| Author | Message | ||
     Mortbike |
Has anyone found any benefits and have results of getting a custom dyno tuned PCV mapping in addition to using the EBR ECM. I have the specific EBR ECM for my Barker exhaust on my 09 1125CR and it runs great but I have always had even better optimized results on other bikes with a bike specific tune. Even if a PCV is used, I think there is still a benefit to the EBR ECM Barker tune as it offers other benefits and set the proper ignition timing. Also, is 13.0-1 the best overall afr for the 1125 or does it need to be richer/leaner at certain rpm's? thanks, Mort | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
I feel like the EBR ECM for Barker leaves some power on the table, at least with my bike. Midrange just doesn't feel as strong as I think it should, but at literally 9000rpm, the bike begins pulling noticeably harder. Of course that only lasts for 1500rpm. I haven't dynoed the bike, so this is a SOTP impression only, but I have an inkling that more power could be found, at least in the midrange, with proper tweaking. Might as well give it a shot. At worst, turn around and sell the PCV. | ||
| Redbat |
I agree with both of you about finding more power with the Power Commander V on top of the race ECM. But I'm also going to add the Auto Tune feature because of my radically modified air box. | ||
| Mortbike |
The PCV auto tune is an interesting idea but what do you set the target AFR tables to? 13.0 - 1 is what I see most PCV dyno tuners use but I don't know if that is what is best for an 1125 with a Barker or other pipe? | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
Redbat, how is your airbox modified? Have you done any testing to confirm that it works better than stock? | ||
| Anonymous |
The EBR preprogrammed race ECM's are specifically tuned for each exhaust. The likelihood of messing up is not insignificant, as to develop each specific map it takes a large number of hours on the dyno with an expert fuel injection engineer using a full sensor system mounted on the bike, including wide band O2 sensors. Very few shops have equivalent equipment. | ||
| S21125r |
You could always use tuner pro or Spy and tweak the EBR ECM directly. May not be as intuitive as the PCV but it will eliminate one more source of failure in the stack. Tweaking maps in the ECM is pretty easy - the hard part is figuring out what needs to be tweaked, how much to tweak it, and in what direction. BTW - I have no experience with the PCV so not trying to steer you away - just throwing out an alternate idea. As soon as I get some additional O2 bungs welded into my header, I plan on logging wide band output with tuner pro. I'll then use the formula feature to convert from a voltage to an AFR, and then use history tables to find the AFR average, range and standard deviation for each cell in the fuel table. That should get me in the ballpark and from there it will be fine tuning the ratio for each cell to see what it likes. | ||
| Dannybuell |
An EBR ECM with a Power Commander is silly. EBR is the #1 1125 Subject Matter Expert(SME) with more 1125 dyno hours than anyone. You can't do better. The next 1125 SME after EBR is Twin Motorcycles, he will modify your OEM ECM. | ||
| Redbat |
Thefleshrocket, I may have to post pictures of my air box mods. (Yes mods.) It's simple in execution, but complex in description. I have no plans to Dyno it at the present time, (gets too expensive) but from all indications it seems to be lean in the low to mid-range. The reason I want to run a power commander v with auto tune is, it's a ram air setup and needs to be tuned while in motion versus standing still on a Dyno. I'm hoping to increase HP and torque in the low to midrange. Not too concerned about the minor top end loss if there is any. If it works, I'll be happy. If not, I'll remove it. (Message edited by Redbat on January 25, 2013) (Message edited by Redbat on January 25, 2013) | ||
| Redbat |
Dannybuell, the EBR ecm no longer matches my setup because I have completely altered the way air enters the engine, So, it's not silly to try and retune with a Power Commander and Auto Tune. My point is I want to let the Auto Tune adjust while I ride at varying speeds. It's just not possible to accomplish this on a stationary dynamometer. | ||
| Dannybuell |
the EBR ECM oxy sensors remain in use so the ECM adjusts. If you have a check engine light with an EBR ECM and it proves to be too lean then you have a point. I would cross that bridge when or if it happens. p.s. generally speaking an anonymous post is someone from EBR. | ||
| Redbat |
