| Author | Message | ||
     Pwillikers |
Dear Erik, The lunatics here at BadWeb are some of your most loyal and ardent supporters. I speak for us all when I say we'd like nothing more than to see you succeed with your racing efforts and, just as important, that your next generation of mass market street bikes sees wild success in the marketplace. We'll likely be your first customers. To further this cause, I'd like to offer a conversation as a source for market intelligence (perhaps a misnomer in my case) as your development progresses. I'm hoping we'll actively theorize, hypothesize and opinionize on the overall importance of absolute specifications and the relative importance of alternatives that you may be considering. Let me begin with an assumption that EBR is developing two new models; a pure sports bike (like the 1125r) and a naked (like the 1125cr). For discussion sake, lets call them the EBR-R and EBR-CR respectively. Suggested Rating System: To keep our discussion responses intelligible, lets say there are five possible responses: Must not have(0), Probably shouldn't have (1), Doesn't Matter(2), Nice to have(3), Very, very nice to have (4) and, Absolutely must have. A deal breaker if it's not included (5). To start the discussion, lets consider: EBR-R Engine Capacity: 1190 = 2 (notes: increase in power not worth additional cost and perceived lack of durability) Engine Capacity: 1125 = 2 (notes: the stock motor as supplied by Rotax is fast enough for me) ABS(non-linked): = 5 (notes: ABS is a REQUIREMENT for A street bike, unlinked is a superior implementation) Drive Line: Belt Drive = 2 Drive Line: Chain Drive = 2 EBR-CR: Engine Capacity: 1190 = 2 (notes: increase in power not worth additional cost and perceived lack of durability) Engine Capacity: 1125 = 3 (notes: the stock motor as supplied by Rotax is fast enough for me) Engine Heat: Manage it away from the rider = 5 (notes: I live in TX.) ABS(non-linked): = 5 (notes: ABS is a REQUIREMENT for A street bike, unlinked is a superior implementation) Drive Line: Belt Drive = 3 Drive Line: Chain Drive = 2 (Message edited by pwillikers on July 30, 2012) | ||
| Father_of_an_era |
Ok, I'll play along. 1190 = 5 I want more power for on and off the street/track. Engine Heat = 5 Though my 08R doesn't really have a heat issue (at least from my perspective) I would imagine more HP means more heat and thus, could become problematic. ABS = 5 Most if not all new high end production bikes have this option. The EBR shouldn't be any different. This option can be a life changer. Belt Drive = 3 Personally, I really like the belt drive but there are those whom prefer the chain. Maybe something to consider is ergonomics. The current 1190RS seems to be quite a bit more aggressive ergonomically than our 1125s. I would like to see the new bikes maintain the 1125 rider comfort ergonomics. | ||
| Iamarchangel |
ABS 4.5 (not quite a deal-breaker but it should be there) Engine heat 4 (I don't commute/traffic but I can see where it builds up. Think it's more a vent somewhere else issue. Belt 4 (not racing, I prefer it. Option for racers.) Ergo 4.5 (1125R is just about right for me.) Dash 4 (bigger graphic and lights for us seniors) | ||
| Sprintst |
EBR-R Engine Size 1190 - (2) doesn't mater Engine output - (3) more is always better. I don't really find the 1125 lacking, but the market is moving toward more and you need to be competitive Engine heat - (3) I didn't have a real issue with my 08 or the 09 I have now, except I do get a lot of heat out the back of the Saddleman seat. Power is heat, may be hard to fix ABS - (2) my Sprint ST had it, and I actually grew to appreciate it, but not a show stopper for me TC/WC - (2) traction control, wheelie control - I don't care, but it is the future Brakes - (3) goto radial MC; update the caliper, rotor and mounting system (EBR rotor mounting kit) Belt - (3) probably hurts sales, but man it rocks for street bikes Ergos - stock 1125 fits me well Dash - (3) pretty good on 1125, update it Full fairings - (4) this hurt the 1125 launch, I always add the optional lowers. I want full fairings EBR-CR - not my kind of bike, so I won't comment Overall, I'm awefully happy with the 1125R actually, so for me a bit of a style update, a bit more power, and full fairings will do it. The 1125R has been a great street bike for me. When I totally my 08 in April I seriously looked at alternatives, and really only the Ducati and KTM had a lot of appeal, since I really learned to loved the v-twin. Both are pricey enough that it wasn't worth it. I've ridden a 1098 and it was great, but 2X the money for a bit more power wasn't worth it. Now, for a new bike, that would be different story. EBR needs to be in the modern neighborhood. We can't expect a 1125/1190 to be an alternative to a 600/675, it has to compete in the liter category, whatever that displacement needs to be. However, if it's pushing 20K and doesn't have the electronics, I think it won't do well up against the BMW and Panigale. At that price point, the buyers will expect electronics (Message edited by sprintst on July 29, 2012) (Message edited by sprintst on July 30, 2012) | ||
