| Author | Message | ||
     Nightripper |
I just recieved in the latest master bike shoot out by cycle world and its to bad the 1125 couldn't have competed. But when you look at the test data from the latest ducati and KTM , it seems that buell would have sent one of his top race bikes to even keep up with the stock factory bikes. If you look at dyno test by sport rider on the 1125r it put out 130hp and most of the new european twins are putting out 160 + hp. So I really doubt that harley would have ever let buell even send a street legal race bike for testing. | ||
| Kirb |
The BMW is kicking ass. Media loves it and it will be the king to knock off the moutain. Expect liter class bikes to be in a real scramble in the next few years. Buell has never had much respect. They have been fairly positive reviews of the bikes over the years, but never considered on par with anyone through the Media. | ||
| Chevycummins |
The B2 with the 1190 probably would have done well. Has the looks the reviewers like with the power and handling to back it up. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Friggin amazing in the real Masterbike (European version) the 4 Japanese literbikes were rated the 4 worst of the bunch! Things have changed! Either there's a Euro-love fest going on or they are really making some kick ass bikes these days. I suppose it's a mix of both. | ||
| Nightripper |
the euro bikes have alot better suspension and brakes then the jap competition. Horse power isn't always a factor in winning races, when you have a bike pushing a 180 hp on the track you may not be able to use it. Look at the lap times for the gsxr compared to the bmw and they are only a 1 second off and there is a 20 hp advantage to the bmw. If these bikes were all set up by the factories for road racing, you might find out that the bmw is blown away by the factory prepped bikes. I think what bmw has done is to come up with a high hp engine that isn't capable of using that much hp on a track or in the real world. May be at the drag strip or salt flats the extra hp would be really usable | ||
| Fresnobuell |
It's been recently stated the war is not over HP anymore, it's about making the HP usable now...ie electronics. It seems that is where the Euros are beating the Japanese. | ||
| Kevin_stevens |
The BMW was 1.5 seconds faster than the next fastest bike. All but one of the other bikes were within 1.5 seconds of each other. The Yamaha sucked. You can argue about whether it's the horsepower or the electronics, but that's as clear and definite a result as you're going to get on a race track. As for the "Euro-love fest" comment, those are international journalists from the largest publications, including US, under strictly objective lap time measurement. Unless you're hinting that they deliberately rode slower on the non-Euro bikes to influence the result, there's not much basis for any such assertion. I have the BMW and my 1125CR. I like them both very much. The Buell is not faster under any competitive condition other than maybe low speed top-gear rollons. KeS | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Sorry Kevin, I didn't have the article memorized as you obviously do. DOn't get those pages too sitcky now bro! From my memory that are some subjective areas of the test, correct? It's pretty well known the "largest publications" cream over the Euro-brands like none other. It don't think that's disputable and that was the point I was trying to make. The race-track performance is undeniable of the Beemer, but for you or me what does that really mean? It's only going to matter at the limits of the envelope. As for the real world, yes you have a 180HP bike. Congratulations, but I bet there are lots of guys on 1125rs who will hand you your lunch on the track. | ||
| Kevin_stevens |
No, there are no subjective areas of the MasterBike test. Feel free to continue wild speculation. The topic of the thread was how the 1125R would have done in that competition. That's what I was responding to. KeS (Message edited by kevin_stevens on May 21, 2010) | ||
| Fresnobuell |
The 1125r would have done poorly in the Masterbike competition and that's due to the expert riders getting those last few ounces out of the best production sportbikes on the planet. The 1125r simply isn't in the same class with EXPERT riders aboard. Now if you had your average sportbike riders doing the shootout, I think the 1125r would fair much differently. I truely believe the R is one of the easiest bikes to ride fast for an average motorcyclist. | ||
| Xnoahx |
The 1125 would have been destroyed by those bikes but would probably do well for handling ratings | ||
| Reepicheep |
Wrong question... I'd be more interested in hearing how the turbo 1350 XB would have done (diablo?) and how the Baracuda II would have done. Of course that would have required an antidote for CHRC (chronic Harley rectal-craniotosis). | ||
| Fresnobuell |
I think the B2 would have been right there with the Twins in the shootout--Rc-8 and Duc, however it would have been bagged for some reason (not being from Europe?) | ||
| Ratsmc |
IMO, the Aprilia and the Beemer are in a different class just based on price. I probably could have guessed the results without the article just by looking at the MSRP for each bike. And remarkably enough, the bike's price lines up perfectly with the results. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
I haven't seen the Cycleworld shootout, did the Aprilia win? | ||
| Ratsmc |
Masterbike was covered by Cycleworld. The BMW won. Aprilia 2nd. | ||
