| Author | Message | ||
     Sprintst |
So I got the Pitbull for my 2008, but since that is totalled I now have a 2009 with spools Anyone know if I can convert? I feel like using the spools simple because they are more secure. Could sell and buy the "right" one, but with shipping that means a local sale | ||
| Timebandit |
A friend has a similar problem -- he has both 2008 and 2009 bikes and wants to get one stand to work with both bikes, while using the spools on the 2009. I told him to buy the Pitbull stands, but he didn't want to buy both the 08 and 09 stands. I suggested that he ask Pitbull if he could buy one stand, like the 2009, and purchase additional adapters to work with the 2008 so he could use one stand with both bikes. You'd think that you could buy adapters to lift a 2008 bike if you have the 2009 stand. We were told by Pitbull that the 2009 stand has removable adapters (forks) for the spools, while the 2008 stand has the adapters welded onto the stand. Then we asked the obvious question -- we wanted to know if we could buy a 2008-style lifting adapter to slide into the slots on the 2009 stand. Pitbull's response was to tell us to buy both a 2008 stand and a 2009 stand. That's pretty ••••••• stupid on their part. | ||
| Craigg |
I don't have an 09 or have I tried to use the 08 Stand on an 09. So my questions is why not just use the 08 stand on the 09? If it works for the 2008 wouldn't it be just as secure on the 2009? | ||
| 1313 |
So my questions is why not just use the 08 stand on the 09? If it works for the 2008 wouldn't it be just as secure on the 2009? Works just fine for me! The beauty is the stand works on both my XB12XT and my 1125CR, 1313 | ||
| Timebandit |
I don't think the 2008 style stand is anywhere near as stable as the 2009 style stand. When I was disassembling the rotor from the crankshaft on my 2009, I applied so much torque that I tipped the bike over. The only reason that the stand stayed attached to the bike was because the spools wouldn't let go of the forks -- the fit is really tight. If I were on a 2008 stand the bike would have come off of those little ledges and fallen over on top of me. The 2008 stands have a reputation for the bikes falling off of them if you're not careful (or if you're stupidly ham-fisted like I was). There are photos of bikes falling off of the 2008 stands here in the forum. If I had a 2008 bike, I'd drill it for spools and use the 2009 stand, or be *really* careful in doing any work that involves a lot of torque. (Message edited by timebandit on May 14, 2012) | ||
| Sprintst |
So my questions is why not just use the 08 stand on the 09? If it works for the 2008 wouldn't it be just as secure on the 2009? Yes, it works, actually sitting on it right now However, the 08 method is far less secure and more finicky to get right than the spool method} | ||
| Cravacor |
I've got the '08 stand and '09 bike, it is not ideal, but it works... | ||
| Froggy |
I use my 08 stand on my 08 1125R, my 09 1125CR, my 06 XB12SS, and my 09 XB12XT. If your bike falls off the stand, you were doing something wrong and the spools would of done nothing. The 09 spool setup isn't any better, and if anything it is worse due to how easy it is for it to scratch your swingarm. | ||
| Mhpalin |
Right on Froggy I use the 08 stand on both my bikes 08 and 09 and have never come close to having them fall off the stand including when I installed the rotor bolt at 300ft lbs Mike | ||
| Timebandit |
Getting the rotor bolt off is more dangerous in terms of having the the bike come off of the stand than is putting the rotor bolt on, as the force vector is to lift the bike off of the stand when you're removing the bolt, and to push the bike down into the stand when you're installing the bolt. It's simple physics. There are plenty of people who prefer the 08 stands or the 09 stands and everyone has their reasons. I think it's funny to hear someone say that if your bike falls off of the 2008 stand that you're doing something wrong. It would be just as fair to say that if you scratch your swingarm with the 2009 stand then your a nimrod dufus who doesn't know what he's doing. The truth is that mistakes can happen either way. With that said, there are a lot of threads in the forum that will pop up if you search for "pitbull fell". The threads universally involve stories about bikes falling off of 2008 stands, many people admitting that it's happened to them, and then invariably one guy tells everyone that they're all doing it wrong.  | ||
| Froggy |
That is because I haven't seen a single case of a bike falling off that wasn't user error.
Nope, because the spool pit bulls come dangerously close to touching the swingarm, and if it isn't 100% perfect when you go to lift, it will contact. Hence why it is recommended to get aftermarket spools to space out further, or modify the stand to prevent contact.
