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Hybridmomentspass
Posted on Monday, June 12, 2017 - 11:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Always had luck with the HD batteries in my tube-framed Buell...but what about the 1125?

Im needing a battery, and quick, what should I look for?

Have bought cheap batteries from Amazon, the ones where you have to pour the chemical in the battery yourself and then seal...worked fine, but that was on dirtbikes

But want to make sure that I buy something that will work for the VTwin well

Suggestions?
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Dannybuell
Posted on Monday, June 12, 2017 - 12:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

caged nut batteries are too cheap.

The company does HD's batteries is:
I use their Deka label in my area...

http://www.eastpennmanufacturing.com/


where to buy...
http://www.eastpennmanufacturing.com/contact/#wtb
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Froggy
Posted on Monday, June 12, 2017 - 12:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Harley batteries used to be great, often lasting the better part of a decade as long as you didn't kill them, but my last few stopped reliably working in a little over a year.

Now I am running Duracell batteries from Batteries + Bulbs, they are a nationwide chain and they have 2 year warranties.

https://www.batteriesplus.com/battery/motorcycle/b uell/1125r/1125cc/2008/cyl10013

Looks like the price went up since I last bought one but they are still cheaper than from Harley, and likely easier to get.
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Willmrx
Posted on Monday, June 12, 2017 - 05:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have good luck with Motorbatt. Good price, a litter lighter than stock and has four terminals.
http://www.motobatt.com/



battery
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Panshovevo
Posted on Monday, June 12, 2017 - 09:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

My 1125CR came to me with a Shorai LiPo battery. Don't recall the part number off the top of my head, but it has the equivalent of 270 cold cranking amps, and weighs about 10 lbs less than a stock type battery.

They are more expensive, and if you want to be sure of proper charging, it's better to buy the Shorai charger, but it's not mandatory. There are just a few things you have to avoid in a charger, and one is a trickle charger that will let the battery run too far down before recharging.

If you go to Shorai's web site, and to their FAQ page, it tells you what you need to know.

Something I have noticed, especially when the engine and battery are cold, it starts better if you turn the key switch and headlight on for 15 seconds or so to warm the battery before trying the starter.
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Buell3some
Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2017 - 01:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I agree with Dannybuell as i am a big fan of Eastpenn manufacturing batteries. I replaced the battery in my 1125R 2 yrs ago with the Deka ETX14L and the cranking power is amazing. They are rated at 220CCA but actually read much higher when i periodically check it with my electronic load tester.

Sometimes they are also marketed under the "Big Crank" name which is the same as the Deka ETX series. I just replaced the battery in my old S3T with a Deka ETX20L.
Another nice feature is that they have an extra threaded hole for auxilliary power which i used for my gps.

I have also used a Motobatt in my Triumph Tiger and had good results with it as well. As Willmrx stated they have a 4 terminal hookup makes it very versatile for connecting gadgets as most Tiger owners tend to do. Good luck in your decision.
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Hybridmomentspass
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2017 - 05:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"Another nice feature is that they have an extra threaded hole for auxilliary power which i used for my gps. "

Never thought of that before, would make adding things a lot easier
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Onetuford
Posted on Friday, June 23, 2017 - 09:39 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I used the Napa battery. Not sure who makes it but it worked great in my XB9R. Made in the USA if that matters much to ya...

(Message edited by onetuford on June 23, 2017)
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Smorgasgeorge
Posted on Friday, June 30, 2017 - 11:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Just installed a Motobatt to replace a limping HD battery, and while I can't speak to how long it will last, it does the job. $97 shipped USPS priority from Impact Battery with no core charge.

I saw some videos about how difficult the terminals were to screw on with the hardware included, and I had no problem whatsoever. If you can screw the seat back on, you could put the terminals on in your sleep.
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Zac4mac
Posted on Sunday, July 09, 2017 - 12:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I just replaced my 09 Uly's original battery.
It would still start the bike everytime but the trip meter started to reset from the voltage drop.
My 08 1125R still has the original battery, but I haven't started her for a couple of years.
She'll get a new LiFePO when I finally do the 1190 kit.

Z
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Panshovevo
Posted on Sunday, July 09, 2017 - 01:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Zack, I just got an 1190 kit too. This thread seems to have run it's original course, so I doubt the OP would mind a highjack.

Are you willing to share what your plans are for fueling and exhaust?

I see the 1190 "swirl" intake cams on the LAP LIquidation list, and various ECMs, but I don't believe there are any of the race exhaust headers left.

I see 1190 throttle bodies with the shower head injectors on EBay,

On the other hand, a racer I've been talking to says he liked a converted 1125 motor better than the 1190RX (THAT'S RX, NOT RS) motor. He didn't know for sure what all had been done to it though.

I've also seen an adjustable exhaust cam gear listed, that says it goes with other race parts, but doesn't elaborate.
I guess there have been a lot of trick mods made to the race engines...probably wouldn't be much good on the street though.