| Iamarchangel |
Traction control would be nice too. Just the basic first gear thing. Too many street corners and opening the throttle puts it slideways. Yeah, I know how to ride but I've been spooked. | ||
| Father_of_an_era |
+1 for an electronics package. Also, I definitely want an R style bike with a faring and yeah, the belt drive does kick ass! | ||
| Pwillikers |
Of the two bikes, an EBR-CR is the style bike I'd buy. Price < $15K: Absolutely must have. A deal breaker if it's not included (5), Price >= $20K: Probably shouldn't have (1). | ||
| Jdugger |
> Brakes - (3) goto radial MC, update caliper, rotor and mounting I'm not sure this makes sense. The main reason for a radial mount is so it's easy to change rotor sizes on traditional wheels by just using spacers. With the EBR brake system, the rotor is already basically as big as you can get it, and there's really no logic in making it smaller. Am I missing something here? The 1190 brake system is a VAST... and I mean VAST improvement over the 1125r. The stock 1125r brake system would begin to overheat and fail with riders of surprisingly modest talent. The 1190 system uses a better rotor, better mounting hardware for the rotor, a milled-out caliper that cools way better, forced air cooling for the caliper, better master cylinder, and a couple of other changes. I have an 1190 rotor, caliper, comparable mounting hardware, etc., on my 1125r track bike. It's night and day. You really just can't believe how much better as a system it works than the 1125r, which honestly wasn't up for the task. | ||
| Oldog |
My comments EBR-R As I am moving from that "demographic" MY 1125 R is OK for me for a 200 mile day, and I am going to start adapting it (reversibly) for sport touring. In General, having owned 2 Buells since '02 I like the belt drive on a street bike (3) I would like improved brakes (3) I would like sport touring accessories (4) Luggage, items that relax the riders position, More HP (2) An 1125 motor for a mass market bike seems like a better idea to me if the charging system is updated (5) with the new single radiator for cooling frame heating my not be as critical (4) and I presume that for a sport / sport tour that full body work is standard design changes to make the machine easier to service would be welcome (4) purchasers would do well to keep in mind that a top shelf race grade bike is available all ready, this is a sports style street bike and if the 1125r is any indication of what we can expect, we should all be excited I am. | ||
| Snackbar64 |
Agreed Oldog! Basically fix all the problems with current bike and mildly upgrade it, while keeping it comfortable to ride and easy service are key factors. I personally don't need the bike to be any more powerful than it already is. (Message edited by snackbar64 on July 30, 2012) | ||
| Redbuell1203 |
I would just like to see any of their creations come to life! I would like to see more of a sport tourer. | ||
| Curve__carver |
A strong knowledgeable dealer network (5+) | ||
| Sprintst |
> Brakes - (3) goto radial MC, update caliper, rotor and mounting I'm not sure this makes sense. The main reason for a radial mount is so it's easy to change rotor sizes on traditional wheels by just using spacers. With the EBR brake system, the rotor is already basically as big as you can get it, and there's really no logic in making it smaller. Fixed my sentence to make it clear, wasn't asking for radial caliper mounting. My logic here is that the brake lever/MC on the 1125 is a known weakness, and radial pump master cylinders are state of the art Caliper - more pots used to be state of the art, less are now. Obviously radial mount is the ticket today, but we can't get that with the single rotor design, and that is fine. Not asking for a radial mount caliper, but I do wonder if it should have less pots now} I do think the air duct on the EBR is a bit kludgey looking, but if that's what it takes..... I personally don't need the bike to be any more powerful than it already is. needs a bit more power to be competitive in the marketplace. Needs to run with the liter bikes, not the 600's} For ME, the 1125R is a damned fine bike. There's a few things I'd like to see, and a few things to address for the marketplace, but I think EBR can hit a home run on this. The only challenge will be the value (Message edited by sprintst on July 30, 2012) (Message edited by sprintst on July 30, 2012) | ||
| Mako |
beat the beemer. | ||
| Jaredc01 |
Personally, I'd be happy with a refresh of the 1125R fixing the past issues, adding some electronics (ABS and TC are a must for a 2012+ bike), and swapping the dual rads for a large single. | ||
| Duggram |
I want the 1190RX the same way Erik described it. The company is Erik Buell Racing. Seems to me that their bikes should be racing related. Hopefully any problems from the 1125 won't follow, of course. | ||
| Nuts4mc |
+1 Mako .....and the beemer's extended warrentee, even if they charge for it. | ||
