| Author | Message | ||
     Jumbo_shrimp |
Hello everyone! I have been reading everything here for a little while in my search for a 1125r (which is hard to come by here in Hawaii) I have found one but after reading so much about the piece of junk stator and VR and everything it has me nervous. I was going to look at it the other day but he called to tell me that the battery was dead and I wouldn't be able to hear it run. which was the first thing that kind of made me a little nervous. The bike has 9k miles on it and supposedly never had and issue and nothing has been replaced. Could anyone give me some tips to check for faults in the bike which would be awesome! or how to get it to show that it has a problem so I can talk the price down, because I have my heart set on the 1125s and I just need to know if I need to calculate a stator and rotor change and everything. Well thank you for your time! | ||
| Timebandit |
There's been quite a bit of disinformation propagated on this forum about regulation. I wouldn't go so far as to say that the VR and stator are junk, they're not. I've taken the Ducati regulator apart. It's a MOSFET-based shunt regulator that uses a complex computer monitoring circuit. In spite of what people like to say on this forum, it's not a piece of junk. Without a doubt, it's the best shunt regulator on the market. In reality, there's no objective data to substantiate the propaganda that says that the Shindengen product is better. The bike does have it's heat-related problems. If you want to buy an 1125 then you need to learn what it's going to cost you in maintenance and not be shy about it. IMO too many people are complaining about maintenance costs on a bike that you can buy for pennies on the dollar of what similar performance actually costs. The first negotiation fact that you need to bring up is that every 1125 needs to have the oiling rotor installed. That means shipping your rotor round trip to Wisconsin and back, plus $175 for the work, plus labor. Factor all that into the cost of your bike. Additionally, consider that you may need a new vreg and/or stator plus the cost of labor if the bike won't run. Add those prices and labor to the amount that you'll subtract from a bike that won't run. Under no circumstances would I consider buying a bike that does not run. Force the seller to replace the battery or walk away. At an absolute minimum, take a good battery with you. Have him unhook the bike's battery and hook up your known to be good external battery for a run test. If the charging system produces 13.6 to 14.1 volts then your stator, rotor, and vreg are working. At least for now. Even if the bike runs, I still wouldn't consider buying it without performing a ride test, and that means that it's going to need a decent battery. If the bike passes the idle tests with your battery then the next step is to require a battery for the ride test. The seller should have no qualms about anyone performing a ride test, so if he wants to sell the bike, he should take the buyer seriously enough to put a passable battery in it. | ||
| Sprintst |
TB - do we know FOR SURE that the oiling rotor, alone, is the solution? Is the stock setup a guaranteed time bomb, or based on riding style? Or does the riding style simply accelerate or prolong it, but you will still have the problem This is one thing I've been worried about going from a 2008 to a 2009 I was planning on checking my warranty status and then post up a thread. I find the existing information on this board inconclusive. (Message edited by sprintst on June 26, 2012) | ||
| Timebandit |
He didn't ask if the oiling rotor is "the solution." He asked what issues to bring up in negotiation to bring the price down. The need for the oiling rotor is a valid point to bring up if you're buying a used bike. So is having the harness installed. I'd penalize the seller pretty harshly if the bike doesn't have the harness update. I've made someone get the harness update installed as part of negotiating on a used bike. Regarding your question about whether the oiler is FOR SURE the solution, if you have a chance to talk to the two principle engineers on the 1125, they'll tell you that 1190 oiler is the only option they'll recommend. Period. Still, it's probably a good idea to retain some doubt, just to be on the safe side. Use whatever tools are available to you. I have the oiling rotor and the harness on my bike, but because of my riding style I never fall into the 2000-4200 pit for more than a second or two, and I seriously doubt if my harness has *EVER* gone active. Even with the oiling rotor, my stator will be one that gets higher temps than most because I don't take short rides, I take long ones. I ride until the bike is empty, and refill it. My stator accumulates lots of electrically generated heat. To mitigate that problem, I don't ride slow. I never idle. I never commute. I go out of my way to ride on back roads with stop signs but no stoplights. I ride fast, keep the RPM & oil pressure up, and keep air moving across the coolers. On pit stops I give the bike 15 minutes to cool down. These may not be a perfect fixes, but they're the best solutions that are available. I don't where you get the impression that the information on the board is at all inconclusive. In my eyes, it's exactly the opposite. The answers are quite clear. All of the objective data that I have seen to date is in agreement -- it conclusively shows that stator life is highly dependent on several factors, riding style being predominant; idling, low speed, low RPM, and long duration rides are the kiss of death. Some people have been trying to muddy up the clarity of the solution in order to forward personal agendas. Maybe that's what's causing the problem. Go ahead and switch to a a "series" reg, or keep the free harness "series" reg if you want to. They both do the same thing. At the highest level of comprehension, I don't think any of this information remains in dispute. It's pretty simple, actually. I think that some people are just trying to keep the water muddied in order to foster their own agenda. Is there a FOR SURE solution that fixes the problem forever? Probably not. Nothing lasts forever. I just installed the oiling rotor and stopped looking back. If something breaks, like a stator or a regulator, I'll just fix it and move along. In the meantime, I'm not at all worried. | ||
