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Morpheuz
Posted on Monday, June 18, 2012 - 06:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

hi i do not use to write a lot, but i alway read your posts.
Did anyone using the 1125 only for track days experience issues on oil consumption?
i've been in a very fast circuit (max speed 260km/h with my cr) and, after the whole day (about 200km, 160 miles)the 2,7 liters of engine oil (motul v300 10w40) has gone and only 1,5 liters were in....

a friend of mine, racing with me on the same track, same day, on a CR 1125 with same oil, did not experience at all the issue.

the only different we have is the ECM: mine an EBR, pump gas, his is a stock.

engine is now under inspections...but...

thanks

(Message edited by Morpheuz on June 18, 2012)

(Message edited by Morpheuz on June 18, 2012)

(Message edited by Morpheuz on June 18, 2012)

(Message edited by Morpheuz on June 18, 2012)
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Jdugger
Posted on Monday, June 18, 2012 - 09:12 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I've not known these motors to burn oil. I have known them to SOIL the oil rather quickly, depending on clutch set-up and other factors.

If you are running the bike hard, move the oil service interval up quite a bit. Fresh oil and filter, including dropping/cleaning the motor screen every 5-10 hours or so, or as soon as the transmission isn't perfectly smooth and silky or the oil color changes.

Run 15-50, too.
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Morpheuz
Posted on Monday, June 18, 2012 - 09:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

that's was i've been told and what i expect.
oil/filte change is done almost every 600/800 km (2-3 track days).
No issue before been at Mugello (i had 6 track days with oil change and everything was always fine).
tracks were not so fast and with short straights.

May an extra RPM limit drive to unexpected oil consumption?

The track i've been is Mugello and you are always at top RPM.
main straight is about 1km and you run the bike at RPM limit for almost 10 sec (from 4th gear to 6th) each turn.

i do not really understand.
EBR itself told me is quite "strange"....

i'm really lost.
: ( : ( : (
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Kruizen
Posted on Monday, June 18, 2012 - 10:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Maybe you need a locking oil cap-jk lol. As seen in another thread.
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Jdugger
Posted on Monday, June 18, 2012 - 11:01 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

It is strange -- I had over 15,000 track miles on a track with .6km and .5km long straights and no issues with oil burn, even after the motor had lost a little power from all the abuse.

The bikes will blow oil into the airbox if over-filled, but that doesn't sound like what's happening here.

I feel for you -- sounds like dropping the motor and going through it is the next step.
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Timebandit
Posted on Monday, June 18, 2012 - 03:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

JD, at the risk of asking the obvious, if you're changing oil every 5-10 hours due to the accumulation of clutch debris, then you're doing it every weekend, right? With such short intervals it makes me think you'd be using mineral oil instead of synthetic.
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Jdugger
Posted on Monday, June 18, 2012 - 04:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

> then you're doing it every weekend, right?

Not really.

A typical track day is six 20-minute sessions or so, so 2 hours of motor time.

I probably end up changing it once a month, though...

(Message edited by jdugger on June 18, 2012)
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Morpheuz
Posted on Tuesday, June 19, 2012 - 07:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Engine runs fine so far.
I'm checking OIL level and smoke from exhaust.
Normal procedure foreseen to add about 400 ml within first 500 km and change within 1000/1200

Engine oil consumption was fine before mugello. I've changed twice and no extra consumption have been reported.

Only when I go to mugello.... That's, at least, suspicious.

I'm going to go to mugello this end of June.
I will for sure test oil consumption and verify assumptions we are making.
We will see.
Any suggestion is wellcome ..
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Fast1075
Posted on Tuesday, June 19, 2012 - 08:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Did you miss a gear or over rev it? If you are losing oil, it is either leaking out or being consumed. I would do a leak down on the motor, but it is possible to pass leak down and still have poor oil ring seal.

Also, exhaust guides or seals will lose oil without affecting the color of the plugs. If the problem is in the intake guides or seals, it will at least color the plugs, if not foul them. But it will most likely smoke to a degree during decel.
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Morpheuz
Posted on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 - 05:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Over rev limit sure.
10.900
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Blake
Posted on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 - 07:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

>>> Posted by Morpheuz (of Monza, Milan, Italia) on Tuesday, June 19, 2012 - 07:24 am:  

>>> I'm going to go to Mugello this end of June.

>>> Any suggestion is welcome.

I have one in mind, but it's born of envy, so I'll withhold for now. : ]

A leak-down test for sure is called for to test the integrity of combustion chamber sealing. If that shows good, then valve guides/seals ought to be inspected.
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Rogue_biker
Posted on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 - 11:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

My previous Hayabusa suffered valve seal deterioration around the 40k mile mark thanks to the wrench monkeys at my Suzuki dealership. They replaced the cam chain tensioner at 15k miles, then screwed up the job big time. I had them re-install it but the damage was already done. By 40k miles, the oil burning began. On deceleration it would smoke and my buddies following behind me (they were always behind my Hayabusa! : ) ) would tell me they could see and smell burning oil. I just kept riding and filling. I wasn't going to rebuild the motor. I traded it in for a Firebolt with 52k miles on it. It was as strong as ever and I just kept a close eye on oil level.
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Jdugger
Posted on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 - 12:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

> Over rev limit sure.
> 10.900

I think the stock motor is actually OK to 11k. Don't make a habit of it, of course, but I doubt you did any damage spinning it to 10.9k.

With the right rod bolts, you can spin to 11.125k in an otherwise stock motor.

There's not a lot of torque up there, so I don't really see the point unless you are holding on just a titch for a corner.
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Stirz007
Posted on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 - 01:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Losing something like 1.2 liters in a day would seem to result in some pretty obvious signs - like lots of smoke or lots of oil in the airbox or on the bodywork.... you sure you started with 2.7 liters?

That would be my first guess... (it's not like I've ever put in the wrong oil or forgot a quart somewhere....).

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Morpheuz
Posted on Saturday, June 23, 2012 - 05:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Some friends of mine told me about black smoke from the pipe.
I did find burned oil on the swingram.
I'm checking constantly oil level, but no procedure assures good results.. I will go for a track day tomorrow and later drain the whole oil and see how much it will be. Now it's full load!
: )
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Stirz007
Posted on Sunday, June 24, 2012 - 01:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The oil check procedure is problematic, for sure. Your 'total volume' method is probably as accurate a measure of loss as any. Are you dropping the screen? There's a couple hundred ml in there. Please advise if you get another big loss day...I'd hate to fry a perfectly good motor.
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Morpheuz
Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2012 - 06:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

update.
i've been testing the consumption in the last track days.

I've ran about 150miles and lost about 1 kg of oil. (about 1/3 of total)

The bike ran fine and fast as always, pushing hard on corners exit and along the straights.

no rumors, no strange noises,no oil in the air filter case... nothing.
temp always around 85° - 95°C
Oil used MOTUL V300 10W 40

People looking at me reported smoke from the pipes when opening the throttle.
i found burned oil on swingram and inside the pipes....

i've refilled the whole oil and changed the filter.
Oil used MOTUL V300 15W 50

no leaks are visible anywhere.

start engine and at idle everything is fine: no smoke no rumors nothings.

if i open the throttle and runs above 4000 a line of white smoke appear form the pipes, but not always.

i'm not sure if it make sense to run an other test with oil viscosity to see if it resist more...or go to the doc and open the engine.... so much oil means only two thing, i guess: piston rings or valve seals....

shit!


sent a mail to EBR.... looking for a new engine or spares if i decide to open it or, "madly" go for a 1190 (i guess the first one in italy...
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Jdugger
Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2012 - 07:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Rings...
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