have on the engine. The fans running after the bike is off is mostly what concerns me; can you explain why the fans are on for 15-30sec after the bike is shut off (I have the EBR Race ECM, which I read keeps the fans on longer after engine off - is this necessary)? Cars don't do that, nor any of my friend's bikes, so I am confused why ours requires it. Can the fan time be set to something like "10sec max after engine off" (or less), or would that damage the engine somehow?

Thanks again for the help everyone!

Brendan "NinjaNife" West

*EDIT*
Does anyone know of a wire that is only hot (electrified) when the engine is actually running, but is off the rest of the time?

(Message edited by ninjanife on October 20, 2017)
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Dennis_c
Posted on Friday, October 20, 2017 - 06:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

On 1125R there is an acc. plug behind the headlight
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Ninjanife
Posted on Saturday, October 21, 2017 - 09:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)


quote:

On 1125R there is an acc. plug behind the headlight



Hmm...in the electrical manual it seems to indicate that the power is present as long as the kill switch and key are both in the run position, regardless of whether the engine is running or not. I will have to check it out myself I guess; thanks for the tip : )

Brendan "NinjaNife" West
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Nuts4mc
Posted on Tuesday, October 24, 2017 - 11:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

so many questions...
a) I don't remember if there is a relay supporting the headlight "on" function ...the ECM does a lot of things to this bike from an electrical stand point...the experiment you ran concerning starting ( dis-connected the head lights) would make me believe that the headlights come "on" as soon as you turn the key.
b) raising the "on" temp" requires hacking into the ECM...there is a product called "ECM-Spy" that may still be available...use the Google search at the top of this page to learn more.
c) HIDs vs LED...yes LEDs do use less current , but do they have the power to light the road? some new cars ( mainly electric powered cars ) have these new head lights, some new Honda MCs ( new Goldwing) may have them...there are aftermarket kits available on E-bay...but NOTE! most LED headlights have to have a cooling fan and the "length" of the "bulb" may be too long to fit in the 1125r's fairing...I use HIDs from here:

http://www.ddmtuning.com/index.php

they also carry LED headlights...but look too long...

here is a well known electrical specialist for motorcycles that has a LED headlight with no fans...

http://electricalconnection.com/index.php/product/ led-headlight-bulb-h7-honda-type-gl1800-f6b/

start saving those pennies!

hth
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Ninjanife
Posted on Wednesday, October 25, 2017 - 08:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)


quote:

so many questions...
a) I don't remember if there is a relay supporting the headlight "on" function ...the ECM does a lot of things to this bike from an electrical stand point...the experiment you ran concerning starting ( dis-connected the head lights) would make me believe that the headlights come "on" as soon as you turn the key.
b) raising the "on" temp" requires hacking into the ECM...there is a product called "ECM-Spy" that may still be available...use the Google search at the top of this page to learn more.
c) HIDs vs LED...yes LEDs do use less current , but do they have the power to light the road? some new cars ( mainly electric powered cars ) have these new head lights, some new Honda MCs ( new Goldwing) may have them...there are aftermarket kits available on E-bay...but NOTE! most LED headlights have to have a cooling fan and the "length" of the "bulb" may be too long to fit in the 1125r's fairing...I use HIDs from here:

http://www.ddmtuning.com/index.php

they also carry LED headlights...but look too long...

here is a well known electrical specialist for motorcycles that has a LED headlight with no fans...

http://electricalconnection.com/index.php/product/ led-headlight-bulb-h7-honda-type-gl1800-f6b/

start saving those pennies!

hth



Haha sorry about all the questions; that's the engineer in me wanting to know as much detail as possible...and even with all of the posts on this forum, I have trouble telling what information applies to which model year since Buell changed the electrical harnesses around.

I will definitely look into the LED headlights a bit more, but for now I purchased a delay relay which will prevent the low-beam headlights from receiving power immediately at key on. It's not ideal, as it isn't a dynamic "when engine is running" thing, but it'll give me a bit more confidence that the HID's won't be draining the battery immediately before I hit the starter.

The OCD part of me refuses to cut the electrical harness though, so I'm having to make an additional subharness that will have the relay in it

Thanks again for the help!

