| Author | Message | ||
     Rob_l |
A day after getting back from having a great time riding in the Smokey's (960 miles in three days) trouble free it happened again on the way to work. IP went dead but for SYSTEM VOLTAGE message, turn signals in-op., same things that happened last time regulator was replaced. So I popped the seat off to check things and noticed the regulator has a big gap where it mounts to the plate on the frame. So I'm thinking this being a shunt type regulator and its function is to get rid of access voltage in the form of heat dissipated through the frame from the regulator, the only path is through the mounting ears and bolts of the regulator nothing else touches. Dealer did use heat transfer compound but with a gap in places of 1/8 of an inch its useless. So is the regulator warped? is the mounting plate on the frame warped? I don't know. I'll be truck'in it to the Dealer. You should all check your regulator mounting! | ||
| Dannybuell |
This is something new, please let us know how things unfold. THX | ||
| Rob_l |
I will point it out to the dealer and see what they do. Will let all know the out come. May take a week or two. I'll hope for the best. | ||
| 1_mike |
This is partly I put a fan above my regulator..!! Just because the regulators heat is "supposed" to travel into the subframe and the subframe is supposed to dissipate the heat... To actually "dissipate" or remove any heat, this heat has to go somewhere. The air is the normal location for this heat to go. As far as I've seen, the design of the tail of the 1125R/CR, there's little to no air flow actually around the subframe where it would do any good. Long story for why I used a small computer power supply type fan above my regulator. So far...working well. 13,7xx miles on the original stator and regulator. But...by the looks of the wires coming from my regulator...I may have done this too late. If I have to buy a new regulator, the fan will go back into place. Mike | ||
| Reepicheep |
Air is a lousy conductor of heat. An aluminum heatsink will conduct heat very well, and offers the potential of multiplying the effective surface area you have transferring heat to the air. Airflow is also important, as the rate of heat transfer (all other things being equal) is determined by the temperature difference. A bigger difference transfers heat faster, so by moving unheated air constantly over the element, you maximize the heat transfer. Not disagreeing with anyone above, just framing the science in layman's terms. | ||
| Avc8130 |
How about relocating the reg/rectifier to the bottom of the tail so it actually sees "air"? The whole subframe is pretty well encased with the tail plastics and the radiator fans and rear header pretty much fill that area with hot air. ac | ||
| Rob_l |
I like the fan idea maybe when out of warranty. Same with relocating. But you should not have to do any of that. I'm hoping that if enough bikes have the same problem then---well you know where I'm going with that, dead end. Who knows. My 09R has 5000 miles on it. My back up bike is a 04 Aprilia Tuono Factory, life is good. Thanks for your comments. | ||
| Grav3l |
Mine died again also. Went to get truck and came back to bike on its side with a bent clutch lever. That was a nice little surprise apart from the low voltage/dead bike. Part of me wanted to just leave it there. Thankfully the Aprilia Falco has my back. | ||
| Rob_l |
Mine goes into overcharge mode. Checked with meter at battery over 18 volts and alternator whining. Love the Ape. | ||
| Chameleon |
Makes sense that it's overcharging if it can't shunt the extra voltage as heat through the subframe. Mine is starting to give me trouble, too. 2008 1125R w/60,436 miles. | ||
| Daniii |
If you see 18 volts, your headlight is likely toast. | ||
| 1_mike |
Reep - I fully understand the action of what the subframe does and what the air does. This is exactly why I put a fan in place... The heat transfer to the aluminum does VERY little without the constant removal of said heat from the aluminum. Otherwise, the frame will be the same temperature as the overly hot regulator and do no good...! This is what the fan does. So far, still working with original stator and regulator (14,005 miles). Mike | ||
| Motomania425 |
I have had similar problems. The first time I got a SYSTEM VOLTAGE flash (which stayed there), I kept riding. I was headed to the coast(Pacific). That was a mistake. I was behind some traffic, putting about 30 mph and the rear tire locked up on me. I went out of control and dumped the bike. Long story, short, the bike went to the collision center(for 2 mos.), the scraped part were replaced along with a burned stator. Mechanic said regulator was fine. I've had it for 3 wks now. Last weekend I rode to work and indicator pod went blank, running lights worked, no signals and the all to common notice,"SYSTEM VOLTAGE." It's going to the dealer today. This is giving me heart burn. | ||
| Dannybuell |
Motomania425 - Are you OK? What caused the lock up? Living in Silverton you must know about that prime rib spot in Marquam. I just had the prime rib there a couple of Sunday's ago. That place was packed at 1:30 pm for one thing prime rib. We ate in the bar, they said it goes like that into the night. Another NEW thread with a similar story. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290431/597295.html?1286029093 (Message edited by dannybuell on October 02, 2010) | ||
| Hughlysses |
Has anyone looked into relocating the voltage regulator? Under the seat is a HOT location on these bikes; all the hot air from the radiators and engine is funneled under here. If you could put it somewhere in front of the engine (similar to the XB or tuber mounting arrangement) it seems like it would be kept a LOT cooler. | ||
| Dcmortalcoil |
I'm trying to relocate VR on my XB to the inner air box, the flat spot where exhaust controller sits. Just concerned about whether enough air flows if the bike is not moving. | ||
| Chameleon |
The vacuum caused by the engine breathing will move air. Not a lot, but more than none. However, my concern would be how the heat of the VR would affect the intake temperature. The ambient temperature sensor on the XB is in the airbox assembly, right? Should be able to adapt. | ||
| Chameleon |
YES. So far the results are encouraging. | ||
| Chameleon |
So it died in gear? I can see how that would cause a dangerous situation. Did pulling in the clutch have no effect? I would think that would have helped you avoid a crash. Of course, that's easy to say after-the-fact and not having been there. This account adds weight to the suggestion of filing complaints to the NHTSA complaining that this is a safety issue and must be properly addressed. | ||