| Jumbo_shrimp |
Thank you so much for that quick reply! Maintenance costs is a given I understand what it costs to keep a bike up and in running condition. But you’re suggesting that I install an oiling rotor as like almost a mandatory upgrade? Also, I would probably end up upgrading the EBR stator down the road but supposedly it is fine for now I see mixed reviews on the stator when they’re passed like the 6k mile marker. I also would not buy the bike if it is not running I have not checked it out because I told him i am only interested in a running motorcycle. So say it was just a “dead battery” does the instrument cluster display the voltage so I can check that it is running in the 13.6-14.1 range or do I need to take along a voltmeter or something? Also do most people see the low voltage after the bike has run for a little while or is it immediately right once the bike is started? So I kind of know to let it idle to check before I take it for a test ride and also check during the ride? Thanks I hope I’m writing this clearly. -Travis | ||
| Timebandit |
a 2009 instrument cluster will display battery voltage if you cycle through the menus to get it. no external VOM required. you should get 14.0-14.1 as soon as you start the bike and ride it. the 2009 system makes enough juice to charge at idle. if you see 12.x at any time that the bike is running then something is wrong with the charging system. find out if the bike has the recall harness. there is no "almost" about it, the oiling rotor is considered to be a mandatory upgrade. buy it without hesitation. I don't know what you mean about the EBR stator. EBR isn't selling stators. hth | ||
| Stimbrell |
Real answer, this bike is seriously flawed, unless you see this bike through the rose tinted glasses the very vocal minority here do then you can do far, far better for far, far less cost, if you need a bike that is reliable, as your only daily transport for example, then this is one of the worst possible choices you can make, honestly, unless you are really in to owning a Buell 1125, it is a crap purchase. Honest truth from an owner. Please do not fall for the hype like I did. | ||
| Jdugger |
> this bike is seriously flawed I would really disagree with that. It works pretty well for what I do with it, and doesn't have a service incidence really any worse than even my Honda 600 all things considered. Of course, I would say buying any sportbike as a daily driver is a seriously flawed move in the first place, so clearly there's a range of opinion on the subject. (Message edited by jdugger on June 27, 2012) | ||
| Jdugger |
> Is the stock setup a guaranteed time bomb, or based on riding style? I would say application has something to do with it, yes. The bike isn't a good choice for commuting or consistent, low-RPM operation, IMHO. It wants to be run, run quite hard, and kept around/above 6k RPM for most of its operational life. I probably have more miles in the seat of an 1125r than just about anybody in the world... I'm certainly in the top 10. I've never had a stator failure. EVER. | ||
| Timebandit |
> this bike is seriously flawed I really disagree with that too. My bike has been 100% reliable, more so than any of my other bikes. The only issue that I have ever had with it has been the software glitch in the instrument cluster that caused the Low Fuel Lamp to come on inappropriately when it was cold outside. I honestly believe that you're going to encounter problems using any hypersport/racing heritage bike as a commuter that gets stuck in traffic. Try doing the same things on a Duc or an Aprilia and you're bound to run into similar problems. If you check the Duc and Aprilia forums, those guys are having similar problems. It's all about application. One reason that more people seem to be complaining about the 1125 is attributable to it's ergonomics. It's riding position is so much more comfortable than the 1198 that it doesn't make the put-put crowd want to get off of the bike and look elsewhere. The result is that the ergos keep a lot of people on the 1125 that might get off of it and look elsewhere if it were as uncomfortable as other bikes in it's performance class. There are a fair number of disgruntled 1125 owners who bought the bike, claiming that HD allegedly misrepresented the bike as being a totally reliable commuter. These people make arguments like, "Since it was sold to me as a street bike it should be 100% reliable no matter how I use it on the street." I don't ever remember seeing the 1125 advertised as a reliable streetbike; in my recollection it was always represented as a street legal high performance/ hypersport/ race-derived platform. I think the viewpoint that it should be as reliable as a Sportster is somewhat naive. I think that the fire sale put a lot of asses in the wrong seats. There isn't any doubt that some people are deploying the 1125 in applications in which it is poorly suited, and it's weaknesses in these areas are being magnified out of proportion. Those people tend to experience lots of problems. It's interesting that even though the problems tend to recur, these people don't seem to be modifying their behavior. If it's fair to say that the bike is seriously flawed, then it's just as fair to say that some peoples' ideation of how the bike should be used is seriously flawed. I get the impression that some people are just reluctant to admit that they've made a mistake. | ||
