| Author | Message | ||
     Slypiranna |
Please note that in NO way is this thread my way of advertising or for the use of market research. I will not reply to questions from members wanting to know my suppliers, the parts used, current-future availability, ect. IF and WHEN that were to ever take place, it will be handled appropriately THEN. If we can support Erik Buell Racing or other paid entities herein, then I will post credit for them. Please respect the above as I do not wish to have the administrators here displeased nor would that benefit the entire effort in moving forward. This is simply sharing of information to help continue to support ALL involved in the Buell World and obviously, the incredible motorcycle that many have come to know and love. Perhaps this also might help further instill the fact that we need more support, more parts and outsiders to assist in the goals that each may have for their personal ride. To me, it's a win win if we all share information and up front, NO BS business tactics! Or...think instead of what a lot of us know as good old fashioned HOTRODDING! We all know that this powerplant is LONG overdue for just that on the STREET SIDE! Moving on... The goal here is to build the biggest and baddest ass STREET/PUMP GAS Helicon without exceeding the mechanical design limits of the base engine OR that of any reasonably middle class owner to ponder. After inspecting the lower end with the cases split, I applaud Mr. Buell and his design team along with Rotax for such a unique and robust engine design. It was well thought out! So here we go...I've spent over a year trying to find the donor...and nailed it last week on ebay out of Lorain, Ohio! The owner thought the trans had a problem and didn't want to open it up so purchased an 09 to replace it. I got it for $900.00 including the wiring harness! The only mods he made was a slipon exhaust and a custom tune...NOT AN Erik Buell Racing TUNE/ECU...and that's all I'm saying about that for now. 16k street miles...bone stock on the inside except the 5th gear oil jet recall. Sunday night after returning...I tore her down looking for a problem and to better understand all I could about this engine. I only got an hour and a half into her prior to today...3hrs total and she's apart. Awesome design! Everything within this engine as far as hard parts go is near perfect condition! No major drama found... The heavy piston carbon deposits make me question either an underdeveloped tune and or too rich of a condition, IMO. Chambers ditto. Very minor wear on cylinder walls and piston skirts. Clutch plates probably a few burnouts away from toast but thats expected! Lol Oil pump pickup screen had only normal debris. Pistons were shipped out for profiling monday. Target bore is 106.3-106.36mm...awaiting final word back. Target CR 12.5:1 Cylinders will be bored, checked for porosity and tig filled if needed, then replated and diamond honed once custom pistons are in house. Cylinder heads will be mildly developed and stock cams will be used. Keep telling youself this is a STREET BUILD! Throttle bodies will have very minor tweeks. 09 Injectors and stock intake manifolds. Fuel pump upgrade is a question for the masters at Erik Buell Racing...when I get time I will be emailing... Cylinder head gaskets may work from the Erik Buell Racing 1190 otherwise we might have to sandwich machine the stockers. Larger primaries/full exhaust is mandatory. ECU/TUNE will be whatever Erik Buell Racing requires! Including the entire bike!  Other possible mods/adjustments to come as we progress through the final build. BTW, I'm keeping the stock final drive belt and detune ONLY if we can't make the combination live! The first wave of photos is the teardown. More to follow once goodies start coming in! Cheers! m&m http://s436.photobucket.com/albums/qq86/markel1125 /Perfecting%20The%20-X-/ | ||
| Redbuell1203 |
Okay all will say is Build it and they will come. Keep up the great work. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Sounds like an awesome project. As long as you're going this far with it, it'd be REAL interesting to know if Erik Buell Racing can supply the smaller throttle bodies, higher lift cams with "staggered" opening for the intake valves to induce swirl, and titanium intake valves planned for the Barracuda II...  | ||
| Puzzled |
I'm following this as I have a donor motor here for the same purpose. I have found the 3mm over bore fom a source other than Erik Buell Racing but nothing larger to date. | ||
| Puzzled |
Nice score on the motor. I had an offer in on it before it hit ebay. He had it on craigslist for a few pennies less. I had a feeling he was trying to get every penny out of it he could. | ||
| Froggy |
I am displeased, you need to post more pics! | ||
| Ridenusa4l |
ill be following this closely, your work always impresses me MM...im VERY excited to see the results Jake | ||
| Slypiranna |
LMAO! Good one Froggy! More photos will come once we start getting some parts in the door...it's hurry up and wait right at the moment. In the meantime, a different cylinder head is being cut and analyzed by one of the best in the pro stock automotive world. You will know him in the end...My only mandate to him was to keep our street combination simple as Erik Buell Racing already has all out CNC heads and intake manifolds for racing use. It helps to have great friends in the biz! He agreed completely after seeing the design criteria. And yes, larger Ti valves will ride in this finished 1.2Liter.  FWIW, the previous owner (of this donor engine) was banned from this website but he still is highly supportive of the brand and has a loyal customer base for his aftermarket products. We have talked for a number of hours and I have seen his work in person. Seems like a real decent fellow, IMO. On his new 1125R street engine combo, he decided to try an Erik Buell Racing Race ECU and is very satisfied now. Ride safe and I'll post more info asap! mm | ||
