| Author | Message | ||
     Rogue_biker |
I need the wisdom of the Collective once again. Shim question again. I got my Shim Measurement/Calculation worksheet all filled out. I checked the measurements twice. Checked the math 3 times. I even did a spreadsheet . I got the same results. My measurements show the valve lash right at minimum. Per the calculation, my desired shim size are 1.55mm / .061 in. I went to the nearest H-D dealership (who used to sell Buell) and tried the buy these shims. I was informed that the smallest shims are 2.0mm! The guy even showed me the page that shows part numbers (V-Rod) and indeed it shows the 2.0mm as the smallest available shims. The parts guy used to service Buells and he went to speak to one of his Mechanics who confirmed I should not replace the shims at this time as the lash is within spec. In any case, there are no shims small enough to adjust towards the middle of the range. Am I being BS’d? The micro-fische confirmed the smallest shim size but am I missing something? Please help! | ||
| Sprintst |
Have you evaluated removing the existing shims, and replacing with a combination that adds up to what you want? | ||
| Rogue_biker |
If I understand you correctly, how can I go DOWN to 1.55mm when the minimum size is 2mm? Unless I’m misunderstanding the logic of shims, 1.55mm is smaller than 2mm. | ||
| Nuts4mc |
confusion easily enters the logic when you mix valve clearance (a gap) with a shim size (a way to close the gap) is 1.55mm the "gap" (valve clearance)you want to obtain? or does a 1.55mm shim produce the gap (x.xxmm)) that you want to achieve? ( the mechanic at the dealer may have confused the two values) (a larger shim would close the gap to 1.55mm??)...I'm at work - I don't have access to the shop manual - but you need to apply (+) and (-) signs to your spread sheet to help you(or the dealer) request the correct shim size. Edit 2mm ~ .080" kinda thin ...1.55mm ~.061...there are rice burner ( "Hot Cams" kit for Kawi that have shims (~10mm dia) run down to 1.2mm ( in .05mm increments)if you search in the site you may find a rice burner shim that will be the correct dia and a after market kit with the correct thickness) good luck (Message edited by nuts4mc on February 29, 2012) | ||
| Rogue_biker |
Crap! I just realized my mistake! Nevermind. Thanks all. I read the wrong measurement. Revising spreadsheet now. (Message edited by rogue_biker on February 29, 2012) | ||
| Redcrrider |
Screw giving HD $3 per shim. Just buy a complete kit for $69. It's worth it just so i don't have to go driving around town looking for shims. http://www.procycle.us/hotcams/valve_shims.htm | ||
| Rogue_biker |
Hell yeah! Thanks Redcrrider! | ||
| Avalaugh |
There is also some confusion in the manual. Read my thread here http://www.badweatherbikers.com/cgibin/discus/disc us.cgi?pg=prev&topic=290431&page=658832 I was also getting results very similar to yours, ignore the brackets in the book (1)+(2)-(3)= (L) (1)+(2)-(4)= (U) and to get the desired shim size (S) ((L)+(U))/(2)= (S) using this method I got (S) as 1.935 ?? I was using (2) rather than just dividing by 2. Really the book is wrong, as the 2 shouldn't be in brackets. | ||
| Redcrrider |
If you plan to keep your bike for a long time, then the shim kit is a no brainer. I saved all my old shims too. I was worried that I might need 4 of the same size shims, kit only includes 3 each, but I didn't. Be sure to check the clearance again after putting in a new shim. | ||
| Rogue_biker |
I will order the Shim kit. After all this work I'm not about to sell the bike!  I plan to re-measure again this weekend. I'm not in any hurry as I want to ceramic coat the muffler too. Finally, I also got the heat shields on the inside of the frame, upgraded a few bits to Carbon Fiber, new axle, so the bike is a keeper for at least five years! | ||
| Sprintst |
So far, how hard would you rank the job? | ||
| Rogue_biker |
If you asked me this weekend, my answer would have been %$&*^%^&(*&!!!!! Now that I've done the deed (just need to reverse the process), I would say not so hard. If you know what to expect, got the tools, done it at least once, it's not that hard. The most time consuming part in the procedure is the preparation to engine rotation. Disconnect this, unbolt that, remove muffler, loosen the wiring, etc. I'm glad I did this. Really I am! (Message edited by rogue_biker on March 01, 2012) | ||
| Pmjolly |
