| Author | Message | ||
     Dualbuells |
Okay, so I've been having issues with fueling, It starts and idles fine but rolling on the throttle it bogs down and sometimes stalls. I've replaced the TPS, fuel pressure sensor, new fuel pump, in process of checking the other three grounds. I'm tired of wrenching on this dam thing instead of riding it. I will get back on the fault error codes it is throwing, but has anybody else experienced these symptoms and what was the cure. I'm ready to sell this and get something reliable like a Honda CB1000R or something. I'm also having similar issues with my EBR 1190SX, can't ride that bitch either can't get any service for either bike this sucks! EBR tech has been throwing out things for me to check, nearest EBR dealer to me is 7 hours away in Wisconsin! This dualbuells is about to become NOBUELLS if this shit keeps up! | ||
| Two_seasons |
Tim: This is the best Buell web site out there. Someone likely will be able to help you. Know this, when they are running right, nothing else compares! | ||
| Stimbrell |
Just a thought but I had a similar issue with a bike years ago and it turned out to be water in the fuel, the reason I mention this is you say you have two bikes with the same issue and I do not believe in coincidence, did you get fuel for both bikes at the same place? Good luck finding the problems. | ||
| Dualbuells |
I've owned Buells since 2008, I'm sorry but having best website doesn't compare to good dealer tech services available IMHO. I'm not afraid to dig in attempt to fix things myself, but after a while if I spend more time wrenching than riding it,there is a limit. Stembrel- the process of changing the fuel pump requires emptying the gas tank to replace it, I replaced with fresh fuel when I completed the job. Fyi, fuel pump for 1125 cost $240.00, the EBR fuel pump is $700 when you add shipping to it. For as much shit talked about HD, I never once in 42K miles did I ever have mechanical problems with my RoadKing custom before i sold it and bought a Buell. I've had more issues with the two Buell and now my EBR, than all the other bikes I have ever owned. I own bikes to ride them, not wrench on them . I have enjoyed riding the Buell/EBR when they run, that's the shit of it all! I just wanna be done with wrenching and ride em like I stole em'. Major bummer! | ||
| Dualbuells |
I've owned Buells since 2008, I'm sorry but having best website doesn't compare to good dealer tech services available IMHO. I'm not afraid to dig in attempt to fix things myself, but after a while if I spend more time wrenching than riding it,there is a limit. Stimbrell- the process of changing the fuel pump requires emptying the gas tank to replace it, I replaced with fresh fuel when I completed the job. Fyi, fuel pump for 1125 cost $240.00, the EBR fuel pump is $700 when you add shipping to it. For as much shit talked about HD, I never once in 42K miles did I ever have mechanical problems with my RoadKing custom before i sold it and bought a Buell. I've had more issues with the two Buell and now my EBR, than all the other bikes I have ever owned. I own bikes to ride them, not wrench on them . I have enjoyed riding the Buell/EBR when they run, that's the shit of it all! I just wanna be done with wrenching and ride em like I stole em'. Major bummer! | ||
| Fresnobuell |
IF it was the choice between a HD and not riding a motorcycle, I would stop riding. I just don't see the point in riding a bike that has no balls and scrapes the pegs at 10 degrees of lean angle. | ||
| Dualbuells |
That's not my point at all, although I agree with you totally! Buell makes an incredible ride no doubt about it, why does a motorcycle have mechanical issues with less than two years of it's inception. I'm sorry if I have tweaked Buell, my point is I do enjoy RIDING them not WRENCHING on them! Currently there is NO support except what others experience and POTENTIALLY may fix my current issues. All I want to do is fix it and ride the thing, beyond that I could care less what anybodies opinion about ANY other motorcycle brand. If a guy who rides Buell/EBR can't rant on a forum with others that do about it, nobody else on any other metric or American made ride, gives a shit about my problem with the machine! I'm just frustrated and want to fix it so I can ride MY CHOICE of motorcycle. Throw me some ideas or concrete suggestions on things to fix it, I don't give a rip about the rest! Okay, I am done with the rant!  | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Maybe reported the error codes instead of ranting might lead to some suggestions. There are some pretty knowledgeable people on this forum. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Both perspectives are fair. Those that want to hand (a lot of) money to a pro to fix it once and fix it right are now in a bind because of lack of support for Buell. (In my experience, they are in a bind anyway, as even when I take this path with other vehicles I own and that are well supported by dealers it seems it's hit and miss as to if it is done right anyway, so it's just a more expensive form of flailing, but that's a different topic). On the other side, if you have even a little interest in doing your own work, or even doing work for others, this site is an incredible resource to make that a much better and more productive experience. (Message edited by reepicheep on August 15, 2016) | ||
| Dannybuell |
Do you know how to get into diagnostics mode? | ||
| Joe7bros |
I would have to agree with Stimbrell in that if you are having the same issues with both bikes, there is likely a common failure point; bad/dirty/water/E15 instead of E10 fuel? How about blocked fuel lines from said gasoline? Have you tested the fuel pressure at the pump AND at the injectors? | ||
| Dualbuells |
Okay, Spec's: 2008 1125R with 2009 Cluster, race ecm w/ Barker exhaust, 17592 miles, original owner. Problem: starts and idles fine. Rolling on throttle is fine, roll hard and it begins to spit and sputter and bog down. Riding once it warms up requires higher rev's to keep it running from a light in 1st gear. Have replaced Tps (did the reset several times 2 - 100), replaced new fuel pressure sensor, same results as previously stated. I replaced the fuel pump (removal of wheel and swing arm), replaced with fresh fuel from different source reassembled and short ride proved same results. Filled tank added SeaFoam in attempt to hot clean the injectors if that was problem, same results. Yes I know how to get into the diagnostic mode. Codes: Common U0001, Fuel Pump System error P0628, Fuel Pressure System error P0193. I rechecked the grounds & tightened ( will check all with ohm meter asap). With Barker exhaust it's too loud to run for any length of time at this hour in my area(live next door to policeman!). I started it and idled for a minute, started fine revved engine a bit same symptoms. Replaced with original ECM , reset TPS and repeated start and idle, revved it a little and it didn't bog or kill itself. Tomorrow I will be able to run the bike without fear of retribution from the law, I will record live data on all fronts and report back on results. I apologize I didn't lead off with most of this, just frustrating as hell riding season will soon come to an end in northern Michigan! In regards to the EBR with similar issues, I've been on phone with EBR tech, they believe it is a potential wiring issues, all voltages etc. are in range as they spec'd during our conversation. They don't think it's bad fuel, but hey, we've all been wrong at least once in our lifetime! lol Until the next report! | ||
| Fantic97 |
what is your fuel pressure at? off and running at various rpms? Should be approx 550kpa off and right around 400kpa running. Still makes me wonder if you got a bad pump even thou you just replaced it. When mine went it had the same symptoms but you could watch the pressure drop into the 100's when you wacked the throttle. Also I paid less than $200 (incl shipping) for the pump from a dealer in PA . Just a thought to check into? | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Pretty cool you can get a factory EBR tech on the phone and run some diagnostics. | ||
| Dualbuells |
Swapped out the original stock ECM from the race ecm. Since it was too late (10:45 pm) for my neighborhood to run the Bell with the Barker exhaust, I went home at lunch and started it up, let it warm until the radiators kicked in. It really runs awesome cracked the throttle she roars! The only "issue" is from the original ecm milady when you blirp the throttle it stalls out. I will take her out for a ride after work and report back on any issues. So, now I'm wondering if IDS can fix my ECM problem, if that is indeed the problem? I know the one error code must be historical (P0193 Fuel Pr Sys error) but got a new code: P1047 F-R AF Sys error? Live data at idle: bat vlts. 12.5 TPS 3.5 (original setting ask HD to increase idle to negate the stall with blirp of thriottle, never worked! LOL) TPS vlt .6 MAP KPA 420 MAP vlt 2.4 IAC step 87 Fuel KPA 550 ( rock steady) Fuel vlt 5.0 Frt O2 Vlt .0-.7 Rear O2 Vlt same Tip over Vlt 1.3 S. Stand vlt 5 F. Adapt Fuel 100 R. Adapt fuel 100, there a couple others, not sure how relevant they are to the issue. Cheers! I will report after my ride later this evening. | ||
