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Jdugger
| | Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 12:08 am: | 
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> i would gladly pay them for a fix, rather then wait for HD to figure it out.
No need to. Pay to get your stator rewound when it craps out to a higher duty spec ($200) or ride the bike in a more spirited fashion avoiding idling and low RPMs. |
Mac_inger
| | Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 05:27 pm: |
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Jd,..i Never Ever (if i can help it that is) ride below a minimum of 4500. I am at 5k or above at least 99% of the time. Trust me i ride the piss out of that bike...
Ill get the stator rewound eventually,..but im am not as mechanically inclined as some of the people here on the boards,..so im waiting for a tested and proven solution that you guys agree on and then id be more then happy to follow suit and rewind.
(Message edited by mac_inger on September 02, 2010) |
Jeepinbueller
| | Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 06:57 pm: |
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Here's what I'm curious about: I took my bike in after the charging system failed and stupidly left the E-B-R ECM in it. The techs are cool there, and just called me and said if I had the OEM ECM to bring it in or they wouldn't be able to do the warranty work. So I did and they swapped the ECMs.
Now when I get my new bits and pieces -- whenever that may be -- and I put my E-B-R ECM back in, will everything be alright? They seems to believe that the E-B-R ECM can't control the charging system properly compared to the stock computer. Does E-B-R's ECMs have the charging system upgrade flash built in? I got Erik's ECM well after the charging system upgrade was released. |
Fresnobuell
| | Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 07:02 pm: |
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They seems to believe that the E-B-R ECM can't control the charging system properly compared to the stock computer.
Per Erik Buell Racing, stator control logic is built into their ECMs. And from personal experience, there was definitely a drastic charging change after the harness installation--so something is going on. I wonder if the Erik Buell Racing logic is identical to the HD logic?} |
Dannybuell
| | Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 07:16 pm: |
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Jeepinbueller - I asked that question to M. Richter at Erik Buell Racing. I was told that they did not think so but would check it out and answer back. |
Letskeepriding
| | Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 08:58 pm: |
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I wrote Erik Buell Racing last night and had an answer in my in box this morning. From Eric Buell Racing:
Glad to hear you are getting so much enjoyment out of your 1125. Hopefully we can give you some good advice here, based on what we know, combined with what information we are getting from tech experts at H-D. It may seem to be a glut of information, but there is a much larger glut of misinformation. There are a handful of people out there who are fanning the flames, some out of ignorance, and a couple who want out of their bikes and want a financial payback. The internet at its worst can be a tidal wave of bad information and ensuing fear.
Stators failing after the harness upgrade fall into two categories:
1.Stators that would have failed with or without the harness upgrade. If the stator was subjected to enough heat prior to the harness upgrade the insulation on the wire will have already begun to degraded to the point the stator will fail. It was just a matter of time with or without the harness upgrade. In this case after the stator is replaced the customer should have no further failures
2.Stators that have not failed, but are just miss-diagnosed. Once the harness upgrade is installed, stator output is reduced during certain duty cycles. Customers and dealers are observing this reduced output and incorrectly diagnosing the stator as failed. We have seen the test results from a number of pieces returned, after being replaced as "bad", that simply were fine. So H-D is starting a big campaign to re-train dealer service personnel and send out tech tips. Without a doubt it is very late, and they have not done a good job communicating up to this point. But that is not something that needs a technical solution. Some dealers want the bikes to go away anyhow, but most will learn from the new information. There may be some failures on replacement stators, nothing is perfect, but I can guarantee the vast majority that are being replaced do not actually have a problem. See the 5th paragraph for more info.
Since about February all Erik Buell Racing 1125 race ECMs have shipped with the stator harness control strategy enabled. They will function the same as an OE ECM updated by a dealer, so if the harness upgrade is done, the ECM will recognize it. One thing to be careful of is do not let the dealer “upgrade” the cal in the Erik Buell Racing ECM. If this is done an OE cal will be written to the race ECM. Either be sure the dealer understands not to update the calibration in the ECM or install your stock ECM for this service.