+1 Rogue. It's not difficult. It does take some time, though. I'm planning on putting mine back together this weekend. I think it is going to be tricky to get the rear valve cover back on while keeping the gasket in place on the cover. I don't want to use gasket maker to hold it on the cover, as that can actually deform the rubber gasket causing it to leak. I am thinking I might try cleaning it really well, and using a thin coating of a mild spray type adhesive on the cover only. It should be thin enough and even enough to not cause any deformation of the gasket. | ||
| Two_seasons |
Why not use a thin coating of grease? | ||
| Rogue_biker |
I think that thin coating of grease around the gasket/cover interface is a great idea. I also found out that rotating the engine just a couple more inches down makes that rear valve cover slide in more easily and quickly. | ||
| Nuts4mc |
...on my vintage bike - I use anti-seize on the gaskets - works well and the gasket are "re-usable" if I need track side repairs. If the "gasket" is more like an "o-ring" I use silicone grease (like for spark plug boots) good luck | ||
| Rogue_biker |
I got all the shims replaced and the bike is now buttoned up. The Valve Covers went in without a hitch, even the rear ones. The front valve cover was actually just a bit tricky to fit--I had to rotate the engine slightly up to clear the front tire but that was not a big deal. The grease on the inside of the gasket worked. Thanks! After re-shimming, I re-measured the lash (after one revolution of the engine). All but two of the valves were at the loose end of the specs. However, two valves where one shim size more loose! WTF? So instead of having a .22mm of lash measurement, the two went to .25mm (Max spec is .22mm). I left them as is. Is this a risk? Will this hurt the engine? Or do valves normally get tight as miles accumulate, so putting them in the loose end of spec will eventually work itself out in say, 12k miles? | ||
| Nuts4mc |
think about...the valves - they get pull into the seat by the springs - they get pushed into the seats by compression- valve seat material is a tricky subject - especially on the exhaust side (some hi tech bike companies (Ducati)Formula 1/NASCAR types use Beryllium as a seat material, Beryllium transfers heat to the head, but Beryllium dust = lung cancer)) the valve tends to "wear" INTO the seat farther making the clearances smaller at the valve stem end - so setting the exhaust valves (which run hot and expand farther)on the "loose" side is a good thing. NOTE When compared to intake valves which get the cooling effect of the intake charge - a "loose" clearance on intake valves may make some noise until the engine comes up to operating temperature. | ||
| Rogue_biker |
Thanks for the clarification. Yes the exhaust were on the loose side--just one step looser than Spec but I figure mileage will tighten it up. I guess I will know at the next interval. | ||
| Pmjolly |
Wow. I had the exact same thing happen to me. I would have had my bike back together, but found two of the shims were one size off. I was aiming for the center of the spec with each valve. On 6 of the valves, I ended up at the loose end of the spec, but still within the limits. On both rear intake valves, I ended up just outside the spec on the loose side. I quit where I was. I don't want to take any chances. I am going to run by the dealer this afternoon and pick up a couple more shims. The front cover was a breeze with the wheel off. I am changing the fork oil. The rear cover is a pain! I have tried several times with different angles of approach, and can't seem to get it on there without knocking the gasket loose. Of course, I was just trying to figure it out. I don't have my proper shims yet. I even tried putting the gasket down on the cylinder head first, then putting it into the cover with small curved picks.....what a pain! Next time, I think I will take the frame off. | ||
| Rogue_biker |
PMJolly, the trick to make the rear valve cover go in easy is to lower the engine further to clear the tight areas. Trust me, when you do it goes in easy with just a bit of moving around. All you need is to lower it about 2-3 inches further. It's going to be tough to fit the gasket in with it on the cylinder head because the top of the gasket has to fit in a channel in the cover. Also, the gasket will not retain its shape unless it is fitted to the valve cover. Forget doing that! Lowering the engine further also makes it easy to access the front valve cover bolts. | ||
| Rogue_biker |
I did notice that shim availability sometimes do not match up to where you want the lash to be. So you either choose the loose side or somewhere closer to the lower limit. I think it's better to be loose than tight. This is probably why two of my valves where one step above the upper limit. I figure they will come down to the upper limit eventually. |