| Stevel |
Your fuel pump is driven by the ECM with pulse width modulation (PWM). Using PWM, the ECM controls pump speed and hence output pressure. The pressure feedback to the ECM is provided by the fuel pressure sensor. The amount of fuel the fuel injector delivers is a product of PWM, along with fuel pressure. The longer the injector pulse, the longer the injector valve is open. The amount of fuel that passes trough the injector during a given pulse width is a product of the fuel pressure feeding the injector. Pretty simple really. If the fuel pressure is low, so is the amount of fuel delivered. So it is easy to see that at least two errors could be detected from the same fault, low fuel pressure and too lean fueling. The pressure error would be detected by the fuel pressure sensor and the lean condition would be detected by the O2 sensor. Lets talk about troubleshooting a fault like this. Tim Blomenberg at IDS is responsible for the firmware within the ECM and has done a great job in detecting these faults, but in order to determine the cause, you need to know what the ECM is seeing as inputs as well as the ECM's outputs and there is the dilemma. It is very difficult to monitor these. There are no test points. Even if there were test points, you need to know what should be at the test points. That's where knowledge and skill come to bear. I have full sympathy for the OP. The very best he can do is make the best wild ass guesses and hope he's correct. This is not a good situation. I have built a breakout box that sits between the bike's wiring harness and the two connectors of the ECU for just this situation. The breakout box allows monitoring of all inputs and outputs to and from the ECU. Once you detect an abnormal ECM input or output, it is relatively simple to determine the actual cause. This takes away all the guesswork. Unfortunately, I am in Germany, but every dealer at least, needs one of these breakout boxes and it is a very good bet that only Tim and I have one. I have attached an early picture of the breakout box before the ECM mating connectors were fitted. As you can see, this was not a simple effort to build. The box itself came from the US Army. It was originally a breakout box used to troubleshoot the M1 Abrams tank gun turret. The orange wires connect J1 and the white wires connect J2, one end to the bike harness and the other end to the ECU. The test points lie in between. The black heat shrink insulates individual wire jacks and sockets used to electrically isolate signals in case of harness short circuits. The two shiny bits plugged into the test box are test pins that can be inserted in any signal socket they will allow an oscilloscope test probe or VOM to be connected. Tim can provide the connectors and the connector pins if any one else wants to build one. Since the ECM connectors are the same for both the 1125 and the EBR 1190, this box is compatible to all models.  (Message edited by steve-l on August 17, 2016) (Message edited by steve-l on August 17, 2016) (Message edited by steve-l on August 17, 2016) | ||
| Dualbuells |
Ride report: Still very slight hesitation while cracking the throttle a bit. It stalls if you blip the throttle at a traffic light. It stalls as you downshift approaching a traffic light, unless I keep a tiny bit of throttle active. My "check engine" light has come on, it shows an immediate code fault when key is switched on and motor started, Fuel Systm Pressur Error P0193. It's been a while so I don't remember if/how you can delete old codes, like I can on my EBR 1190SX. Crazy question: will the ecm "reset" to a default setting with 50 key switch activation or something crazy like that??!? Steve: That is way over my head to build a test box for the ECM. I have sent IDS an email asking if they can evaluate and or re-calibrate my race ecm. Tonight after work I am going to stick the race ecm back in, do a tps reset and see if it does what it had been doing with the fueling issues. I'm hoping the IDS can "repair" the race ECM for me. Last question: How to delete the history fault codes? I looked briefly in the service manual but didn't find anything on it. | ||
| Dannybuell |
why would the ecm be bad? do you have a service manual? | ||
| Froggy |