| Rogue_biker |
I do think it's fair to say that on average, you can ride a Japanese sportbike in normal public roads, that includes traffic while commuting, back roads, touring, or any combination of these, for 100k miles or more and not encounter a single failure in its charging system, fuel system, instrument cluster, brakes, clutch, etc. Expecting an owner of a street motorcycle of any kind to ride it in a special manner that fits its "comfort zone" is not realistic. I commute with my bike and I occasionally get caught in bumper to bumper traffic, stop and go riding not exceeding 25 mph for miles and miles, etc. I also ride it long distances, aggressively in the canyons and mountains of Southern California, etc. I expect my 1125R NOT to have any kind of failure under these conditions. If it does I woul be mighty pissed off. I don't want to have to pamper it to ensure it doesn't fail. I actually just ride mine normal and so far so good. However, I can understand other owner's frustration on their 1125's, or any other bike for that matter, when their machines fail them under these very same riding conditions. I've owned several Japanese sportbikes and have ridden them all this way and not once did I have any kind of failure. So that is my benchmark that I draw from. | ||
| Sprintst |
I put 12,500 miles on my 2008, I had ZERO problems. Oil changes, tires, brake pads and the valve check. That's it. Sounds like I need to get the EBR oiling rotor, and my 2009 should be the same. BTW - my buddies Honda 1000 repsol (JAPANESE BIKE) just blew it's rotor and regulator, which he tells me it a certainty, but at least Honda did an extended warranty He had about 20k on it, way less than the 100,000 that is claimed above I do expect this bike to survive normal riding. I don't commute, but I don't see why I can't. I can't control traffic, and if I get stuck in stop and go for 45 minutes I wouldn't expect a $1000 repair bill (Message edited by sprintst on June 27, 2012) | ||
| Rogue_biker |
There are quite a few Jap sportbikes out there pushing 100k miles with nothing more than wear and tear. It's not a claim, it's a fact. But it's not a sweeping generalization that ALL Japanese sportbikes will not fail anything over its life. My '06 Firebolt needed an R&R the fuel pump, new cooling fan, new front rotor, new headlights, all within 30k miles. My '01 VFR and '00 Hayabusa needed nothing during the same miles under the same riding conditions. My previous bikes before that, same thing. I still love my Buells. But the truth is, such failures I experienced on my Firebolt, and my 1125R, should NOT have happened. Especially on the Firebolt, which had been in production for several years. I'm not putting down Buell. I love the brand and the bikes. I'm just stating that their reliability lags behind the Japanese bikes. You can say the same thing for H-D's, Ducati's, Moto Guzzi, and BMW. They all have their problems. Just don't put Buell reliability on a pedestal is all I'm saying. | ||
| Jdugger |
I wouldn't put the Buell on a reliability pedestal against a jap bike for sure, I just don't think they are "seriously flawed". We are endurance racing a 2003 Honda CBR600RR in classic this year that's only got about 3,000 miles on it, and it's got the same shit list of problems any bike would have: clogged brake rotor mounts, brineled steering head, exhausted suspension, tired motor, chain & sprockets, etc, etc, etc. It's also had a mystery loss of power, failed us at least once by mysteriously dying and we can't diagnose it, and so on. It's a friggin' sportbike. They are more uptight than a librarian at a porn convention and they have more problems than a stripper at a dive bar. In this light, the Buell isn't better, but it ain't all that bad. It's a LONG way from "seriously flawed" even if it isn't as durable and reliable as the Japanese makes. | ||
| Stimbrell |
As an example in just the last few weeks, against my better judgement, I took a 300 mile round trip, all high speed motorway, not commuting!! on the 1125, now it did rain for the entire journey but I did not expect a bike with less than 8K miles on it to have the rear wheel bearings seize, someone will now tell me commuting causes wheel bearing failures, now in the US this particular failure gets you a new three bearing wheel, here in the UK I get new wheel bearings, this was followed by being left on the side of the road when the side stand spring fell off when riding, (interlock stalls bike) I was told the warranty does not cover bits that fall off the bike! I ride this bike exactly the same as all the Japanese sport bikes I have owned in over thirty years, one of them needed a head gasket once. | ||
| Jdugger |
Honestly, motorway might be as bad as commuting. These things really want to be ridden hard in the canyons or on track days. The rear wheel bearings are a known issue -- it's the belt drive that causes them to fail at a higher rate than other final drive types. The UK's wet environment certainly doesn't help, but for that problem, you are right, the Buell is more service prone. As for the side stand... I've had that happen on a couple of different bikes and now none of my bikes have them and the interlock is wired positive. On the road, the quick fix to stay alive is a zip-tie. Tie it at your stops, then just break the zip tie when you get to a gas stop. | ||
