| Author | Message | ||
     Bcrawf68 |
Hey everyone, Saw this on the web and thought you might discuss your experiences with it or maybe just have an informed opinion. Basically, it looks like a drop-in replacement battery. According to the maker, it only weighs 1.83 lbs. Pretty light. http://www.shoraipower.com/p-153-lfx14l1-bs12.aspx | ||
| Trojan |
We sold lightweight lithium race batteries for a while (not this make) but decided to withdraw them from our site because of some ongoing problems with them. They are a great addition to a race bike if you need to save weight/mass, but we found that the claimed cranking amps on lithium batteries are certainly not anywhere near the claims made by the manufacturers, and starting a bike from cold was difficult or impossible (not just V twins but all models). Our conclusion was that you need to get a lithium ion battery with a claimed cranking power far in excess of your stock battery to have any reliable chance of it starting from cold. Also, quality lithium race batteries normally cost around 4 or 5 times as much as the one you show advertised, so I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole  At 1.83 pound sin weight tha is also on the heavy side for a Lithium battery  | ||
| Jdugger |
The lithium batteries are excellent for race bikes. I use them on both the Buell and an Aprilia Motard I have. They weigh a LOT less. Its probably the cheapest per pound upgrade one can make on a race bike. In the cold, the trick is to hit the starter and let it roll one crank. Wait 5 seconds, do it again. THEN try to start the bike. It still won't cold-crank line a lead-acid battery, but it will start the bike. For your 1125r, you want a battery with 8 of the A123 cells. 2lbs is about right. I use a Shorai in the Motard and it works great, but I've not tried that brand with the Buell. (I use a Crabon Speed Racing one...) I more or less agree with Trojan they are a better choice for race bikes than street bikes. That said, in the Texas heat, I've found they (the good ones) hold up roughly as well as a lead-acid battery, so it's roughly just a cost/weight/benefit issue. For me, I'd not buy a lead acid battery again, but I'm not on the street, either. | ||
| Rodrob |
I run the Shorai battery in my race bike and ran it on my streetbike with 55w hid lights before that with no problems. Cold starting was/is fine even with mornings at the track in the 40's. If you want one I would suggest going through Shawn Higbee at http://www.higbee-racing.com/, who is a dealer. We are in talks with Shorai to sponsor our building an electric race bike for next years races. | ||
| Gofastalot99 |
Wouldn't the 12-cell versions be better for the street? | ||
| Kinder |
I got a 12cell one from china. It goes in tomorrow. The only thing I want to know is if they can be boosted. I keep hearing mixed results. One company was rude when I asked what if it dies like stator or left lights on etc. and basically said 'if your batt dies then something else is wrong with your bike. Our batts are for properly running bike only.' In the end I grabbed a 12cel for less than half shipped. Had they been more polite and just answered with a simple yes or no I would have dropped $$ on one with them. It was more a 'want to know' than a 'need to be able to' thing. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
I have a 8-cell in my track bike and yes on cold mornings it can have you swearing a bit...but I have never been let down by it yet. One thing about these batteries, unlike lead acid batteries, they work better as they warm up. So a few cranks as JD says (and it can take lots of cranks on our big displacement, high compression motors)and it will eventually start the bike. I assume the battery is producing more power as it warms up thru the cranking and maybe the fluids in the motor start moving a bit easier. The rest of the day is fine, as the bike fires up no problem as it's warm from the previous track session. that being said, I do carry my old lead acid battery in my tool box just in case. | ||
| Smit3833 |
I work for a lithium ion battery company. If getting cells from china, make sure you balance the cells out first. You will under discharger or overcharge a cell if they are not balanced, lithium cells are non-recoverable unlike lead acid batteries. So be warned! | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
Smit how would a person go about balancing the cells first? or if you have one could you point us to a link with instructions? | ||
| Kinder |