I'd love to know more about the adjustable exhaust cam gear. I know a bit about the benefits of adjusting intake timing, particularly the intake close event, but not about the exhaust.

Edited to correct RS to RX AGAIN!

(Message edited by Panshovevo on July 10, 2017)
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Zac4mac
Posted on Monday, July 10, 2017 - 05:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Haven't thought it out that far yet, John.
When things slow down, I will take one of the 1125 crate motors I got and do the 1190 kit on it.
I also got a couple of sets of RX heads, one full of valves and cams.
I'll have a look at the heads I got tomorrow and get some pix.

Z
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Stevel
Posted on Monday, July 10, 2017 - 06:30 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

John,
The adjustable cam gear was made by Andrews for EBR. Andrews would not sell these. (Proprietary rights) EBR never advertised these being available on their website. When asking about them, I never got a straight answer. When LAP started selling EBR parts and assets, I located the part number and ordered two. They were standard equipment on the RS.

In order to benefit from these, you have to know what your valve timing is and what you want it to be. You can change the valve center point and overlap. You can shift the valve timing slightly, but that's all. You must be very careful, as even slight changes can cause severe damage with either piston to valve clearance and/or cam drive train stress. You will need special tools and experience. If you don't have them, you don't need these gears.

I keep reading about this swirl shit. It's BS. I'll try to be brief, but the subject requires several pages. Swirl is a type of turbulence descriptor. Swirl does not exist on poppet valve engines. There is nothing that generates it. Poppet valve engines create tumble, not swirl. It is first created as the air passes the valve button and senses the low pressure area at the center of the valve head. This tumble is then accelerated as the piston rises on the compression stroke. Swirl exists on port fed 2 cycle engines via angled ports aka, Detroit Diesel.

On the subject of throttle bodies, IDS has fuel map for the 1190 that will work with the 1125 throttle body. If you use the shower head, you will need to modify all the fuel lines. The fuel fittings, fuel lines or the special tools to assemble them are not available. The shower head injectors do not fit in the 1125 air box. (big job) I am not certain the shower head adds value. I have both and I will test at some point.
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Panshovevo
Posted on Monday, July 10, 2017 - 11:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks for your input, guys.

Stevel, are the adjustable cam gears definitely for the exhaust cams? I know they are identified as such on the LIquidation list, but I can't help wondering.

I certainly can't claim to have read all of the basic and advanced four stroke tuning books out there, in spite of the number of them that have been recommended to me by various people.
However, most of what I have read focuses on using the intake closing point to manipulate the power band, and in conjunction with the static compression ratio, determine the low speed driveability versus the high rpm power.
I'm aware of the significance of valve overlap, although I don't know everything I should know about how to make it work to the best advantage.
Lobe separation angle is a factor, but there obviously is more I need to learn.

What I have read on the subject of what is commonly called swirl is that it enhances the mixing of the fuel and air, and contributes to a more homogeneous mixture, which will burn more evenly and consistently.
Some say it contributes to volumetric efficiency.
I have to wonder about that.
.
I think that having good squish area all around the perimeter of the cylinder is at least as important for air/fuel mixing, and preventing any raw fuel from getting segregated from the flame propagation area.

There are a number of people trying to get big horsepower out of Harley shovelheads.
It can be done, but is much more difficult than getting the same amount of power out of an Evolution or a Twin Cam engine.
The Evos have a large squish area on one side of the chamber, and the twin cams have a bathtub shaped chamber with a squish area on two sides.

I'm not sure about the latest version, the Milwaukee Eight, but they've finally gone to four valves per cylinder, so that should be progress.

The problem with Harley is they are constantly trying to make an old basic design run cleaner every year, and have had to keep increasing the displacement to try to maintain a level of power that hasn't changed significantly in years.

Up until last year, when they were forced to settle with the EPA to the 'tune' of $12 million, they would push aftermarket parts, particularly fuel injection tuners that would increase the horsepower of the bikes, but would also increase the exhaust emissions to levels unacceptable to the EPA.
Aftermarket companies have been hit with the same government extortion, some much worse than Harley. Aftermarket exhaust companies, companies that make replacement ECMs or add-on devices that alter the emissions from stock...

Harley had to agree to void the warranty of any 2017 or later bike that has any parts installed that alter anything that requires EPA certification. Noise levels, exhaust emissions....
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Stevel
Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2017 - 04:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

John,
The drive gear on the intake cam is to adjust the cam to crank phasing. If you employ the adjustable gear on the exhaust cam, it allows you to adjust the phasing of the intake cam to the exhaust cam. In combination, you can center both cams to the crank in an advanced or retarded position. The value of this is to compensate for cam profile grinding and drive index errors, not for tuning for power. When tuning for power, the user can expect more effective adjustment range on shorter duration profiles than long duration ones. These errors are more often seen on short run production scenarios like one-off racing cams. Generally, advancing the valve train shifts the torque curve downwards. Retarding the valve train shifts the torque curve upwards. Spreading the valve centers decreases the effect of overlap or in other words the exhaust pipe effect (reflected vacuum) on the intake port. Closing up the centers increases the effect of valve overlap.

