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Buell Forum » 1125R Superbike Board » Archive through August 17, 2012 » Rear bearing/seal? Pics inside « Previous Next »

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Wbeamer20
Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2012 - 06:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I heard a strange noise pulling out of the garage late this morning and thought nothing of it. Being late I proceeded to run well over the speed limit (even on the Autobahn) for 20 miles. When I got to work I looked at the back end and saw the following. Rear seal (if that is what it is) loose and sitting near the swingarm with axle grease all over it. Looks like bearings inside there. Here are some pics if anyone can tell me what this means. One comment I saw an article online suggesting I "replace entire rear end".
Thanks
William


Pic 1

Pic 2

Pic 3
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Froggy
Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2012 - 06:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

At a minimum, your rear wheel bearings have failed and need replacement. Depending on many conditions, the damage can be just the bearings, but it can also extend to a damage spacer, and in more extreme cases the wheel and swingarm could be damaged too.
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Wbeamer20
Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2012 - 07:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The bike showed no signs of poor handling so I may just order the bearings and spacer.

Would I know after those replacements if I needed further troubleshooting to the wheel and or swingarm or will handling be the primary sign of further damage?

Thanks froggy
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Froggy
Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2012 - 07:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

It will be obvious once you tear it apart if there is any damage to the wheel or anything.
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Wbeamer20
Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2012 - 07:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

ALRIGHT GUYS LETS DO THIS...time to tear this thing apart.

Thanks for such a prompt answer.
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Sprintst
Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2012 - 08:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Dat be shot
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Nuts4mc
Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2012 - 08:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

since you have to take the rear wheel off...check you belt and the rear brakes....if you can afford it- up grade to the (3) bearing axle and wheel...if not, do a search on the site and you may find an alternate P/N for the rear wheel bearings...available on line or a "bearing house"...good luck
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Ace117
Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2012 - 09:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The same thing happened to my 08 1125 at 6000 miles. I dropped her off at the stealership and after it was all said and done the damaged bearing, damaged the axle and the wheel hub. The stealership replaced the wheel, bearings and axle. Thank god i was still under warranty. 
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Bensbike
Posted on Thursday, July 26, 2012 - 12:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The same thing happened to my 08 at about 4000 miles. Does anyone know if this will happen to the front also? They are the stock orange bearing. I know have the black on rear.
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Froggy
Posted on Thursday, July 26, 2012 - 12:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)


quote:

Does anyone know if this will happen to the front also?




Front bearing failures are rare. The rear wheel on 03-09 models is a bit failure prone, but that is mostly on the Ulysses models. The 2010 rear wheel fixes the issue for good
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Wbeamer20
Posted on Friday, July 27, 2012 - 06:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I realize this question will probably be met with laughter but has anyone ever laid an 1125r down on its side for the purpose of removing the rear tire. If you were in between a rock and hard place is it possible? Perhaps with lots of bubble wrap or blankets under the points at which it would touch the ground. Every time I list this thing off the ground I get so nervous. I have dropped it off a stand before and willing to try to lay it down and see how it works. Redneck bike work I know.
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Nuts4mc
Posted on Friday, July 27, 2012 - 06:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

