| Author | Message | ||
     Pmjolly |
Please don't get me started on the 2nd amendment part of this discussion. How 'bout that pig?...... OMG!?! He's holding an 'asault rifle'!!! Ugh.  | ||
| Blake |
Dang! That makes me hungry. Nothing like some fresh sausage on the grill! I need to go pig hunting here sometime soon. | ||
| Tippster |
I'm guessing Blake is of an era that thinks everything after 1970 doesn't count. Oh well. I'm not pooping on the US, I'm merely stating the obvious - basking in the glories of 50+ years ago doesn't cut it anymore and the world has moved on. The Chinese are a very real challenge to our standing in the world not because they have stealth fighters and/or a large Army - that's old-school idiocy. They have money and brain power, and we are dumbing down by the year. Regarding the US' support of the NATO action in the Balkans. From the posting history of a few here I infer that you were probably not a supporter of William Jefferson Clinton or his foreign policy. Remember Dubya's "I'm not interested in nation Building" lie was based on what happened in Bosnia and Kosovo... and we certainly didn't go it alone there. If the current US stance on social issues - especially what constitutes "marriage," equality, or reproductive rights (basically Religious conservatism in the public sphere) is backward then I cannot help you. Please know that many thinking people see very few differences between those who teach in places like Liberty University and a Madrassa in Pakistan. Zealots are zealots. Thanks for letting me vent - back to only posting Motorcycle-related content for me. (Message edited by Tippster on February 05, 2011) | ||
| Bwbhighspl |
which parts of the free world have managed just fine without America? Ask the native americans how they made out. | ||
| Court |
>>>>Ask the native americans how they made out. I can't. They won't roll the windows down on their limos here at the casino . . all I really wanted was a pack of tax free smokes . . the ones that made most of them millionaires the last 10 years. I'll ask when I can get an appointment.  I know what you mean but that's like saying P. Diddy has been held back as a result of slavery. | ||
| Tippster |
Court - you should go for a ride around Badlands National Park - 1/2 of the Pine Ridge Reservation. Beautiful place with beautiful people. Not quite Foxwoods, however. | ||
| Blake |
Ahhh an advocate of killing unborn babies and sodomy, figures. The murder of the most innocent and helpless is not a right. It's murder of the most innocent and helpless. Who speaks for their rights? Homosexual "marriage"? Here's a clue: two men, one with penis inside other man's anus is un-natural, vile, disease prone deviancy, and the "union" of such is in NO way equivalent to that of committed husband and wife, who are inherently bestowed with the ability to procreate, as opposed to the aforementioned two men, Zwith penis inserted into anus, the passage where excrement is discharged. We're "socially backwards" cause we don't recognize filthy deviant disease infested hedonistic behavior as equal to marriage? Okay. I'm good with that. Whet else you got? Nothing since the 1970? Well, we'd won the war in Vietnam, but the scumbag traitorous Democrats like Hanoi John Kerry cut all funding in support of our South Vietnam allies, thus allowing them to be over-run by communists. However we have freed Panama from Noriega, helped defeat communists in El Salvador, put down communists in Grenada, freed the people of Iraq and Afghanistan, stood by South Korea, maintained alliance for defense of Taiwan, were vital to the defeat of Soviet Marxist aggression, freeing the former Eastern Block... I'm getting tired of typing on the iPhone. There is more. Look it up. Maybe you could spare me the effort, pull your head out of your rear and go learn some honest history. Wise up! (Message edited by Blake on February 05, 2011) | ||
| Blake |
>>> I infer that you were probably not a supporter of William Jefferson Clinton or his foreign policy. I supported his policy wrt Kosovo and the Balkans. I supported welfare reform. I supported bombing Iraq and friends. I wish he'd off'd bin laden when he had the chance. You best stick to your own opinion and avoid pretending to know mine. | ||
| Kenm123t |
Blake dont waste your time read tippster's profile (DC camera man) The best rule to follow never ever talk to the Media! Dealing with them should be on Mike Rowe's list of Dirty Jobs. Media types and politicians have a symbiotic relationship Kinda like a tape worm and its host but your never really certain which one is the tape worm in its natural evirons. Funny thing is more folks here want to smack Anderson Cooper than they do in Egypt Oh and the thinking people line thats just lame. Its an old liberal arts student line when they can no longer reinforce thier arguement. Weak attempt at snobbery! | ||
| Jules |
Blake - I do wish that just occassionally you'd say "in my opinion" in your posts because that's really all they are. I understand the rhetorical nature of the questions about who managed just fine w/o America and that's cool too, in your opinion the world needed America to show us the way.. That's absolutely fine, you're perfectly entitled to that opinion... I just happen to disagree. The reason I mentioned WWII is because as a general rule that's the default "fallback" position for American's who don't actually understand/care about the rest of the world, and that's OK too... I genuinely don't mind too much if Americans in America think that everything they do is motivated by a desire to keep the world safe and that America is somehow God's chosen country.. It's nice that you guys can feel that way about the country you live in, it's good to be proud of your country. If we were in the bar together now I'd buy you a drink and we'd talk about this all night... I don't think we'd ever agree, but that's OK the world needs different viewpoints so we can make accommodations and then everyone gains something.. | ||