Keep in mind that gas travel within the engine is not a one way street. Both intake and exhaust gas flow undergoes significant direction reversal, referred to as reversion. It is unavoidable. It is what causes exhaust ash contamination in the intakes ports and throttle bodies. By placing your hand over the exhaust pipe, this gas reversal is easily felt. If you were to drill a hole in the intake port and stick your finger in that hole, you will feel the same thing. The force can be great enough to almost tear your finger off. (ask me how I know this) If you were to apply a bright light behind an engine on a test dyno and that engine was equipped with shower injectors, you would see a cloud of fuel vapor above the throttle bodies during a power pull. It would be very clear to the observer that the injected fuel from one shower head was being shared by the other throttle body next to it. Think about trying to tune for that!

This gas reversion can be beneficial or detrimental. It depends greatly on engine speed and port gas velocity. This is why port shape and volume is so critical. It is about using gas column inertia for free supercharging. This is also why the use of a flow bench is so subjective. A flow bench cannot emulate reversion. It is next to impossible to apply instrumentation to make this optimization objective.

The bottom line is all about thermal efficiency or the extraction of all the available heat from a given fuel charge. There is a general rule that states that if the ingested fuel is not burning before the piston changes direction, it will likely pass into the exhaust as unburnt fuel. The actual pressure that is applied to the piston is a product of the temperature differential between the incoming air charge and the exhaust gas temperature. My point here is that an internal combustion engine is a hot air motor. It is the expansion of the air charge due to the heating of it that generates the cylinder pressure, not the exhaust gases from combustion. The relationship between temperature and pressure is linear. With an ideal gas the ratio is about 30 to 1, but atmospheric air is not an ideal gas, so the actual expansion ratio is about 25 to 1. With just that tidbit of information it is possible to calculate, cylinder pressure and exhaust column volume at the port and as temperature drops, throughout the exhaust system as well as pipe velocity along the way. That said, the biggest problem is piston dwell time. It is unfortunately much less at TDC that at BDC. This is the primary reason why low speed engines have much better fuel efficiency than high speed engines. It is not uncommon to see .28 lbs. per HP/hour in ship engines that have a max speed of 100 rpm, but high speed engines struggle to do better than .5 lbs. per HP/hour.

(Message edited by steve-l on July 12, 2017)

(Message edited by steve-l on July 12, 2017)
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Stevel
Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2017 - 06:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

(To Continue)
Combustion chamber shape and squish area forces the fuel/air mixture into a physically smaller space to speed flame spread. Unfortunately 4 valve heads use a pent roof chamber that eliminates any squish area making flame propagation even more difficult. This is a compromise that sacrifices thermal efficiency for volumetric efficiency. There are two schools of thought, Mixture homogeneity and mixture stratification. It is almost impossible to achieve consistent homogeneity although there is a lot of research being done on HCCI (Homogeneous Charge Compression Ignition), but without a great deal of success. The more common scheme is stratified charge, where the flame spreads rapidly along the rich stratified fuel lines within the mixture. This is where turbulence in the combustion chamber is your friend. The greater the turbulence, the faster the flame spread. Turbulence is a product of port velocity, stroke length and piston shape. Large bores, short strokes and low turbulence hurts flame speed. This can easily be observed by viewing the spark advance required for a given design. IE BBC 42 to 44 degrees. SBC 37 degrees, HD V Twin 35 degrees.

Unintended consequences. Advancing the valve train timing increases the dynamic CR, as the actual compression stroke starts earlier, but the exhaust valve also opens earlier. Opening the exhaust valve under cylinder pressure takes a great deal more force placing a huge strain on the cam drive chain. On one of my first EVO hot rod motors I used a Crane cam with a profile like 20 50, 50 20. The motor also used a set of Crane aluminum push rods. I elected to advance the cam 3 degrees and promptly collapsed all the exhaust push rods..... that much force. The lesson.... never use aluminum push rods and be very careful advancing the cam!

So, there is a lot going on and before ANY modifications are done to any engine, you need to understand everything that will change. There is no such thing as bolt on horsepower. What you change on one end of the motor will normally require changes on the other end as well. Everything is a compromise. The internal combustion engine has been around 120 yrs. Everything that can be done has been done before. The guys that design these things are pretty smart folks. Advances are being made, but as a product of new materials, not new ideas.
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Panshovevo
Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2017 - 11:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks for that, Steve. I'm going to reread it tomorrow when I'm not falling asleep...

The only Evo motor I've built so far was a 96", using an S&S Hot Setup Kit, then after 4000 miles, swapping to domed pistons and adding Super Stock heads, pulling the 561 cam, and bolting in a 585.

All by the book...except for the cam, and it was all still proven compatible by their testing.

I picked up one of their 145" Evo style engines a couple years ago, but haven't done anything with it yet. It's close to two inches taller than a stock Evo.
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Rogjake
Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2017 - 03:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Another +1 for Deka battery. It works great and has long life.
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