| Dannybuell |
Slypiranna - As a street engine are you going to focus your efforts on any part of the power band? Hughlysses - more like a street design with smaller throttlebodies? (Message edited by dannybuell on May 25, 2010) | ||
| Slypiranna |
IMO, The design of the torque band was already focused/built in by the makers...then simply shifted upwards with cam timing, extended rev range and higher pumping capability in the 1190. This isn't rocket science. I firmly believe the 1125 engine was slightly overdesigned in the beginning to handle this thread's intent without being a grenade. Please keep reminding yourself that this isn't a RACE engine. The differences in loads and design is like comparing apples to cranberries. KTM's 1190 further supports T-Body size questioning but really, this concern is literally splitting hairs for a mass production example and/or STREET engine. I would find it hard to believe anyone that rode either on the street could be 100% factual in their riding impression if just only the difference in throttle body size. Butt dynos have been proven very inaccurate! Lol Same for bigger cams. Cylinder pressure is what makes power. Bigger cam profiles shift this "trapping" of the charge higher up in the rpm band. The way you offset some of this is to raise mechanical CR. Dynamic CR is another story. Again...race stuff and not practical for a true STREET based powerplant on PUMP fuel with many variables that it must survive in. As is, the 1125 engine works very well at and below it's factory redline of 10.5k. Knowing that this new piston will weigh LESS than the stocker, I'm very comfortable going forward...EVEN if the rev limiter be slightly LOWERED! If it weren't for seeing that tach needle, I'd wager NO one could discern the difference in less than a thousand RPM at 10k? Expecially when you just jumped off an example with 75cc's less displacement! Torque will no doubt be incredible...all out HP will be limited by the stock camshaft timing and available BSFC with the stock injectors. There will be room to play but I'm not looking for an all out race package here. Realistic and Reliable will Rule in the final tuning. Have a great night! mm | ||
| Hughlysses |
Dannybuell- The article on the Barracuda 2 in Cycle World back in May mentioned that the Barracuda's engine would have had slightly smaller throttle bodies, higher lift cams with staggered opening of the two valves to induce swirl and turbulence in the incoming fuel/air mixture for improved combustion, and lighter titanium valves to allow the higher valve lift without lowering the RPM limits. The end effect of this was supposed to be improved lower RPM throttle response AND about a 10 HP gain at high RPM, the best of both worlds- just what you want for a street motorcycle. | ||
| Chevycummins |
Sly, might want to check with ebr, I think they were working on a lower cost, street 1190 kit. Keep up the good work, and lets see some pictures! | ||
| Bob_thompson |
MM, just curious but wondering what kind of piston pin retaining is used stock and what you will be using. Are the pins and pistons full floating, pressed in, or what kind of retainer is used, circlips, spirallocks, etc? When I built several HP type engines I really liked teflon buttons. Also are SS valves stock? Thanks again for all your previous input here and great luck with your project. Bob | ||
| Carbonbigfoot |
Cool. Best wishes on the buildup! R | ||
| Slypiranna |
Circlips on the stocker...spirolocs on the customs...full floating design, non bushed little end from the factory. UPDATE...to expedite proving these mods, my good friend Mike1125r will be involved with his bike! Mike recommended 12.8:1 CR on this build along with at least upgrade rod bolts and after a little research, I can't support a reason to argue! Lol, so the first of possibly many mid course corrections is done. Thanks Mike1125r! Trip to Chicago coming! I really hope we don't get carried away on this build but some of you have the gears turning! What other input do we have from the group here? | ||
| Syonyk |
This isn't rocket science. I firmly believe the 1125 engine was slightly overdesigned in the beginning to handle this thread's intent without being a grenade. From the teardown, it certainly looks like it's built stoutly. And if the 1190 was in the works during the design (which I'm sure it was), that makes sense of the removable cylinder liners & such. Are the rods rather significantly overbuilt for the motor? They look larger than I'd expect to see in a high revving motor. | ||
| Freezerburn840 |
Cool thread. Great learning experience for me of the inner workings and design. Keep posting.  | ||
| Dirty_john |
used to use the teflon buttons in my Yamaha two stokes many years ago, far better bet than circlips etc - good luck with the build | ||
| Doerman |
You might need higher capacity radiators when it is all said and done. | ||
| Fast1075 |
Pin buttons are kind of out of the question with that slipper piston design. | ||