| Blake |
I'd enjoy that Jules. In the mean time... Jules, >>> Blake - I do wish that just occasionally you'd say "in my opinion" in your posts because that's really all they are. Pretty sure my posts include facts as well as opinion. Frankly debate absent supporting fact is useless, in my opinion. You might note that you've made up your own words for what you think I've said. What I said was simply that: I despise the blame America first rubes, gobblers of anti-American propaganda. They should choke on it. Our warfighters have been keeping the free world free for over six decades. It's not hubris. It is responsibility, valor, honor, and integrity. I should have said "helping" to keep the free world free. The facts? What nation has 30,000 troops on the border facing kooky militant N.Korea? What nation has a pact with Taiwan to help defend it against communist Chinese aggression? What nation, yes with our NATO allies, faced down the Soviets in Eastern Europe? It wasn't that long ago that Europe was a MUCH different place. Pope John Paul deserves credit for helping spur the Polish rebellion. But America and her vastness were vital to winning the cold war and facing down marxist aggression. One thing I cannot disagree more strongly with is the idea that America is no different than any other country. Ever read De Toqueville? Might be illuminating. The differences may be more blurred and less noticeable today, but compare America's defining charter documents, the Declaration of Independence and our Constitution to those of other nations and indeed, there is a palpable difference. Ask Venezuela. America's 1st and 2nd amendments are core to the differences. It's a mistake to dismiss our right to own military firearms. The Swedes agree. Freedom is never and has never been free. It must be established and defended. Jules, The period of human history where freedom has been achieved is but the blink of an eye, a mere century or two at most of human history. Failing to grasp that perspective is unfortunate. Even today, freedom is not the norm. There is no guarantee that freedom and self government will remain other than our stern vigilance and resolute opposition to those who would oppress us, islamists and marxists for instance. What has happened just 96 years ago to Armenians can happen anywhere evil and oppression go unchallenged, yes like Rwanda. >>> Everything else about your country I absolutely adore but this stuff about America keeping the world free is total bollocks, we manage fine without you thanks. "Total bullocks"? Really? That is nutty talk and just plain not true. Allies are important. I'd not make that same claim of yours towards Britain, as the UK has been instrumental in standing against tyranny and in support of freedom. Yes we do so where our interests are best served. I don't claim altruism. I do claim noble and honorable intent. You should too. By the way, I cannot disagree more strongly with your dim, caustic actually, characterization of the British Isles. I've been there and seen their beauty. Never ever badmouth your own country. You may someday find that you need it. . Besides, it's home and has made the Brits who they are, one of the most ingenious peoples and toughest bunch of warfighters ever seen. >>> If you want to respond and tell us about how you bailed us out of 2 world wars, please don't.. You were several years late for both and only pitched in when your interests were challenged. France and Holland might say the same about Britain; Poland might include France in the mix as well. Fact is that none of the allies were remotely prepared for war in 1938. The first British air attack on Germany wasn't until 1942. Back to freedom:... For instance, how many nations truly have freedom of speech and of the press? Not China, not Russia, not Denmark, not Venezuela, Cuba, not any of the 56 islamist nations, not N. Korea, not any nation ruled by dictatorship. The majority do not. Where did the modern day notion of free speech originate and become reality? Manage fine without us you say? I think not. No sense of the world being different with only a Marxist super power? Really? Another difference is that we do not have a King or Queen or any manner of ruling bloodline royalty. The notion is abhorrent to us. >>> My Dad used to say that the worst thing that would have happened to us if we'd lost WWII is that the trains would run on time and we'd have BMW company cars instead of Fords.. Given the horrific genocidal agendas and well-documented brutally inhuman murderous, even bloodthirsty behavior of both self-proclaimed "master races" leading the axis powers I find that view incredibly naive, downright dangerous, and frankly outrageous. I imagine any Jews, Chinese, Philipinos, Poles, Czechs, and other victims of axis brutality probably feel even more strongly than I. It belittles the conflict, diminishes the victory, and ignores the nature and agendas of the opposing combatants. It's just a really dumb thing to say. I'm sure Dad just meant it in lighthearted jest. It's just not something I can joke about. Remembering and accurately accounting for history is important lest we forget who we are and what may again challenge us, our noblest ideals, and most honorable principles | ||