| Rob_l |
Here's an update. I picked the bike up today(Saturday) after dropping it off yesterday. (how's that for service,WOW) They replaced the stater and said the regulator was fine. The gap behind the regulator they say is ok due to the fact that they looked at other new bikes still in stock and they were the same as mine. They still have ten new 1125's in stock. Time will tell. | ||
| Chameleon |
Inquiring minds want to know: where and how much? | ||
| Johnnys999 |
I just read on another site of a Buell owner with a defective stator and the dealer told him they had two other 1125CRs in service for the same thing. With all this talk and its obvious there are numerous cases of stator problems, shouldn't there be talk about a general recall? Its obvious there is a major ongoing problem and I would like to see something about it before I get stranded in the middle of nowhere or have to pay for the expensive stator after the warranty expires. I guarantee you there will be a lot more noise made about this when the owners pay out of pocket due to expired warranties. Having a warranty more or less dampens that response. I've gotten to the point I don't want to take the bike on a long trip, its like a crap shoot and I'm not very good at gambling. | ||
| Rt_performance |
Guessing he is in Lansing,Mi must be Gr Harely 7995 for cr's 8499 for r's Only question i have is why haven't we ridden together yet? LOL | ||
| Rob_l |
Yup thats the place. Grand Rapids HD in Hudsonville MI. 616-896-0111 | ||
| Bextreme04 |
I was having the save system voltage message with the voltage jumping up to 18V. I took it in to Antelope Valley HD and they put the harness upgrade on and gave me the new flash and i haven't had the problem since.... | ||
| Lrsawyer |
The regulator does not simply shunt excess current to ground. That would be extremely crude and result in excessive current. The alternator stator produces Alternating Current (AC) that goes from positive to negative and back in an endless sine wave. This must be rectified (converted) to Direct Current (DC) for your battery. The regulator performs this function. It usually doesn't need all of the voltage from the AC sine wave, so it electronically turns the rectifiers on and off (gates them). The more it clips off of the sine wave, the lower the DC voltage. This allow it to maintain the DC at the voltage it wants, charging the battery and supplying the vehicle loads. Some heat is produced in this process and needs to be dissipated, but it is not anywhere near what would be produced if it simply shorted (shunted) the current to ground. Perhaps the program the regulator uses is flawed, and a better regulator would fix it. I would imagine HD would have done this, if that were the best fix, cuz it would have been a lot easier and cheaper than what they are doing. I thought my '09 1125R had succumbed to the dreaded charging system failure, as it started running poorly and the tach was bouncing all over, along with the voltage. I shut it off and restarted it, and it seemed fine all the way home. On the next ride, I unplugged the Battery Tender, turned on the key and nothing happened. I measured 2 volts on the battery. Checked a couple things and found the battery terminal bolts had come loose. Tightened them up and it's been doing great! I would recommend checking the simple things like loose connectors and bolts more often. (Message edited by LRSawyer on October 04, 2010) | ||
| Rob_l |
Update #2 first ride after stator and same thing!!!! Within a mile. Man I'm bummed. It costs $30.00 in gas every time I truck it to dealer. And now the low beams are burned out. 18.44 volts. | ||
| 1324 |
Lrsawyer, based on my understanding, the OE voltage regulator on all 1125's is shunt, not MOSFET. This is definitely true on the XB's, as I'm in the process of retrofitting a MOSFET unit...likely this winter. | ||
| Jdugger |
> The regulator does not simply shunt excess current to ground. I've argued this before as well, based on the fact that when I took all the street equipment off my race bike, the regulator ran quite cool. "How could that be the case if it's just a shunt?" I would ask. And, I'd be cited an article about the Ninja 250 electrical system and told I was wrong -- that, in fact, the load on the stator was the same all the time. I still don't have electrical issues on my bikes. I still don't lug them around town. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Not quite Lrsawyer... Cars (alternators) vary the amount of current they produce by using a variable strength field coil. So instead of permanent magnets spinning around fixed coils, they have one set of coils spinning and another set of coils fixed. Nice, as you can then electronically vary the strength of the magnets to suit the current you need. Bad in that the spinning coils need brushes to get the current to them while they are spinning, and brushes wear. You also have a "bootstrap" problem when the system starts up, and you need current to make current. Motorcycle systems are generally simpler fixed coil and permanent magnet setups. They are simpler and lighter and more durable. So if you only need as much power as a permanent magnet setup can deliver (which is limited), that's the better choice, and that's what Buell (and Kawasaki and Suzuki and Yamaha and Honda) choose. For the regulator, you can have a shunt type regulator or an inline regulator. Shunt regulators waste current (like you said) but are simpler to design. Power = heat, and heat is what limits how much power could be regulated. Power is Volts X Amps. A shunt regulator is either off (0 amps X 14 volts = 0 watts) or shunted (100 amps X .8 Volts or 10 watts). So either way, it's not dealing with a lot of power. Inline regulators don't waste the current, but are more complicated to design. Up until MOSFETS got widely available and cheap and durable, it was tricky to build one that was affordable and durable. And they needed to be massive, consider the 15 amps at 40 volts the Buell stator puts out... if you have to drop 27 of those 40 volts at 15 amps, your regulator is trying to eat 405 watts. Smoking! The best is the most sophisticated, which is a switching regulator. They use a coil and a AC-DC conversion to step down or even step up voltage. I'm not sure why manufacturers haven't switched from shunt regulators... I wonder if there are reasons we haven't thought of (rapidly varying mechanical load on stator leading to long term durability problems, etc). |