Unfortunately the Erik Buell Racing ECM on its own does not affect the stator over heating situation. The heat issue in the stator is the result of the charging system reaching about 90% of peak output (and therefore 90% of peak heat generation) at such a low RPM that the amount of oil to cool the stator being delivered to this cavity is very low. Oil flow is a function of engine RPM and low engine speeds oil flow is low as well. As a result the overheating of the stator cannot be directly affected by the ECM calibration, other than working with the harness upgrade. People are noticing few failures with our race ECM, but that is most likely because the idle is a little higher, and in general the bikes are being ridden harder, which keeps them out of the idling zone.
The stator harness update enables the ECM to drop one of the three legs of the three phase alternator when the engine is at low RPM, thereby reducing the amount of heat generated. The ECM has a strategy that only does this in the RPM range that stator has trouble with and only if the battery is at a state of charge it can handled the reduced alternator output. This will indeed show low charging in that one area of rpm, but it is not an area where anyone would ride for extended period. If you leave the bike idling for a long time it will show a warning light first, then do other strategy to reduce battery draw. So leaving your bike idling for 20 minutes is not a good idea. The drop in voltage and the warning light are what people are reacting to in fear.The actual method of functionality of the system, and what the warnings mean was not communicated well up until now.
The actual evidence, not the number of posts on the internet by a few and those who they have scared but the actual failure numbers, indicates that the wiring harness update does resolve the problem. Add to the fact that we have yet to see any data showing a true failure of a returned replacement stator added new after the update, and at the moment we are not going to offer anything. If there actually is a documentable technical problem where we can truly know there are real repeat failures, there are solutions we have brainstormed and have initiated sourcing and testing work on. But we are not going to do this in a reactionary way just to the clamor. We will only offer a solution if it is truly technically needed. |
Black
| | Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 09:33 pm: |
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Thanks Baggh for forwarding the Erik Buell Racing e-mail.
(Message edited by black on September 03, 2010)
(Message edited by black on September 03, 2010) |
Eddiep
| | Posted on Friday, September 03, 2010 - 07:30 pm: |
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Letskeepriding thanks for the info from Erik Buell Racing. I've been thinking about selling my 2009 CR but after reading the tech info from Erik Buell Racing I feel a lot better about keeping it. I haven't experienced any problems with my bike before or after the harness update.
I've been reading all the posts and keep thinking it's just a matter of time. Well maybe not. This has been a really reliable machine. Yeah it gets hot on the humid upstate NY summer days but so what, they all do. This bike has a great power delivery and flat out explodes out of corners.
I ride with a few Ducati's on Sunday morning and one guy even calls it a "kit" bike. I never have any problems keeping them in site and most of the time have a lot more in reserve.
Ilove the fact that it looks like nothing else and it RIPS!
Good post. |
Dannybuell
| | Posted on Friday, September 03, 2010 - 08:27 pm: |
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Letskeepriding - THX |
Dannybuell
| | Posted on Saturday, September 04, 2010 - 05:09 pm: |
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from Letskeepriding's post attributed to correspondence from Erik Buell Racing: "..such a low RPM that the amount of oil to cool the stator being delivered to this cavity is very low... "
An external oil line coming in from cover using a jet to get behind rotor would fill the cavity up with oil quite nicely. There are two external lines passing by the darn thing, how hard would that be?
Do I sound like a broken record? |
Rogo66
| | Posted on Saturday, September 04, 2010 - 05:32 pm: |
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^ Yep... |
Ob1
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 04:01 pm: |
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Well,
I have read the Erik Buell Racing letter and I am a bit skeptical. I have had the upgrade done to my harness and I typically ride my Buell in traffic that is not bumper to bumper where a good speed can be maintained. I got stuck in bumper to bumper Houston traffic last week and my bike died due to low system voltage. I pushed the bike approximately 1/2 mile in the bumper to bumper traffic and when I could push the bike off the freeway, I stopped at a tire shop and recharged the battery to 12.0 volts. I was now able to get the engine restarted and the system voltage kept on going down as the engine was running no matter what the engine rpm was controlled at. I will call the dealer and take the bike in next week and wait I don't know how long to get it back. I hope it isn't damaged during servicing.
(Message edited by ob1 on October 13, 2010) |
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