| Redcrrider |
Never had a need for ABS or traction control on the street. Both will cause the price to go up, which are to high for new bikes all ready. Belt drive is nice. I would like to see a CR version that looks even meaner than the current CR. | ||
| Sprintst |
ABS will be mandatory for European sales soon | ||
| Nillaice |
shoe-horn that 1190 in a uly | ||
| Duggram |
Nillaice, I should have thought about that. An 1190 Uly would be like an extreme adventure bike. I got my 2012 WR450 Yamaha licensed for the street which is a lot of fun around town and on dirt roads. I can only imagine what an 1190 Uly would be like. 3 times the power with the same attitude. Maybe the SX or AX models will be it. | ||
| Ogobracing |
EBR-R Engine Capacity: 1125 = 3 (I agree that an increase in power is not worth additional cost and perceived lack of durability, although I won't turn down a few more horse. I think it would be best to stay with the 1125 rather than the 1190) Heat: 5. I love my 1125r, but the heat makes it unbearable at times. Getting it down at all would be a great improvement. Stator/Clutch Weep: 5. These items have to be fixed or the bike will be killed in the marketplace. ABS/Traction Control: 3.This is where sport bikes are at now. I would like an ABS system really geared to sports bikes. From what I've read, Honda has done it right. Standard steering damper: 3. The bike needs it. It is a sport bike. Maintain 1125 ergonomics: 5. I want to ride my bike on the street, not just the track. Belt Drive: 3. I like it for the street. | ||
| Motorhead102482 |
I would like to see a sport tourer style bike with a sporty, but little more relaxed rider position and the availability of luggage that also provides back support for a passenger. My next bike will probably be along these lines. | ||
| Jdugger |
Motor, What you want is a Motus: http://motusmotorcycles.com/ Let's let Erik build proper race bikes. | ||
| Pyrogen |
EBR-R 1190 engine = 5 RS brakes = 5 abs = 1 tc = 1 RS ergos = 4 belt drive = 4 mechanical clutch actuation = 4 non-stacked headlights = 4 steerting dampner = 4 1125R electrical problems = -10 I want to see a less expensive version of the 1190RS that competes with the BMW S1000 and Kaw ZX10R in all categories. I'll have my 1125 for commuting so make it a proper sport bike not a touring thing. | ||
| Duggram |
Pyrogen, it's on the way. It's the 1190RX @$18,900 and they have more than 70 dealers signed up already. The suspension will be Ohlins but not the top of the line version. I got this info from an EBR rep at Laguna last weekend. The only problem I have with the 1190RX is that it won't be available until sometime after the first of the year. BTW I hear you guys on the belt drive. I have it on my Sportster too. But it sux for track duty. It would be nice to be able to adjust the final drive from track to track. And, don't forget they are building the 1190RX to get homologation with the FIM for WSBK. Maybe they can't switch the drive once accepted by the FIM. | ||
| Xnoahx |
Just give us this  | ||
| Smoke4ndmears |
How is clutch weep still an issue to be concerned over after all of the revisions? Mine hasn't leaked since 2008/16k miles. After riding a friends newly purchased 1198s I dont see how EBR would come to market with anything south of 170 crank hp at the $19000 price point that has been rumored. The Duc made the 1125r feel tame, and it is last years hotness. TC would be nice with that much power... it's a nice way to hedge against track day 'incidents' for sure. | ||
| Pwillikers |
One can only hope that someday there'll be a full line of EBRs ... EBR-R - SuperSport (BMW S1000RR, Kawasaki ZX10-R) EBR-CR - Naked, upright sport bike (Aprilia Tuono, Ducati Monster) EBR-ST - Sport Touring (emphasis on "sport" Honda VTR1200, Triumph Sprint GT) EBR-XT - Adventure (BMW R1200GS, Triumph Tiger) EBR-RT - Touring (BMW R1200RT) Although I've owned many, my days of super sport bikes are past. My riding now is primarily commuting daily and several long tours every year. I also like to ride very fast - hence my 1125CR. I currently have four bikes, two SV650's (one of which is highly modified) that, with the addition of hard luggage and some suspension upgrades, are perfect for banging around in the city. I love these bikes. I have a soft spot for the design principles and with suspension work, the execution is virtually flawless. The next bike purchase I'll be making will be a sporty tourer. The Motus is directly in my sweet spot but it is way expensive and at that price, I'll not be an early adopter. I realize an ST or RT are not and will likely never be a product focus for EBR but, representing my demographic, I'd be most interested in an EBR-ST. And, if Erik hits the requirements, I'd be willing to spend a premium to buy quality and buy American. | ||
| Smoke4ndmears |
If EBR made a lightweight twin I would have to pinch myself to verify I wasn't in a dream state. It would be the best platform for a club racer and and ADV or city bike. |