I decided to take you up on that challenge and searched the 1125board for pitbull fell. 1 - 6 of 6 total results are now displayed. If you know of any threads where someone had it legitimately fell off and it wasn't operator error, please let me know. | ||
| Timebandit |
OK, I understand now -- when someone drops their bike from a 2008 stand it didn't "legitimately" fall off . It's user error because they're using the stand improperly. But when someone scratches their swingarm with the 2009 stand, that's not user error or improper use of the stand. It's the stand that is defective. Got it. | ||
| Sprintst |
I dropped my 08 off the stand when I first got it It was operator error, I didn't have the swing arm far enough back into the rollers I haven't had a problem since, but I am very careful to make sure I have the swing arm seated very deeply into the 3 rollers | ||
| Baf |
I had my 09 on the 08 stands doing tires not too long ago, and it felt solid as a rock. I grabbed onto the bike and shook it back and forth to see how stable it was, and it wasn't going anywhere. I won't be doing my rotor until next weekend (rotating the motor for 12k service at the same time), so we'll see how it works out for that, but between heating the rotor nut and possibly weighting the bike down, I don't anticipate any major issues. We'll see though. | ||
| Craigg |
I have never had my 08 fall of the 08 Pitbull stand. I did have it fall off a pitbull stand that wasn't made for the buell. Used the one off my old GSXR 600. Not the spool set up but the swing arm one. Thats when I sold the GSXR one and purchased the Buell one. Man was I pissed. Now I'm looking for a new swing arm since I have a big scratch in it. All the used ones have a scratch in them as well. EBR doesn't have any take offs either | ||
| Dktechguy112 |
I have the trex stands, they are about $150 (front and rear) and they come with free spools that are wider then the oem spools. With the wider spools the swingarm will not be scratched. I used them to remove both wheels and swap the tires, the stands held up well, very solid feeling. | ||
| Timebandit |
Somewhere around here there are pics of somebody's 1125 that got dropped off of a pitbull rear stand. Couldn't find it. I must've gotten one of a non-standard 2009 stands that doesn't scratch the swingarm when you're using the stock spools. I use it to put the bike up every day and I've never had a problem. But then I have the spacers locked down at the proper width and I'm careful about operator error. I think the spooled stands are fine if you're careful. One thing for sure, you can tip the bike over 45 degrees and the 2009 stand won't come off. | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
always always always remove and install all fasteners with downward force when any bike is on any stand. btw the cheap stand from cyclegeear fits my 08 with axle sliders perfectly. | ||
| Timebandit |
Of course you need to use downward force. When it happened to me I was removing the rotor nut with downward force. The breaker bar was horizontal to the ground and I was pushing down on it. The problem was caused by using a 1-foot extension on the socket so that I wouldn't hit the left pod with the handle of the breaker bar. What I failed to consider, and what many people might fail to consider, is that I was applying 400 Nm of downward torque pretty far off of the central axis of the bike. That created enough rotational torque about the bike's front-to-back axis that it caused the bike to lean about 45-degrees to the left, tipping the stand so that the right wheel was up about a foot in the air. Once I realized the problem I eased the bike back down. If the stand wasn't tightly locked into spools then it would have come off of a paddle type stand. No doubt about it. Once I got everything settled down I applied more heat to the loctite and it wasn't a problem. This just goes to show that downward force isn't always enough to keep you safe. Downward force can still tip the bike if you're applying rotational torque -- especially if your moment arm is wider than 1/2 of the stand's base. I hope someone learns from my experience so they don't put themselves at risk by making a similar mistake. | ||
| Pmjolly |
My '08 fell off my Pitbull when bleeding the clutch. I was turning the handle bars one way to fill the reservoir, and the other way to be able to reach the lever and bleeder screw at the same time. I had a small box end wrench on the bleeder screw. The bike walked forward off the stand. I never knew it was walking off the stand till it tipped. I tried to catch it, but it went away from me. It laid over rather easily into some cardboard boxes, but it still caused SEVERAL hundred dollars in damage. It cracked the fairing stay, broke the brake lever, and damaged the bleeder valve beyond repair. I got a take off fairing stay from EBR, and a new brake lever and complete clutch cover from the dealer. It was operator error on my part. You have to really watch those stands. | ||
| Cravacor |
If you're not fooling with the rear wheel, a stand that is basically two right triangles spaced a couple feet apart with a rod between them that goes through the axle is stout as can be for aping on rotor nuts and such. HDFR had a few surplus units after they closed their racing program. If anyone is interested in making one I can post up some pics. | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
so am going to guess that you weren't holding the other end of your breaker? that's not a slight i am being serious. | ||
| Timebandit |