So, let me see.....you'd wait until you see a check engine light before you think your bike is running a little lean. Come on, Dannybuell, you don't really believe that. I have tremendous respect for EBR and what they know and provide, but a specific ECM cannot possibly cover all changes one may decide to make to his Buell 1125. I'm here to experiment learn and have fun with my bike. Oh and about the "Anonymous post", no kidding. | ||
| Redbat |
That last line in my response to Dannybuell was a bit sarcastic. Sorry, didn't mean any disrespect. | ||
| Dannybuell |
When I got my Barker I ran it w/o the EBR ECM. One day the check engine light came on, it ran fine. Everyone here said the exhaust system was running leaner than the OEM ECM could handle. I put the EBR in and NO more CEL's. This is a fairly common event. Good Luck. | ||
| Redbat |
Danny, Don't take this wrong, but you just don't get it. | ||
| Dannybuell |
Redbat - Don't take this wrong, knock yourself out. | ||
| Dktechguy112 |
The team that designed your bike gave you a race tuned ECM specific for your exhaust, and you think you can make it better? That's like God showing you how he created the Universe and humans and you saying you can do it better. | ||
| Redbat |
The whole point of this discussion is not that I can out do the EBr Race tune. I'm trying to tune for more than just the exhaust, I have made MANY MORE CHANGES THAN JUST MY EXHAUST. Hear that? More changes than the race ECM was designed (tuned) to address. You don't have to agree with "how" I'm doing this, but at least understand the reason "why". (Message edited by Redbat on January 31, 2013) | ||
| Redbat |
Why do you think EBR offers a tunable ECM on their web site? Because not everyone has exactly the same setup on their bike. Neither do I. But I have chosen to to tune in a different manner than using EBR's adjustable tuner. Now can someone understand my point? | ||
| Jdugger |
Red, I can recommend the tunable ECM from EBR. I use it, and like you have more than just exhaust changes to my motor. Honestly, the cost of that set up is not so much worse than the PC + EBR ECM, and in-total would probably work better for you. The software gives you a LOT of flexibility in programming maps for the bike, including an off-throttle map and other nice features. Highly recommend. Might not have been the answer you were looking for, but would be a good answer for what you are trying to do. You would need some dyno time since there's no "auto-tune", but honestly, that's probably the best way to do it since you can use wideband sensors and control the environment a little better. I had a local race tuner set mine up and map it, and I couldn't be more pleased. | ||
| Redbat |
Thanks Jim, I agree the EBR adjustable race tuner is a good way to get where I'm trying to go, but I already own the PCV so I'll give it a shot and see how it goes. At least you got the point I'm trying to make by just reading my post without any preconceived assumptions. | ||
| Redbat |
Jim, just out of curiosity, who did the dyno tune to dial it in? Shop name, or individual? Thanks. | ||
| Jdugger |
Red, My initial map was based on work done by EBR. When I moved to a different fuel (Sunoco 100, since I'm running 14.8:1 compression) I had the bike remapped here in Texas. Since you are "local", I recommend Jim Cambora at Raceworx. He's in Mansfield -- I know it's a haul -- but his reputation for quality work is not exceeded. He's an expert at both motor and chassis, and has experience with these bikes now. He built the suspension on my race bike. He's busy -- don't expect the job done in a jiffy. But, do expect quality work. | ||
| Redbat |
Thanks Jim. | ||
| Firemanjim |
Speaking from experience I had an 1125 with an EBR ecm on it and it ran well. We got a PC-V as we a kid racing an 1125 and when he quit we inherited the PC. So I put it on the bike to see how well it worked. The canned maps from Dynojet are all "unified maps" which means both cylinders are the same, but as my bike had ports for widebands in both pipes already I was able to do separate maps. And we had 3 different pipes here from the shootout so I did maps for all three pipes--D&D, Jardine, and Drummer IIRC, and one for a stock muffler. After tuning on the dyno here the bike ran much smoother and made a bit more power with the PC-V . And the stock muffler made more power than the D&D! Sorry to say but any "canned" map is just not going to be as good as one tailored to your individual bike/combo. And our dyno has a brake so I can set it and hold an rpm to tune at any throttle position. The EBR tuneable ecm is a very powerful tool but is not very easy to use and grasp. The PC-V allows live tuning which really cuts down on dyno time. I can see the changes in real time as I make them. (Message edited by firemanjim on January 31, 2013) | ||
| Redbat |
Another reason to try the PCV. Thanks to you also. | ||
| Alex |
The tuneable EBR ECM allows live tuning as well. |