Brendan "NinjaNife" West
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Clk92vette
Posted on Wednesday, October 25, 2017 - 03:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I don't have any advice to offer at this point but I am in the same boat as you and about to try to figure out the issue. If I ride every other day to work on my '08, 20 miles each way-90% at highway speeds, I have to recharge my battery about every two weeks. I took my son on a trip recently to Marblehead Ohio on a nice warm mid 70's degree day, and the charge light kept coming on during the 110 mile trip home while running 80-85 MPH. This is my second '08, totaled the first one thanks to too much lean angle and lukewarm tires, and my first bike had the exact same issue. I intend to dig into this over the Ohio winter and get it fixed. I really like this bike, but the charging system issues are quite annoying.
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Mhpalin
Posted on Wednesday, October 25, 2017 - 07:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

That's weird both my 1125s have 08 charging systems stock regulators and original battery's.l keep them on battery tender's when parked and always ride at 5000 rpm
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Ninjanife
Posted on Thursday, October 26, 2017 - 08:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)


quote:

I don't have any advice to offer at this point but I am in the same boat as you and about to try to figure out the issue. If I ride every other day to work on my '08, 20 miles each way-90% at highway speeds, I have to recharge my battery about every two weeks. I took my son on a trip recently to Marblehead Ohio on a nice warm mid 70's degree day, and the charge light kept coming on during the 110 mile trip home while running 80-85 MPH. This is my second '08, totaled the first one thanks to too much lean angle and lukewarm tires, and my first bike had the exact same issue. I intend to dig into this over the Ohio winter and get it fixed. I really like this bike, but the charging system issues are quite annoying.



Glad to hear I'm not the only one with these issues haha. Do you have any mods (i.e. HID headlights or something) that could be causing extra battery drain?


quote:

That's weird both my 1125s have 08 charging systems stock regulators and original battery's.l keep them on battery tender's when parked and always ride at 5000 rpm



I think if I kept it on the tender when parked I would never see the issue. However, that's not possible since at the moment I live in a University apartment..I have to leave it parked on my sidewalk to charge it on the tender, and that isn't *technically* allowed...so I try to do it only when absolutely necessary. Regardless, I don't believe that we should have to leave it on a tender whenever it isn't running just to keep the battery from dying over time. I'm pretty sure Buell agreed with me (perhaps for other reasons as well), or they wouldn't have made the '09-10 stators much stronger (even though those had their own issues).

Brendan "NinjaNife" West
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Mhpalin
Posted on Thursday, October 26, 2017 - 05:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

My 09 with the 08 stator and rotor charges between 13.6 and 14.2 all the time.Do you shut the bike off with the kill button then turn the key off? My buddy with a 08 is working a 14-7 shift and doesn't keep it on a tender and is not having any problems.All our riding is highway and like I posted we keep the bikes above 5,000 rpm.Buell put the higher output stator in the 09s because of the drain the early instrument cluster had which was stopped by using the kill button first when shutting the bike 0ff.I use battery tenders on all my bikes they seem to give me longer battery life.I don,t know if you are but try shutting the bike off with the kill button first then the key.
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Dennis_c
Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2017 - 03:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have LED headlights with no fan work great better light no warm up like HID +30 watt each bulb Hi and low beam
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Ninjanife
Posted on Sunday, October 29, 2017 - 08:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)


quote:

My 09 with the 08 stator and rotor charges between 13.6 and 14.2 all the time.Do you shut the bike off with the kill button then turn the key off? My buddy with a 08 is working a 14-7 shift and doesn't keep it on a tender and is not having any problems.All our riding is highway and like I posted we keep the bikes above 5,000 rpm.Buell put the higher output stator in the 09s because of the drain the early instrument cluster had which was stopped by using the kill button first when shutting the bike 0ff.I use battery tenders on all my bikes they seem to give me longer battery life.I don,t know if you are but try shutting the bike off with the kill button first then the key.



Yes I have been shutting off with the kill button first; however, wasn't that only a problem with '08 bikes? I replaced the IC with the updated '10 version, so (as far as I understand) that shouldn't be an issue anymore anyway. Is this not the case?


quote:

I have LED headlights with no fan work great better light no warm up like HID +30 watt each bulb Hi and low beam



Which LED headlights are you using? Can you post a make/model/link?

Brendan "NinjaNife" West
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