| Mrbuell |
who is making the pistons??? | ||
| Slypiranna |
Just to make sure there isn't a wonder or misunderstanding... The bike in question from the update above is a stock belt drive production 2009 Buell 1125R. Working on throttle body mods now. These came off an under 1000mile, 2009 Domestic 1125R. Will get some pics up as soon as I can. | ||
| Mike1125r |
Looking forward to the finish product. I know sly personally and has always been a good friend and a stand up guy and from over seeing the craftsmanship and dedication of all his projects.Im confident this one will be a winner!! Street able, powerful, reliable!!! | ||
| Slypiranna |
Thank You for your kind words MM and you know I feel the same respect and appreciation for your efforts, involvement and incredible projects! While I may be considered very outspoken and cocky by many...aka, an ASS...I remain humbled by the incredible individuals that I've come to know as true friends within the dedicated Buell participation circle. You know your one of them! See you soon and please offer up more of your recommendations damn it! We need all the input we can get!  | ||
| Andros |
Respect for doing that. Then strap a supercharger to it and you're golden! =) Love the HP game... enough is never enough... | ||
| Slypiranna |
And the throttle body mods begin FIRST, here...more will follow after... I've been wanting to make this right since March 08 when we all first eliminated the noid and locked the throttles...but just haven't had the time. There's always a reason for why...so since then, I've seen a lot of folks also wanting to reduce the rotation in the throttle grip as well. Since my mobility is going south with every passing day, I could stand to twist a little less too! I believe the best/most mechanically sound/safe/$ solution lies within the link pilot point centerline location on the LH side of the REAR throttle shaft. Back then, donor t-bodies were RARE and under warranty @ near $1k if seals were broken or played with. Now that cores are coming up it's finally time to jump in. I landed this like new 09R T-body assembly, with manifolds, fuel pressure sensor, fuel lines AND 09 Injectors for $99.95 + $13.33 shipping on Ebay! Do the math. This is the third set I've acquired...I remain easily entertained or haunted by these angled orfices! WARNING-Unless you are taking this linkage apart within a contained box (glass bead cabinet comes to mind), wear safety glasses and be ready to HUNT for the parts that literally TAKE INSTANT FLIGHT away and at any given moment! This ain't for the newbie nor is any of this recommended! The spring loads are above average and extreme care must be studied on the process of disassembly/reassembly. FWIW, the rear linkage plate that is double "keyed" on the shaft is literally "extruded or seated" to an interference fit once the assembly shaft nut is torqued from the factory. Patience is an understatement in getting it off without damaging the rear throttle shaft... Also! The mechanical or static bench "balance" or "sync" will be mandatory after the playing here is done. Kill two birds with one stone. I'm going to say goodbye to the tie wrap AND wrap the linkage in less rotation from the grip in this simple mod...at least that is the hope! Lol! I didn't do the calcs prior so we'll see what a 2.25mm butterfly to link centerline reduction actually translates in rotation at the grip on another 11 that I can actually ride! This is a one shot, one kill TIG weld with zero room for error. Liquid nitrogen is used to isolate the molded plastic spring return seat/bushing. Crapberry shots just added to the photo link... http://s436.photobucket.com/albums/qq86/markel1125 /Perfecting%20The%20-X-/ | ||
| Scottorious |
this is the best thing ive seen on this board. | ||
| Slypiranna |
Good News! Linkage mod nearly exact -20%! Stock rotation reads about 80 degrees at the cable attachment point... Now @ 64-5! Difficult to read the tiny wheel numbers! Smooth as glass, with zero issues, binding, ect. Overlooked having to add another stop for WOT limits but that's baby food. I just hope this thing doesn't ride like a toggle switch two stroke dirt bike!...what am I saying, YEA I DO!!!!!!!!!! Honestly though, if the throttle is too quick...at least we have a close enough baseline now and can alter the centerline to suit on the next one. Out of time and behind on other work...will get it reassembled and swap out on the 08 runner sometime this weekend and take final photos of finished linkage! It's amazing this took over two years to get around to do but at least its finally proven. While a small mod, a victory non the less!  | ||
| Ottobotz |
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| Slypiranna |
While swapping linkage on the runner to test...another learning experience! I really feel like an idiot. The entire plastic assembly, spring, ect on the LH rear throttle body isn't required to retain! It's only purpose is for the noid return. I cannot believe I overlooked this again in my haste. Fabbing an entirely new assembly far more simplified. Since we've gone this far, might as well make the pivot point adjustable with a milled slot, along with the center lock adjustable so I don't have to add additional min max afterthought adjusters. Stock throw to -20%. Btw, it works on the bike but just a tad too touchy for my right hand. I'm sure I could get used to it but I'm thinking just a little less, say -15% might be spot on. Another lesson learned... |