Codes will clear themselves after 50 starts, or you use a tool like TunerPro to do it. It is not like an old car where you could disconnect the battery or something. | ||
| Dualbuells |
Good question Dan! If the re-installation of the race ecm provides the same previous results, therefore swapping ecm's is as Stevel put it, "very best he can do is make the best wild ass guesses and hope he's correct." Therefore the obvious must be true, hey that sounds like something Spock would say, LOL I contacted IDS on them doing a evaluation or repair of my race ecm. Tim Blomenberg response was "we can evaluate your ECM on a test bench for $75 and let you know what we find" Yes, as previously noted, I have the service manual, I use it every time I have to repair something on the beast! Why do you ask?!? | ||
| Dannybuell |
IDK sometimes there are diagnostic paths... apparently you have been down those well worn paths. :-) | ||
| Dualbuells |
Okay, so I swapped the stock ecm back to the suspected defective race ecm. Result is it ran like crap again. So off to IDS it goes for evaluation and hopefully repair. I put the stock ecm back in, can't run the bike currently waiting for Barker to send me new fiberglass pack for the exhaust. The exhaust blew practically all the fiberglass out, the end of the exhaust can got so hot it turned the coating to powder! I will be sand blasting that and ceramic coating the exhaust before I re-install it. I hope I can finally put this problem behind me and ride the hell out it! | ||
| Dualbuells |
Well, I guess it's back to the guessing game on this beast! Since I had only taken it out around the block previously to "test" out my theory of a bad ECM, after I ceramic coated my exhaust system and put that back on I took it for a "long" ride. It ran great until it heated up good after about 5 or so miles, then it starts with similar issue of bogging down and stalling while giving it some throttle. It also stalled a couple times while starting off in 1st gear at stop signs etc.. One thing that I wonder about is the manual states that the fuel pressure at idle should be around 500 to 550 KPA and around 420 or so at 4k rpm. Mine stays stable at 550 KPA no matter what the RPM's are. I took a video on my phone while running through the diagnostic on the IC, I need to figure out how to reduce it and down load it here. I still wonder if the fuel injectors are partially plugged or obstructed, grabbing at straws here! Any idea on what the problem might be? | ||
| D_adams |
You beat me to it with your second to last sentence. I'd look at either replacing the injectors or having them cleaned in an ultrasonic bath. | ||
| Dannybuell |
what is the engine temp when it starts to run bad? what is happening when a ceramic coating turns to dust? temp sensor short? | ||
| Duanelr |
Speaking of IDS.. Instead of the above ECM patch-box, wouldn't this be more practical? Hat's off to Stevel, but I might qualify that with a STEEP learning curve. | ||
| Dualbuells |
I have the part number for the fuel injector, however I seem to remember some one BW stating that the injectors are the same as a ford focus or something like that. I can't seem to get it to come up on a search or the site. Anybody have a alternate source and our part number to the fuel injectors? I think I will pull them and go to auto parts and see if they can match off the numbers on the injector. Dan - I'm not positive on the temperature exactly but I know the fans where running and the manual states that the thermostat is wide open in the 180 - 185 Degree F range. Also, I believe that Barker used high temperature powder coating on the exhaust, that's what turned to powder on the exit end of the exhaust pipe, not the ceramic coating that I just coated them with! When I opened the exhaust can to replace the fiberglass packing, there was almost nothing left in the exhaust pipe, therefore blowing hot exhaust at the pipe end! At least that's my speculation! | ||
| Dualbuells |
Injectors are $102 + shipping from Surdyke HD!! I gotta hope I can find these for less $ !! Call me cheap, after all the other items I've replaced in the process of elimination, this is getting expensive and I still can't ride! | ||
| Dualbuells |
Anybody know if the EBR and Buell fuel injectors are the same. The Buell P/N is P0026.2AM. If they are the same I will pull them out of my non running EBR 1190SX and install onto the Buell 1125R! Just to check if that is/has been the problem. | ||
| Joe7bros |
Don't you have a similar problem with the 1190SX? |