| Stimbrell |
So..... the 1125 can not be used in town or on the open road and I have no tracks or canyons anywhere near me. I'm pretty much screwed then, which brings me back to my original advise to any potential new owner, do not buy one of these bikes. | ||
| Rogue_biker |
Honestly, motorway might be as bad as commuting. These things really want to be ridden hard in the canyons or on track days. Then it shouldn't be street legal and just a track bike. That's my whole point. It should be able to handle commuting, touring, fast twisty roads, some track, etc. and does not require any special attention. I still love mine and it has been reliable. It had all the known issues of 2008 models including failing instrument clusters and falling side stands when she was new and needed to have its recalls and TSB work done. After that she's been rock solid. Still, possible issues are always in mind when I'm riding her. OTOH, I never thought about those things with my 6th generation VFR800 (a bike that had a few electrical issues when it first came out). | ||
| Rogue_biker |
So..... the 1125 can not be used in town or on the open road and I have no tracks or canyons anywhere near me. I'm pretty much screwed then, which brings me back to my original advise to any potential new owner, do not buy one of these bikes. That's not true. Just ride it like any normal bike and work through any issues. I believe if the bike received all the recalls and TSB's, it's inherently reliable. However, don't ignore signs of trouble. Fix issues immediately. I would treat Ducati's, H-D's, and BMW's the same way. | ||
| Timebandit |
> "I was told the warranty does not cover bits that fall off the bike!" I wonder where you got that information. Probably from a dealer and not the factory. If your bike is still in warranty, HD will cover parts that fall off. BTDT. Fasteners that were not properly torqued at the factory are covered under the "workmanship" clause, and fasteners that fail due to mechanical defect are covered under the "material defects" clause. If you are out of warranty or you messed with the fastener, it's your problem. | ||
| Froggy |
Both of my 1125s have been fine overall with nothing but commuting, in town, and highway use. Did a few track days on my CR, that was a hoot. Over 40k miles combined on them. I can vouch for the warranty covering things that fall off, my windshield on my Uly decided it liked the truck behind me more than the bike, so I went to my dealer and they ordered up a new one. | ||
| Daggar |
I've got over 35k miles on mine, and it's used primarily for commuting. Lots of freeway, backroads, and in-town. It has only left me stranded once, when the belt broke at around 25k. It also had the typical issues that all 08's seem to suffer from, but they were all fixed under warranty. Currently I'm waiting on a new IC cause the tach wigged out on me, but that doesn't effect the rideability. Other than those things, It has been reliable as a hammer. It's my daily commuter, rain or shine. I plan on riding up to Redmond, later this summer for a work conference, and expect that I will have no issues, like usual. | ||
| Jdugger |
Stim, Twist the throttle and don't shift it so much. | ||
| Dannybuell |
If you ride this bike like you are ready for the bike to 'get up and go' you are at or near 4,000 RPMs. Coincidentally this is when the electrical system starts to work. | ||
| Stimbrell |
"Twist the throttle and don't shift it so much" And that will stop wheel bearing failure and the side stand spring falling off? seriously? (Message edited by stimbrell on June 28, 2012) | ||
| Timebandit |
More disinformation being disseminated on BadWeb. What you've said is exactly the opposite of what actually happens in the stock 2009 charging system. The unaltered 2009 charging system produces enough power at idle to charge the bike. Charging system output increases fairly linearly as a function of RPM, until the magnetic flux of the stator becomes limited by the B-field of the rotor. At that RPM value the plot of power output vs. RPM STOPS increasing as RPM increases, and the power curve flattens out in a plateau. The changeover point is right around at 4000 RPM. It would be more accurate to say that 4000 RPM is the point where the stock charging system STOPS producing more power as you take RPM up the tachometer. | ||
| Dannybuell |
For 2 years people have said here to keep the RPM's up and the system will fare better. IDK, seems to be more volts than idling and putting around... | ||
| Rogue_biker |
It would be more accurate to say that 4000 RPM is the point where the stock charging system STOPS producing more power as you take RPM up the tachometer. Is this true for 2008's with the lower output stator? | ||
| Sprintst |
Timebandit - see why I said I don't find the problem and solution to be clear on this forum? Lot's of opinions floating about | ||
| Crmike |
Can someone post the NHTSA Bulletin that stated the issue? Didnt it say something like "extended duty periods below 5000 rpm" something something something? I just try to keep my revs on my 09cr never lower than 4500 and often shift at or above 5000, frequently goose it and ride fast enough to keep the CT around 180 to 190. Havent had any voltage problems, but my bike only has about 5200 miles. It has had the harness on it since 1200 miles at least and when I first bought the bike and didnt know about the stator issues i would frequently have it in stop and go traffic, bumper to bumper for hours sometimes, with the CT at 212 and above often. No problems at this point, knock on wood. I think it depends on how you ride the bike. Dont cook it. |