gravity never takes a break - it always working - if you lay it down on the rear brake side ( gotta unscrew (Left hand thds by the way) the axle) - you may have a tough time with brake pads falling out or falling together when you go to install the wheel ( not to mention what's it gonna do with the brake fluid in the reservoirs...brake fluid eats paint/plastic)...suggest some tie downs ( or rope) and suspend it from the rafters (keep it vertical Wb20!)(pull off the rear seat cowl and hook up to the subframe ( in (2) places) or pull the seat and look for a place to pull a tie down thru and under the sub frame...or hang it from kid's swing set...but only 1 wheel at a time - don't think a swing set can handle the total weight of the bike....also there is a "pinch bolt" that clamps the axle (on the belt drive side - look under the Sw-arm)) make sure you use the correct size allen wrench in that bolt - don't strip the "head"
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Froggy
Posted on Friday, July 27, 2012 - 07:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I've seen a Ulysses laid on its side to remove a wheel with a cut tire, so I don't see why that wouldn't be an option for you provided you are careful.
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Wbeamer20
Posted on Friday, July 27, 2012 - 09:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Okay great advice Nuts...bike is hanging from the rafters and wheel is off. The bearing is flush against the spacer and I do not see how you could get to it with a hammer and flathead. Any options without a bearing puller?
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Nuts4mc
Posted on Saturday, July 28, 2012 - 12:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Ohhhh WB20...there is a spacer inside between the races...when you tighten the axle the inner races tighten on each other thru that spacer (kinda like a vise gripping a part)
the spacer forces the inner races to turn and not (1) slip on the axle, (2) force the bearing to it's job (spin the balls not the races in the bore(s))
if you ever removed external races on a automobile's front hub ( they're pressed in) (rear wheel drive type car)...they cast a "groove" in the hub to let you put a drift punch in the spindle bore and drive the race out with a hammer....same idea - but NO Groove.
before we get started take note as to how far "in" the bearings are pressed into the wheel...Hint - digital camera time.
a) find a long punch/steel rod/ heavy wall snall dia. pipe/tubing...has to be long enough ( 18" long?) to hang on to and go all the way thru the wheel (thru the hole where the axle goes) ...1/2" dia. would work any thing too large (1" dia) you may not be able to "angle it" to catch the inner race on the other side...I would NOT use a screw driver - the handle absorbs the impact from the hammer blows.
b)The "vise" is gone...the axle is out and on the bench...there is little tension holding the inner races against the spacer at this time...find something (a couple of 2 x4s or 4x4s...cut them short enough to support the hub...but you CANNOT make them too long or you will bend the pulley and or the brake disk put the 2x4s on the floor and wheel on the 2x4s or 4x4s...we're gonna hammer the bearings out!
c) this is where you need a little experience - and I can't send you any via the internet - the punch has to be long enough so you can hold it at an angle thru the axle bore with a nice square cut end ( the bar can be round the end must be perpendicular ( square) to the length) to try and catch the edge of the inside of the inner race on the opposite side of the wheel...even if you can't get a start..put the "punch" in (against the end of the spacer not into the bearing)and tap the end of the punch that is sticking out "sideways" - it'll move the spacer to the side...don't go nuts and gouge out the spacer ( it's aluminum)- if you do you can easily "clean it up with some emery cloth/sand paper once you get it out.
d)hopefully the spacer has moved enough so you can get a "bite" on the inner race of the bearing. STOP and think - that bearing is shot - if you wail on the punch with 32 oz ball pein - you may destroy the bearing but leave the outer race in the wheel - NOT GOOD - use many small taps to move the whole bearing out - patience is the key - this is not something you want to start at 9pm at night and hurry thru.
e) If you decide to heat the wheel do NOT do it with an open flame - the grease will catch on fire and you will burn the house down.. use a heat gun or wifey's blow dryer ( buy her a new one if you get caught)...the press fit between the outer race and the wheel is not very tight - tapping the inner race with a solid piece of steel will get it moving...if you use heat - the wheel is aluminum and the bearing is steel they expand at different rates - heat only the wheel if you can. (I didn't need to when I did mine.)
f) got the bearing out? - remove that spacer and tap out the other bearing...take your time be careful not to bend the pulley or brake disk.
g) clean up the bore in the wheel where we are going to install the new bearings- light sand paper/scotch bright pad... make it smooth and clean.
h) where's the new bearings? did you get them on line at applied.com? - Rear P/N Koyo 6006.2RSC3 ( $20.08 ea)and the fronts Koyo 6005.2RSC3 ( $17.73 ea) gotta be double SEALED...Koyo makes bearings for Toyota (it says so on the internet so it must be true!)- unwrap them put them in some zip lock bags and put them in the freezer...find the old bearings.. you didn't throw them out did you?
h) find a bench grinder or a big disk sander... clean the grease off the old bearings...which one bearing looks in the best shape? take the OTHER old bearing and grind down the outside diameter - just enough so it falls into the wheel=your new bearing installation tool ( you only need to do 1)
i) again you need some experience ( we learn buy doing)... I would start on the pulley side...support the brake side on the 2x4s...look at your photos ...how far "in" is that bearing?... look at the outer race in relation to the wheel's bearing bore...that's how far in we are gonna "tap" in the new bearing...?
j) take the bearings out of the freezer and line up the bearing tool with the new bearing - do the seals interfere with one another ( if the seals are still in the old bearing) (do they touch?) - does the inner race interfere with the new inner race? STOP
put the NEW bearings back in the freezer - break the old bearing "tool" apart ( hammer and drift punch) where all you have left is the outer race...
k) warm up the wheel, pull out the frozen bearings and install ONE in the wheel - do you best to start it straight use the bearing tool to contact the outer race on the new bearing and with a hammer tap the tool which will drive in the new bearing. ONLY HIT THE TOOL'S OUTER RACE!..chk your earlier photos to make sure it's "in".
l) turn the wheel over supported by the 2x4s - find the spacer! - you may want to replace it with a new one especially if the wheel has been on and off many times...the length of the spacer is critical to the wheel bearings...
put some heavy grease on the end of the spacer and place it in the wheel the grease is going to "hold" the spacer in place while we install the last bearing...(you can "cheat" and place the axle up thru the new bearing and have it "hold" the spacer in place - but be careful not to damage the threads of the axle - it's aluminum!
m) warm up the wheel, take the bearing out of the freezer - place it in the wheel and use the tool to tap in place...how far do you tap it in? - just until the spacer touches the inner race - then STOP....DO NOT GO TOO FAR - you will ruin your new bearings.
n) chk the bearings for rotation --- watch out the spacer doesn't fall out of alignment (I believe the wheel is cast with some "stops" to catch the spacer from falling too far)...be careful with the wheel assembly this first time with new bearings - install the wheel- make sure the belt is "on" ( the axle is thru it...I would NOT install the belt on the pulley at this time- let it hang loose - we need to set the bearings) and the brake pads are back in the caliper... install the axle and use a torque wrench to tighten it TWICE ( LEFT HAND THREADS)...first time 23-27 ft lbs...does it spin nice and smooth? you may have some brake pad drag...loosen the axle two turns - then tighten it to a final torque of 48-52 ft lbs...does it still spin smoothly? - I guess you did it - congratulations!...take the axle out (again) so you can install the belt on the pulley.
now do it again for the front wheel (if it needs it)
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Oldog
Posted on Saturday, July 28, 2012 - 02:06 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Nice writeup Nutz!

