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Archive through August 22, 2016Joe7bros30 08-22-16  08:23 pm
         

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Dualbuells
Posted on Monday, August 22, 2016 - 08:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

EBR Tech's feel it's more likely a wiring issue, although I've not been able to find a problem. I figure since I've got the EBR opened up to the stage it's easy enough to pull the injectors and test them in the Buell and it solves the problem...nothing ventured nothing gained! What can it hurt except a little time to pull, I can't ride either one of them currently anyhow.
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Joe7bros
Posted on Monday, August 22, 2016 - 11:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

May also eliminate the injectors as a problem on the 1190 if they function properly on the 1125.
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Dannybuell
Posted on Tuesday, August 23, 2016 - 12:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Stimbrell made a good point when he mentioned both bikes have the same issues. kind of suggests an external variable, right?
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Stevel
Posted on Tuesday, August 23, 2016 - 04:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Every reply within this thread is conjecture. That is understandable because no facts are known. As I stated before, there are many threads recorded here in this forum that reflect the very same thing. It is true that the ECM controls the engine, so it is very important to understand why the ECM is doing what it is. This this break-out box is NOT to troubleshoot the ECM. The odds of ECM failure are extremely remote. This box will allow troubleshooting of the bike as a whole. The ECM responds to the inputs from the sensors and the throttle, nothing more. Tim's error messages report sensor readings that he has determined to be out of normal range, not why they are out of range. That is for you, the mechanic to determine. To do that, you must first determine the real fault by viewing the ECM outputs. Then, by monitoring the ECM sensor inputs, you can then isolate the cause regardless of where the fault lies. You will find a sensor signal at the ECM that will be abnormal. Once isolated, you simply follow that back to its source. The box will tell you only what the ECM sees. Once the abnormal signal is located, you must then make certain that the same signal is what the sensor is sending by checking the same signal at the sensor, thereby validating the wiring harness. This box simply makes this process easy. It is this troubleshooting process that is absolutely necessary to prevent best guess shotgunning parts substitution that can never find a wiring fault.
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Stevel
Posted on Tuesday, August 23, 2016 - 05:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Lets consider fuel pressure for a moment. How do you check that? Before you look at that, you must know what you expect to see. Without first making that determination, it is human nature to assume that what you see is probably correct. What you know is that the ECM is reporting 550kpa or 5.5 bar or 79 PSI and you say it is unchanging. Is that normal? I would say not. I would expect to see the pressure change slightly with flow. The higher the fuel flow the lower the pressure as measured at the sensor, which is mounted in the fuel log at the shower injector mount. The pressure should drop at higher flow rates due to wall friction losses within the fuel system. That means that pressure must be monitored during light engine loading and high engine load. Are you doing that? Then you must know what normal pressure is. What does EBR say? What does DECA recommend is normal? So some research is required. I know from experience that 550 kpa sounds too high. Most port injectors are happy at 50 to 55 PSI. So that now becomes the 2nd clue. You now must ask yourself is the pressure sensor reporting pressure accurately? You can only do this by adding a simple mechanical fuel pressure gauge to the circuit. This is not so straight forward, because those fuel connectors at the fuel hoses are unobtainable, so you are forced to make an adaptor at the fuel log to validate the sensor. Lastly, some have mentioned a potential fuel injector fault. Assuming you now know the fuel supply is performing correctly, you can test the injectors, but you must first build a test rig. It isn't difficult to do, there are many examples of home built rigs, Simply search YouTube videos, there are many. Common faults are dirt fouling and leaky piddle valves. Both are very easy to see with a test rig. In any case, you now see that there is no short cuts here and no substitute to having the correct tools. What is very sad to me, is that very few, if any, service shops have these tools nor do they follow this bullet proof troubleshooting procedure. Sadly, this will be reflected in your service cost. The customer will always be charged for time spent, even when that time is spent poorly. Once you find this problem, it will undoubtedly be stupid simple, but I will point out that it is only simple once you have found it, not before.
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Dualbuells
Posted on Tuesday, August 23, 2016 - 09:43 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Steve - Any way I can get you and your test box to come to the USA? JK I wonder why EBR tech, service contracts don't require a box like yours and Tim of IDS! The magic box would certainly take all the guess work out of keeping these awesome machines running! However I'm stuck with hit and miss replacement process for now. My issue is although I am not afraid to get my hands dirty and bust a knuckle or two trying to keep the Buell/EBR on the road, I'm still not a certified mechanic to be able to trouble shoot and fix it right the first time. I certainly cannot afford to take it to a dealer (7 hour drive one way)for repairs, it would just be great to get it running and enjoy the machine for what it is intended for!
I will keep ya'll posted on getting the injectors swapped to determine what next phase I go to.
Regards to all for your help!
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Dualbuells
Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2016 - 07:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Well, final report on results. I purchased a fuel injector cleaning kit from Motion Pro. I did the cleaning process on both injectors, reinstalled them. Took her out for a ride and am happy to report she runs awesome. To those that stated I must have gotten bad gas, that must have been the case and got some tarnish or something plugging up the fuel injectors. I could have saved the money I spent on fuel pump and other frustrations if I started at the simple solutions. I did use Amsoil's fuel saver additive on the previous two gas fill ups which I believe did start to clean up the fuel injectors, it started to run better with the additive. FYI the main fuel injectors on my EBR 1190SX are the same as the Buell 1125. The connector on both fuel injectors on the EBR are also the same, which is important to know using the Motion Pro injector cleaner, the injectors are different but use the same connector. I finally pulled the injectors from the EBR and cleaned them, same awesome results, purrs like a dragon. Now if all this freakin' rain will stop I can take the EBR out for some fun riding tonight!
Thanks for all the assists!
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Mhpalin
Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2016 - 11:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Tim witch motion pro injector cleaner is the right one for the 1125
Thanks
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Dualbuells
Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2016 - 11:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Motion Pro Mp Fuel Injector Cleaner Kits 08-0592
At MP it's $150, I purchased Amazon for $135 free shipping. It comes with the connector that fits the Buell 1125 and the EBR 1190. The only "issue" I had with the MP unit is the first time I used it, the o-ring they use for the spray nozzle cleaner disintegrated after the first few shots of cleaner. I have a few neoprene o-rings that fit that worked fine, but I think I need to go to viton because the neoprene expanded a bit. Other than that the unit is good quality and worth the cost IMHO.
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