| Author | Message | ||
     Rt_performance |
http://www.sportrider.com/features/146_1101_erik_b uell_interview/index.html If i read that right he can't sell any 1125r's after this month? | ||
| Fast1075 |
That's the impression I got also RT....curiouser an curiouser to paraphrase an old fable. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
I feel the same way, thats how I took it, no more 1125R derived bikes after then 21st. Maybe Court or Anony cant let us know exactly what that is all about | ||
| Budgolf |
Yeah that statement is a bit confusing. Isn't the 1190 derived from the 1125R platform? | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
It sure sounds like EB R won't be able to sell complete bikes but will be able to modify customer-supplied bikes. If that's the case, I wonder what's the reason behind it. There doesn't seem to be any apparent logical reason for Harley to want to prevent EB R from selling 1125-based bikes. If anything, I would have expected Harley to want EB R to not sell 1125-based bikes immediately after October 2009 so as not to potentially compete with dealers who still had Rs and CRs in inventory. | ||
| Budgolf |
Yeah I don't understand it. But the people that write these kind of agreements don't really want us to understand them. I'm telling you, the only reason I want that company to survive anymore is all of the good people that would be hurting because of the job loss. Besides that, screw Harley. Executives that run public companies into the ground ought to go to jail. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Read it again. He won't be able to sell "Buell motorcycles". Read the LITERAL PHRASE. "Buell motorcycles". Does NOT say he can't build and sell "motorcycles". My take on it - as a writing and journalism major looking at sentence construction (and Erik's pretty darned good with the English language too, so I doubt his wording is a coincidence) - is that he can't sell 'em under the name "Buell". And he "can't talk about" partnering with Can-Am. And when asked about partnering with Bombardier to build a new street bike he dodges and says "they're a very innovative company and we enjoy working with them" (paraphrased). heehee...I can't wait to see what's next! | ||
| Jules |
Iagree with that, especially with the statement: I have no access to the Buell name after the end of this year Erik's said that a few times before, he wont be able to sell "Buell" motorcycles but that doesn't neccessarily mean he won't be able to sell Erik Buell Racing Motorcycles. I'd still buy a "Buell" if it said "Erik Buell Racing" on the tank, hell I'd but it if it said "Erik" on the tank..... but I don't think I'd find myself saying "I'm going to take Erik out for a good thrash" too often LOL | ||
| Curve_carver |
Ratbuell I agree with you 100% Excellent way to sum it up.Erik has given bits in that article . After reading it I envision now that it wont be 2011 its looking more like 2012. I just dont see how he can get the ball rolling that quick. | ||
| Finedaddy1 |
"they're a very innovative company and we enjoy working with them" Ahh... Ratbuell, you picked that up too! (this was my favorite) When asked about working for another manufacturer he replied " I'd really want to make sure it was somewhere that I could do the INOVATIVE things I want to do". I can't wait either! | ||
| Elvis |
Here's my interpretation and summary of the numerous interviews I've seen (Keep in mind it's an interpretation, so I could be off): 1. Erik will not be able to use "Buell" and will likely be using "Erik Buell Racing" (that may depend on developments with partners) - Keep in mind, the people at Harley are idiots. They think in terms of "Marketing", not motorcycles. To them, the value of Buell is the "Brand", so it's all about the name and trademarks. 2. Erik is working on getting the rights he needs from Harley with more of a focus on technical details and less on marketing BS. They haven't given him everything he wants, but he has "work-arounds" if he can't get what he wants and, if necessary, he will create new (likely improved) parts that don't violate patents etc. 3. Erik Buell Racing WILL have a streetbike in 2011 and it will be called the 1190RS. It will be low volume production and very expensive initially. . . and it will KICK ASS. They will homologate that bike and Geoff May will race that bike in AMA Superbike. The bike will likely be available by late spring or early summer. 4. They are currently working very hard to get all the EPA, DOT etc, certifications for the bike and it will be street-legal and sold through a dealership network that Erik is building. 5. They are still looking for investors, but investment will likely only affect scale and not the basic fact that a street-bike will be coming out soon. Investors could include private investors or corporations (including companies currently making motorcycles), but a primary condition would be that Erik will need to maintain control and investors should understand, better than Harley did, what Erik Buell Racing is trying to do. I believe that some details are not yet known by anybody and others are likely known by Erik Buell Racing but not yet public, but those details are simply "details". The broad, basic facts are known and a bike will be coming out relatively soon. I don't think anything will stop that now. Other details are still fluid, but they will work themselves out and Erik is smart enough to make sure that fluid is flowing in the right direction. (Message edited by elvis on December 19, 2010) | ||
