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Tbowdre
Posted on Wednesday, August 19, 2015 - 12:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'm installing a toggle switch to interrupt power or ground to the radiator fans so I can occasionally shut them off... many reasons why... yes I know I shouldn't, and I know why i shouldn't... anyway.

My plan is to simply splice a toggle into either the power wire or the ground wire right at the fan. A single switch to control (shut off) both fans.

Any reasons to pick the ground or power wire?... does it matter?

Thanks
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Sprintst
Posted on Wednesday, August 19, 2015 - 08:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I would say power. That's typically where you see a switch, plus it eliminates any issues with secondary grounding paths
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Terrys1980
Posted on Wednesday, August 19, 2015 - 11:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The fan always has power to it and the ECM controls the speed by providing ground and you should always switch ground whenever possible.

The fuel pump is the same way.
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Terrys1980
Posted on Wednesday, August 19, 2015 - 11:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Here is the wiring for the fan circuit.

fan circuit
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Shawns
Posted on Wednesday, August 19, 2015 - 03:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I would use a relay. You can use a 5 wire relay to set it up. This way when closed it operates normally, the way it should. When open you can manually activate the fan.
30 to fan ground..ecm side
87a to fan ground fan side
87 to battery ground
86 to switched ignition
85 to switch and other side of switch to battery ground



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Tbowdre
Posted on Wednesday, August 19, 2015 - 04:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

This is my confusion.... why a relay? Why can't I just open the ground wire to turn it off and then close the switch to have the ECM control it like normal?

thanks
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Shawns
Posted on Wednesday, August 19, 2015 - 04:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

This way nothing can back feed to the ecm and keeps it isolated.
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Terrys1980
Posted on Wednesday, August 19, 2015 - 05:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

A relay would be ideal if it were a race bike to prevent fan from coming on during a pass or if something was upgraded and the existing wiring couldn't handle the load.
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Thefleshrocket
Posted on Wednesday, August 19, 2015 - 06:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Have you considered reprogramming the fan settings via the ECM? I've got an EBR ECM, which originally turned the fans on at 170F and, in theory, was supposed to turn them off at 160F. I say "in theory", because, short of driving at a high rate of speed through an ambient air temperature of below 0 degrees, I don't think the coolant would ever get below 160F once it had climbed above it.

I changed the fans to come on at 185F and turn off at 180F, so if I'm cruising at highway speeds, the coolant temp will drop low enough to turn off the fans and actually keep them off until I start hauling ass or slowing down.

I also disabled the fans running after the bike is turned off. There's nothing a bike with a weak charging system needs more than having a significant electrical draw after the bike is off and the stator isn't generating any current.
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Froggy
Posted on Wednesday, August 19, 2015 - 06:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I've also changed the fan settings, mine kick on at 90C and off at 70C if I remember right. I didn't change any settings related to key off. The fans do run less but still come on when needed, they just take a little longer to get to that point and don't try and cool the bike as aggressively.
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Tbowdre
Posted on Wednesday, August 19, 2015 - 11:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

All I want to do is shut the fans off, occasionally, after riding. Just so I can talk to someone... or not annoy someone!... yes the 60 seconds of loud whirring from the fans is too much for me.

I have a cable and would maybe consider trying to connect and shut off the fans with ECM spy... Kinda worried I might mess something up tho

My plan is to simply install a single toggle switch to open both fans ground wire.... I got a little nervous reading about relays and fuses that might make this a PITA.
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Terrys1980
Posted on Thursday, August 20, 2015 - 12:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I was thinking maybe you were doing some late night creeping and wanted to coast the bike a few hundred feet without the fans being on.

What's the worse that could happen if you put a switch on ground and something shorts out with that circuit? The fan might get stuck on?
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Shawns
Posted on Thursday, August 20, 2015 - 05:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The worst that could happen is you fry the ECM and have to replace it.
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Dannybuell
Posted on Thursday, August 20, 2015 - 10:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

think of a relay as a wall that keeps low voltage and higher voltage from each other.
This is the preferred method for all manner of electronics, no big deal. You Can Do It!
I am sure the folks here will help you along the way, look how much help you have already received. :-)
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Xtreme6669
Posted on Thursday, August 20, 2015 - 03:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

A relay's purpose is using a small amount of current to control a large amount of current. The voltage is the same. The reason you would use a relay is because a simple switch cant handle the amount of current for the circuit. An electric fan is going to pull a lot of current... If the switch is tied into the ground for both fans that's even more current it needs to handle.

If you have a big heavy duty switch you may be ok but I would recommend using a relay for that kind of load.
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Tbowdre
Posted on Thursday, August 20, 2015 - 05:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

thanks everyone for the replies.

My desire to not Fu@# up my bike is definitely greater than my desire to be lazy... Ya know, once the magic smoke comes out you can never get it back in!

So I bought a relay and an inline fuse.

I let you know how it goes

Thanks, Todd
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Dannybuell
Posted on Thursday, August 20, 2015 - 08:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

THX amps, right?
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Tbowdre
Posted on Monday, August 24, 2015 - 01:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Update

I followed shawns excellent and detailed description on how/where to connect my relay... Thank You

I used the 12V accessory plug for my switched ignition power and ground connections. 86 and 87 respectively.

I fired up the bike yesterday and with my toggle switch in the on position (closed). The fans did not turn on (IC temp showed ~ 178) until I switched the toggle switch off. Fans came on. Then I toggled the switch back to on and then back to off... no response. fans just kept running. shut the bike off. Fans kept running. Toggle switch on/off. no response fans running. They stopped after the normal 1 minute run time.

Double checked connections. Okay

Hmmm. Checked wires with a multimeter and I have 12V on the ground wires that are going to the fans. Wires at 87a. This seems weird.

It seems like I can still accomplish what I want to do but I too stupid to figure out how to connect the wires to the relay.

Initially when I was looking at the fans I powered them/tested with a spare 12V battery to determine
which wire was ground and which was power...probably not ideal.


Thanks for all the help with my project!!
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Terrys1980
Posted on Monday, August 24, 2015 - 02:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I don't think using switched ignition is going to work in the way you want to control the fans.

Swap the wires on 87 and 87a then test it out. If that don't work like you want change 86 to fused battery.
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Shawns
Posted on Monday, August 24, 2015 - 02:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Try the ignition off of the switch itself. You can also use the headlight low output as it only comes on with the ignition.
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Tbowdre
Posted on Monday, August 24, 2015 - 10:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

YES! Simply swapping 87 and 87a worked...

Thanks for all your help!!
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