| Blake |
PTinamou ought to move this to the quick board. | ||
| Blake |
Probably! What the? | ||
| Bwbhighspl |
Ask the native americans how they made out. This was in response to a blanket statement. I leap on those. Someone implied America is all good and has helped everyone all the time in the free world. Not true. I know what you mean but that's like saying P. Diddy has been held back as a result of slavery. If you tweak that statement, it would apply. "Africa didn't like us enslaving their people and bring them to the united states." Assuming that Africa was part of the free world at the time (or whatever that meant, at that time). Unless, of course, they did like that. (Message edited by bwbhighspl on February 05, 2011) | ||
| Jules |
LOL, this is definately something that would make for one heck of an evening in the bar.. The only bit I'd pick up on is this: By the way, I cannot disagree more strongly with your dim, caustic actually, characterization of the British Isles. I've been there and seen their beauty. Never ever badmouth your own country. You may someday find that you need it. : ). Besides, it's home and has made the Brits who they are, one of the most ingenious peoples and toughest bunch of warfighters ever seen. Just because we disagree it doesn't automatically translate to my being dim... As to the beauty of the UK, yes I am certain that for a visitor it is.. Try spending 45 years there and see if that changes your opinion (come back to me on that in 45 years!) Unfortunately right now as a visitor, foreigner, outsider (pick one at random) you don't have the right, nor the experience to make a qualified judgement on the UK as a place to live. I've been pretty careful to say my view of America is an outsider's view, I (on the whole) adore your country and the vast majority of your countrymen (not in the biblical sense you'll understand). I've been very fortunate to have worked in the USA a few times (Az and Ne) for several months at a time and to holiday in a few States too, so like you I have a reasonable idea of what the weather can be like sometimes and how beautiful it seems to my limited experiance. The UK on the other hand is my home, 45+ years of experience grants me the right to badmouth it at will.. Another small issue is that the British humour is (at its core) "Dark", so a lot of the joking/banter w.r.t our home country is just that; humour. The invention that that I am most proud of is the British sense of humour, it is (in my opinion) the best in the world. unfortunately it's also really quite difficult to explain to someone not British.. I think it has something to do with being born on and living on a "windswept sh*thole in the middle of the North Sea". You're absolutely right about it having created some ingenious and tough people.. I am (quite rightly) proud of my countrymen/women. They are as tough as nails, but caring and compassionate too. Did you know your military is still issuing those cards about what to do/not to do with Brits? | ||
| Court |
>>>>Court - you should go for a ride around Badlands National Park - 1/2 of the Pine Ridge Reservation. Done. | ||
| Pmjolly |
Wow. Long thread. Remember what it was originally about? Blake, when you and Jules hit the bar for a beer, be sure it is Miller beer. It's union made. Oh wait.....that's another discussion.  | ||
| Drawkward |
Tippster:
That's all I need to read to know that you have no understanding of the Quran, the Hadiths or the 1400 year history of Islam. You are a FOOL and those who think like you do about such things are idealist scum with no real grasp on the history of the Middle East and the spread of Islam by the sword from its inception...the only religion that has ever been initially spread that way. You are entitled to your own opinion, but don't idealistically talk about things you know nothing about. If you want to get into an argument about Islam I'm all for it. I've been studying it and its effect on the world for the past 6 years of my life. Pathetic. | ||
| Dannybuell |
Drawkward - your statement of intolerance 'you are a FOOL...'is exactly what Tippster is talking about. Liberty, Patrick Henry, and the muslim Madrassa have no history of tolerance. Academics accept the diversity of ideas, thoughts, and beliefs. Unique viewpoints are stepping stones on the path to greater knowledge. | ||
| Blake |
Jules, Re "dim": Not you, your view, meaning negative, as in a poor light. There's that common language issue. Danny, And sometimes they are just wrong, wildly out of line, and by that foolish. Contending that all religious zealots are the same as islamist terrorists is not only dead wrong but pretty darn foolish. Moral relativism is also foolish. Foolishly wrong ideas can get people killed and should not be accepted as equal to truth and wisdom. To do so is foolish. The statement was equating the nature of mass-murdering islamists to Christians in America, not asserting whether spanking is a good or harmful disciplinary tool for children. One is debatable. The other is not. So in conclusion I'd say that, your admonition has merit, but in this specific case it is out of line and foolish.  Wise up. | ||
| Jasbiz66 |