| Reepicheep |
Even if it can't say Buell, it's just Erik Buell Racing. Like Bavarian Motor Works is BMW. It'll always be a Buell to me... and my 10 year old is already trying to decide what his first street bike will be. We are torn between an M2 and an XB9S. | ||
| Elvis |
If I were Erik, I'd try to use the value of the Buell name as leverage. For example, since Harley owns the Buell name, they could use it in the future. If Erik Buell Racing is out winning WSBK races, that "Buell" name would have more value than it currently does. So I'd say: "Keep the name, but give me this patent and that patent and that patent over there . . . and I'll make sure that name retains its value for you." Then, 5 years from now, they can slap a "Buell" logo on a special edition XR1200 or V-Rod and sell it for a premium . . . sort of like how they use "Screaming Eagle". | ||
| Rt_performance |
" Then, 5 years from now, they can slap a "Buell" logo on a special edition XR1200 or V-Rod and sell it for a premium . . . sort of like how they use "Screaming Eagle"." I would literally walk in the dealer ship and piss on that bike..... | ||
| Rogue_biker |
I don't see how H-D will want to use Buell's name ever, given that they were so much against sportbikes and anything that looked like sportbikes. This is the same company that prevented Erik Buell from putting a full fairing on Firebolt or the 1125R because H-D said it would make it look too much like a sportbike! | ||
| Ratbuell |
I don't see how H-D will want to use Buell's name ever, given that they were so much against sportbikes and anything that looked like sportbikes Easy. Once Erik comes back and proves that he knows what he's doing, not only from a motorcycle perspective but from a business perspective, Harley's gonna want to cash in on the whole "we knew him when" and "we got him started" aspect. They'll just conveniently 'forget' about spending $125M to shutter his plant and fire his employees. | ||
| Jdugger |
Rat, I kinda doubt it. You are talking about people that believe sport bikes shouldn't exist. I honestly think they are both too stupid and too smug to care or understand. | ||
| Ratbuell |
True, they don't care about sportbikes. But $$$$$ ? They care. That's about ALL they care about - it certainly isn't something silly like *motorcycles*. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
So who do we write at Bombardier to support an EB designed machine? I think he would sell ALOT of 1190 based bikes look as sexy as the B2. Let's hope Bombardier is forward thinking unlike the d-bags at Harley. | ||
| Rogue_biker |
When H-D bought Buell, they saw the potential in Erik’s bikes to bring in young customers into the H-D showrooms and give H-D a place to develop better performing bikes. That was then this is now. In the interim, the market for H-D took a big rise and suddenly, they didn’t need Buell anymore. Each time Buell wanted to move away from the H-D realm, H-D would put a ring around Erik nech and pull him back in. Instead, H-D used Buell to help them develop powerful engines. I’m sure we all know where H-D got the “knowledge” to develop and make the XR1200 right? Does anybody else think the XR1200 is nothing but a numbed down Buell Lightning with fat, heavy, H-D chassis and parts? Buell had to show them how to make power from the Thunderstorm 1203 engine! Now H-D is touting the XR1200 has “their” Hi-Po model when a Lightning XB9S would probably show its taillights to that pig of a bike! Buell was the one arm of H-D that knew how to develop and build fast motorcycles, but H-D prevented Buell from ever taking flight. They always sought to limit how far Erik could go. When Wandell, the current H-D CEO, came on board H-D, his first reaction to Buell was to ask “why” it even existed. That sentiment echoed across many of H-D’s upper management and dealerships. Erik did not make any friends at H-D, on the contrary, he irritated many because he was an independent and fought for things to be done his way. H-D spent 125M to close Buell and refused to sell Buell to prove a point more than anything else. So, I don’t think H-D will NEVER use Erik’s name. Instead, they will take all that they have learned from Buell and say it was their own | ||
| Bott |
HIGHLY unlikely-and VERY improbable-but "what if" hd has decided to go Daytona Sportbike Racing ? They 'own' the 1125r now.... just sayin'... ( I really really do NOT think it is even a thought at hd- I'm just thinking of the WORST case scenario) I guess I'm saying that at this point- nothing hd does would be surprising | ||
| Milezero5 |