The "walk off" problem is an inherent risk in the design of a paddle-type stand that secures the bike by gravity onto a short lipped base. The flat paddles don't "capture" the swingarm and hold onto it, preventing front/back/sideways movement the way that spools do. If paddle type stands were so great, then they would be the standard in the industry instead of the spool-type stands. But it seems that more people are buying spool type stands when they have a choice. There's probably a reason for that. Pat, I'm not so sure that you deserve all the blame for not watching the stand. Sure, by keeping your attention in two places at once you might have avoided the problem, but the expectation that a bike should not walk off of a rear stand when you're rotating the front wheel is entirely reasonable. I'm more inclined to think that it's unreasonable for the bike to walk off of the rear stand when you're doing something so inconsequential at the other end of the bike. A good stand design should be tolerant of a reasonable amount of wrenching without letting go of the bike, and it should allow you to focus on the work you're doing. I've yanked and twisted the front end on my bike, I've slid the bike across the room to get it out of the way, and I've accidentally tipped it 45-degrees, all while it was sitting in the rear stand and it's never budged out of the spools. Your experience suggests that the 2008 type stand is not very forgiving of subtle user errors and general movement of the bike. My experience is that the 2009 type stand is very forgiving of huge user errors and gross movements to reposition the bike. There will always be people who will say that just because they've never seen a failure then failures don't happen, and that only user errors cause stand malfunctions. We all understand how silly that is, as the first statement is based upon the premise that the speaker knows everything and the second is based upon the premise that he is not capable of making a similar mistake. Getting back on topic, I think that now that Sprintst has a brand-new 2009 bike, he has good reason to justify buying his new baby a new stand if that's what he wants to do. In the big scheme of things, it doesn't matter whether or not the reason that bikes fall off of the 2008 stands is operator error -- the fact remains that they have a reputation for falling off of the 2008 stands, and they don't have a reputation for falling off of the 2009 stands. That means that it makes sense for someone to buy the 2009 stand for their 2009 bike if that's what they want to do. If I had just changed bikes, I wouldn't hesitate to spend $150 to protect myself from operator error that could cause several hundred dollars in damage. It would also give me the benefit of never having to listen to someone profess that I dropped my bike out of operator error. For $150 it's cheap insurance and I'd be all over it. YMMV. | ||
| Pmjolly |
I now use this handy little Pitbull stand. It will NOT tip over. This is a trailer restraint I bought for cross country road trips. It holds the bike on the trailer with no need for tie downs. I purchased another base plate, and bolted it to the concrete with 3/8 drop in concrete anchors. Here I was using it to rotate my engine for a valve adjustment. I have since replaced that tire, too. North Texas has alot of straight roads! That's a clickable thumbnail.  | ||
| Timebandit |
so am going to guess that you weren't holding the other end of your breaker? that's not a slight i am being serious. No problems chiding me a little Brice, I'm willing to admit when I make a mistake if it will help someone to learn from it, myself included! I was holding the breaker at both ends -- left hand on the handle, pushing down to rotate the nut counterclockwise, right hand under the pivot, to keep the 12" extension bar horizontal so it would act as an axle and not allow the socket to flip off. In theory there shouldn't have been a problem. I guess my execution wasn't as good as my plan. I never would have had a problem if I had been using the locking trailer stand that Pat showed in the photo. (Message edited by timebandit on May 15, 2012) | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
i really wasn't chiding honest. but i am glad you've got a sense of humor. that much force with a 12" extension is an issue. def would want to get closer than that to the fastener if possible to avoid going so far off axis with that much force. i can't see the pic where i am now but will check it out later and i guess will have to add a pic of what i've got going on as well for comparison. | ||
| Timebandit |
I don't really know whether it was 12" or 8", I'm just guessing. I had to borrow a couple of 1/2" extension bars from my neighbor (my brother "borrowed" mine) and I'm not sure if they were 4" or 6". Either way, one extender wasn't enough for clearance of the pod so I had to use two, and regardless of whether it was 8" or 12" it was enough to cause a problem. The extenders ended up taking me away from the center of mass, and like you say, that can cause a problem. Trying to put a lot of force/weight on one end of the bar while supporting the other end is pretty hard to do. It wouldn't have been an issue if I had heated the loctite more, if I had supported the bar with a jackstand, or if I weren't trying to work around the pods/radiators and didn't need the extension. The good news is that I didn't drop the bike. Almost, but not quite. I can thank the spooled stand for that. I'm not afraid of looking stupid for doing this. I figure a lot of people are going to be doing rotors now, and if embarrassing me helps someone avoid damaging their bike then I'm all for it. | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
Gotcha. Jackstand is interesting idea. |