+2
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Wbeamer20
Posted on Saturday, July 28, 2012 - 06:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

RESULTS:

Thanks for everyone's help. Bike hung perfect from the rafters (aside from my wife missing her hair appointment while she held the front during rear tire reassembly) and tips on getting bearings out helped.

Went to autozone and rented a bearing puller and that worked like a charm. Bad bearing wouldnt come out but the good one would. Popped out the good one and then used a screw driver to pop out the bad one.

Point of order:

Belt side bearing after installation did not go in as nice as the caliper side bearing. It was not quite as flush. Did not rotate as freely by hand as I would have liked to see. This was probably due to putting the first bearing in too deep. I thought I was screwed. Upon reapplication of rear tire it spun nicely/freely and felt like the bearings were acting as they should. Rode to the end of the block at low speed and bike felt fine. Did a 100 mph wheelie just to make sure it was still acting like an 1125r and it felt fine.

Only time will tell if this project works or I spin another set of bearings sooner than later.

Thanks for all your help BOARD!

William
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Iamarchangel
Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2012 - 12:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Note: bearings are universal. Go with the number on the bearing and match that. Usually a bearing specialty shop will have better quality and better price than a dealership.

I admit I don't know what brand bearings Buell uses stock but I'd replace with SKF or FAG.
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Redcrrider
Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2012 - 02:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The service manual says to fully seat the brake side bearing first, then the belt side until it just touches the inner spacer, so it will not sit as flush as the brake side.
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Advanced66
Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2012 - 10:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Sounds like you've got it handled as far as how to fix, but I've got a good idea as to why it happened, at about 4 k , mine had same issue, the first time I needed new rear tire, I took it to Harley and had them install a new perrelli, shortly after I had issue. After 11k and three sets of bearings, my new mechanic, discovered that the guys at Harley had over tightened the axle nut, there by compressing the aluminium spacer. Just a little FYI.
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