I think h-d will go out of business with the next 5 to 10 years. With the large array of options for comfortable bikes(i.e. vfr, concours, fjr, multistrada, etc.) the current generation will hopefully stray away from hd when they get older, and the current hd crowd will parish away. Their day will come when they need help from avoiding going out of business, and there wont be anyone willing to lend a hand. Im very excited to see what Erik Buell Racing has in store for the future. | ||
| Bott |
If I'm not mistaken, hd was just granted 'Bailout" a week or 2 ago. ?? Even though I will now never buy from them, I don't think hd ( I will NOT use capitals when referring to hd) will go under in our lifetime. Love 'em or hate 'em , they are an American icon. | ||
| Madduck |
I believe that Wadell is prepping for HD to be sold and to return a lot of cash to a group of nvestors we do not know of. the model of the high tech bubble comes to mind. Easy money on sidelines and every rich fool thinks he can run a motorcycle company. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
i dont think that HD was granted a week or two ago, it came out in the news that they were given one at one point, but have already paid it back | ||
| Tpoppa |
But I am very concerned about the customers we had at Buell, the people who bought our bikes and now go, "oh man, did I make a mistake, how am I going to be able to keep riding this thing?" I want them to be supported. A lot of that stuff is still up in the air, but hopefully we can sort that out. hmmm | ||
| Fresnobuell |
A lot of that stuff is still up in the air, but hopefully we can sort that out. "WE" can sort it out. Is that EB simply identifying himself as one of the Buell brethren or is he insinuating Erik Buell Racing might be involved in something bigger? Bombardier and Erik Buell Racing combining to support the existing owners as well as launch the new 1190 based, B-2 derivative? Hmmmm indeed.} | ||
| Curve_carver |
I think fresno is in buell land.LOL It comes down to money.No body cares about a letter showing support? You get a response from santa when you were a kid? You should write a letter to santa while your writing that letter for bombardier.lol | ||
| Rogue_biker |
He’s not in Buell Land. He’s simply taking the optimistic view. From a business/market perspective, here is my take. Erik Buell and his products have a lot of intrinsic value. Just look around here and see the enthusiasm (and frustration). When EB succeeds, Buell owners rejoice. When EB fails, we feel his pain. No other manufacturer has a figurehead and leader such as this man. His view of the motorcycling world shows in his products, good or bad, and he shows it and expresses it to every owner he has ever met. There is no committee, there is only Erik Buell and his bikes. This is what defines Buell and his motorcycles. When H-D unceremoniously pulled the plug on Buell, they didn’t just spend $125M and take away 200 American jobs, they also killed the dream of EB and his followers. This left behind a tremendous vacuum in the market. Bombardier-Rotax immediately saw this hence the offer to buy Buell. They knew that they had two assets, the Helicon engine, with tons of potential but one that has no home, and Erik Buell. It’s no secret that B-R wants to make it big in the US Powersports market. They have the Can-Am Spyder with a Rotax engine but it is an old, aging, underpowered motor. They entered the US market with a product that could differentiate them from all the other entrenched names, and all they had was the old V-Twin they designed for Aprilia many years ago. The Spyder however, is a very narrow niche market that is not enough for B-R to penetrate the market successfully. They are spending millions on advertisement but, it’s not enough. Today, that void in the market is still empty and is waiting to be filled. Triumph and BMW would really like to fill that void. So does B-R. Buell owners are not that big but they represent a significant enough market for a niche manufacturer like B-R. Triumph and BMW does NOT have a man like Erik Buell to represent them, so they are having a hard time filling this void. Over time, the void will get filled as Buell owners and their bikes age and they are forced to buy other brands. Thus, there is probably just a few years in which this window is open and the opportunity is there. Erik wants to be fill this void because he is not finished yet. He was so close to fulfilling his dream and H-D is not going to kill it! Don’t believe for a minute that B-R doesn’t want in on it either. They want in and Erik Buell and that Helicon engine are the two things that can make it happen. If I were running B-R, I would be investing all kinds of money for Erik Buell’s return and the return of Buell motorcycles. The alternative is that this vacuum in the market that is left behind by Buell Motorcycles disappears in a sea of Triumph, BMW, and H-D’s. There is still a chance this may happen. | ||
| Curve_carver |
Well said Rogue Some of us are a little more dreamier than others I guess |