Mine came prepackaged ready to go with harness. I would hope it's balanced. One of the local shops here gets them from a guy who it seems gets them from the same place I did and charges them 50$ more. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I wouldn't run a lithium setup without some (external or built in) charging controller either. Which is a non trivial thing to build right. Without that, they won't last long. | ||
| Jdugger |
> Without that, they won't last long. I've heard that, too, but it's not been my experience. I have two+ years on the one on my race bike! At this point, it's just as cheap to buy another one that only lasts two years as pay for the higher end ones that have the circuits you describe. | ||
| Stirz007 |
There's a good article in RRW this month about this very subject - I think about a dozen batteries are compared.... | ||
| Smit3833 |
The individual cells need to be charged to the same specified charge voltage. That voltage depends on chemistry, I use LiFePO4 cells and we balance at 3.6volts. The easiest way to get "close enough" is to hook all the cells up in parallel then slowly charge the entire string up to its charge voltage, it wont be perfect but it will defiantly help. Our battery management system is too expensive for this type of application but there are some much cheaper balancers out there. | ||
| Littlebutquick |
I HAVE RUN A 8 CELL IN DRAG RACING LOTS OF STARTING NOT MUCH CHARGING 1ST START WHEN COLD CAN TAKE UP TO 5OR 6 GOES BUT THE MORE YOU LOAD THE BATTERY UP THE BETTER IT GETS ITS NEVER LET ME DOWN ,WHEN ITS REALLY COLD I HAVE THE BATTERY ON A 50AMP PLUG SO I REMOVE IT AND KEEP IT IN THE VAN AND WARM IT UP | ||
| Reepicheep |
Good data point! Thanks. I assume you are still running the charging system. How many starting cycles does the race bike typically see? How many hours "on the stator"? | ||
| Froggy |
And I have one that didn't even make it 2 years on a street XB. Then another guy had a Shorai explode under his seat on his Uly. Thats two more data points. | ||
| Jdugger |
> I assume you are still running the charging system. Yes. > How many starting cycles does the race bike typically see? Figure 50-60 track days a year with an average of 4-5 sessions per day. > How many hours "on the stator"? Unknown. My old race motor had hundreds -- the motor had something like 45k miles on it. I put an 09 motor in the bike and the crank broke and seized after about 10 hours on the motor. That's what caused my collar bone breaking crash back in Feb. My new race motor came in this week, and I'll be putting it in the bike. The cheap "8-cells in heatshrink" lithium batteries are all over the paddock, and mostly the reports are good on them, honestly. | ||
| Kinder |
Put my 12cel in yesterday. 3 starts no issues. Freed up so much room it's scary. Will keep an eye on voltages and report back. | ||
| Clarkjw |
This one is better http://www.skyrichbattery.com/p564/HJTZ7S-FP-S%3Cb r-/%3ELithium-Ion-Battery-YTZ7S/product_info.html | ||
| Bcrawf68 |
Smit3833: The page on the Sorai site said it was a Lithium Iron battery. How is that different from a Lithium Ion battery? Reepicheep: the Shorai page said their batteries didn't need a special charging controller like a lithium ion battery. Does this mean that the battery will fail sooner than later? Clarkjw: The link in your post points to a Skyrich page. They do sell a replacement Lithium Ion battery for the bike: Also, I was wondering, since I own a '09, does (would) it have any effect on the charging system? Not trying to start an argument here. Just hoping for more explanation before I commit money to something that might cause more problems that it fixes. One last thing, does anyone know of a larger battery company (like Yuasa) that is manufacturing a lithium battery for our bikes? (Message edited by bcrawf68 on May 22, 2011)http://www.skyrichbattery.com/Lithium-Ion-Battery/c10/p541/HJTX14L-FP-S%3Cbr-/%3ELithium-Ion-Battery-YTX14L-BS/product_info.html (Message edited by bcrawf68 on May 22, 2011) | ||
| Smit3833 |
Like the name says, the difference is in the chemistry. What this means is they will have different operational characteristics, such as voltages, lifetime, safety, and charge/discharge rates. I'm not sure what the specific differences are without doing some research. It is possible to safely operate a lithium battery pack without a management system, if you are only using the middle section of the discharge curve (never fully charging or discharging). I work on electric vehicles where every charge cycle needs to be 100% and discharge needs to safely approach 0% without damaging a single cell. |