I had a bunch of stuff wrote down but I'll just leave it to this. I'm just curious if the United States is such a bad place to most people... Than why does everyone want to come to our country? If it's bad, stay out..... Buell is American made also, so does that grind your teeth every time you sit on it? | ||
| Curve_carver |
I just bought a case of Molson Canadian. I think the canadians make a better beer. (Message edited by Curve_carver on February 05, 2011) | ||
| Avalaugh |
Grass is always greener, and seriously why are most folks so opinionated. Each to there own, potato potarto.... | ||
| 13was13 |
Blake, How about some Pragmatism, that great American Tradition which puts experience first? That, for me is also what riding a Buell is about. Also this forum. The political views you express are just the opposite. You pound out moral dogmas based on a series of political half truths, as far as I can tell. They probably make people feel good, but won’t help anyone, probably cause harm. It hurts. -writing from Germany: What got me first was your remark on the impoverished physicians, with the state dictated low salary. I know one closely. He owns his airplane, a nice one, besides other toys and surely makes more than enough money. Becoming a physician still is considered one of the high roads to relative material wealth. The state doesn’t dictate the salaries of doctors. If they work in a hospital, the ownership, private, municipal or church, will negotiate. The hospital gets its money from the health insurances. They have in recent times put brakes on rising costs not least caused by taking in the East Germans. But the burden had to be shared by the insured, the tax payer and the medical professions. Guess who had to pay most. "The USA freed the Eastern Block." I was in Berlin when the wall came down. George Bush was as surprised as anyone. Ronald Reagan, in fond memory, had just done the helpful star wars stunt. But it took more than piling up Pershings against the Soviet SS20s in Germany or fighting disastrous proxy wars. Fortunately there were politicians in power in Europe and the US, who had been in WW II and wanted to made sure "that this s**t never should happen again" (to quote one). They engaged in the nitty-gritty piecemeal of establishing a sense of trust within the communist regimes through dealings of all sorts, which often was painful but enabled relief in the living conditions of the people in the East. All that created enough leeway for the people to rise once again. This time successfully. No time for ideologies. | ||
| Dannybuell |
The nine Crusades are the immortal seeds of strife shared between radicalized Christians and radicalized Muslims. In those days if Jesus wasn't on you lips you were dead. Both radicalized parties have harvested the 'moral passions' of their believers for over a 1000 years. | ||
| Jules |
I'm just curious if the United States is such a bad place to most people... Than why does everyone want to come to our country? If it's bad, stay out..... Buell is American made also, so does that grind your teeth every time you sit on it? I don't know where you got the impression that the US is such a bad place to most people? Nothing in this thread could leave anyone to jump to that conclusion. I bought my Buell partly because it's American (mainly 'cause of who designed it though). I bought my Camaro Z28, and 2 X GMC G20s because they are American too. I'm in no way bashing America or Americans, I think it's a fabulous country filled with intelligent and interesting people. Grind my teeth - yes indeed, but in a good way! | ||
| Zacks |
ok, I've been sitting by quietly and occasionally checking on this thread. It's time this gets asked: Anybody know of a motorcycle forum around here? | ||
| Dannybuell |
Zacks - I think it is called cabin fever. Washington didn't cross the Delaware on the fourth of July. just saying, ya know... :-) | ||
| Tippster |
Blake dont waste your time read tippster's profile (DC camera man) The best rule to follow never ever talk to the Media! Dealing with them should be on Mike Rowe's list of Dirty Jobs. Media types and politicians have a symbiotic relationship Kinda like a tape worm and its host but your never really certain which one is the tape worm in its natural evirons. Funny thing is more folks here want to smack Anderson Cooper than they do in Egypt Seems to me the majority of people who feel that way about the Press (to wit: the only profession specifically protected by the Constitution) are those who do not understand what the 1st Amendment really means and what it protects. Then again I see by your lack of candor in your profile that you're very worried about what people may think of you and your profession. I'm actually proud of mine and truly believe it keeps our Union more free than your closet full of guns. | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
Blake, I'm really disappointed in your anti-gay sentiments. I'm a firm believer in not legislating morality. If a person wants to do something that has no direct negative effect on others, I think that's just fine. Ride 150mph on a deserted road, drink yourself into a stupor on a regular basis, snort coke or smoke pot, or fsck other men in the ass--I don't really care. If no non-consenting parties get hurt and there is no cost to society in general, who am I or who are you to tell people what they can or can't do? How can you claim to espouse freedom as an American ideal when you clearly wish to impinge on the personal freedoms of other citizens? No, I'm not gay. I've had a fair amount of vaginal sex in my life but never butt sex, male or female. |