| Kevin_stevens |
MSRP for the Aprilia is $16K for the non-Factory version. MSRP for a 2010 Honda CBR1K base is $13.4 MSRP for a 2010 BMW S1K base is $13.8 MSRP for a 2010 Honda CBR1K w/ABS is $14.4 MSRP for a 2010 BMW S1K w/ABS is $14.8 Full racing traction for the BMW is a $500 option, not available on the other two. Quick shifter on the BMW is a $450 option, not available on the other two. Not sure what "different class based on price" means in that context. KeS (Message edited by kevin_stevens on May 21, 2010) | ||
| Ratgin |
BMW S1RR in Canada is priced very well. 2010 S1000RR $17,300 vs last years pricing on 2009 1125R $15,xxx I'd call that very good pricing by BMW | ||
| Dannybuell |
Reepicheep - YES to Barracuda, 1125RR, 1190RR... Ratgin - In 2009 we all know where the best prices were. Throw $10,000 at E-B-R for parts and see what happens to your 1125. | ||
| Jdugger |
If the Euro's recent dive extends, it's entirely reasonable to ponder the BMW at price parity with the Japanese... | ||
| Redduck124 |
Of course, I could subtract the price I paid for my 1125r from the price of the Aprilia, add that much money in aftermarket mods to the suspension and motor of the Buell, and blow it (and all the others) away. So yea, head to head it's no match, but I could buy my bike and a good, used Ducati Hypermotard for the price of the Aprilia. I'll take that trade off any day unless I'm on the racetrack. | ||
| Ratsmc |
Kevin_stevens, MSRP is not the price as tested. The BMW they tested included TC and ABS as well as the quick-shifter. The CBR did not have CABS and was the base model. | ||
| Kevin_stevens |
:shrug: I don't know what you're talking about, then. The June Cycle World "Running of the Bulls" article on the Master Bike competition, which is the topic at hand, does not list prices. I gave the 2010 US list prices. The Aprilia Factory, the MV Agusta, the 1198S Corsa would all be more expensive than the BMW, and the RC-8 must be close if not more. So your comment that the Aprilia and BMW are in "a different class pricewise" doesn't make any sense. And "the bike's price lines up perfectly with the results" is just... wrong. Whatever your point is, it needs correction or explication. KeS (Message edited by kevin_stevens on May 23, 2010) | ||
| Xnoahx |
Any way you slice it the BMW and the RSV are amazing machines that are top level performers right out of the box. If It were my money I would probably take the BMW but that V4 would be very tempting | ||
| Jaimec |
The Bikes lined up according to price? The BMW was hardly the most expensive bike in the test. Look again. Although the Beemer isn't doing as well in WSBK (where the other manufacturers can tune their engines to be on par with the S1000RR), it IS cleaning house in Superstock, where the modifications allowable are far more restrictive than they are in Superbike. I love my 1125R, but no WAY would it run with this group of bikes. I would tend to think that a less experienced rider would actually find the S1000RR the easiest bike to push fast because the electronics would do everything possible to keep the rider from doing something stupid. The B2 would be a whole 'nother story, and unfortunately one we'll never get to hear. | ||
| Ratsmc |
Actually, I forgot that the RC-8 and MV were in there. That is probably partly due to the fact that those two bikes are sort of specialty bike and will never perform at the level of top production bikes. Similar to an 1125. So, I will correct: removing the boutique bikes, the results line up according to price. | ||
| Xnoahx |
removing the things that contradict what was said makes it true  | ||
| Ratsmc |
Fine, if thinking of it that way makes you feel better. The fact is, neither the MV nor the RC-8 belong in that test - just like the 1125 doesn't belong in that test. The fact that I forgot they were a part of it is a function of the fact that they are a different animal. | ||
| Kevin_stevens |
Pardon the injection of reality: Best Lap Results Best Lap MSRP BMW S1000RR 1:59.927 $15,730 Ducati 1198S Corse 2:01.542 $24,995 Kawasaki ZX-10R 2:01:570 $12,999 KTM RC-8R 2:01.620 $16,498 Suzuki GSX-R1000 2:01.841 $12,899 (2009) Aprila RSV4 Factory 2:01.943 $20,999 MV Agusta F4 2:01.944 $24,995 Honda CBR1000RR 2:02.156 $13,399 Yamaha R1 2:04.073 $13,290 If you predicted the outcome from the prices, you'd be... totally and completely wrong. With or without the selective exclusion of the KTM and MV.  And MV doesn't compete against Ducati??? *They'd* sure say they do. How is MV more "boutique" than Aprilia?!? KTM doesn't compete against them? They might not pick on the Corse, but absolutely they would. And gee, look where they fall - midpack, midprice. KeS (Message edited by kevin_stevens on May 23, 2010) | ||
| Ratsmc |
Ahh, selective presentation of data. Now, arrange them by the actual scores they received rather than just one of the categories. 1. BMW S1000RR $15,730 2. Aprila RSV4 Factory $20,999 3. MV Agusta F4 $24,995 4. KTM RC-8R $16,498 5. Ducati 1198S Corse $24,995 6. Honda CBR1000RR $13,399 7. Suzuki GSX-R1000 $12,899 (2009) 8. Kawasaki ZX-10R $12,999 9. Yamaha R1 $13,290 You are arguing over a minor point that I have already modified. The primary point I was making was that the price of performance bikes just went through the roof. Yes, the BMW is cheaper than some of the bikes it beat but it is still more expensive than any of the Japanese bikes by a good margin and you can state that without any quibbling that the most expensive bikes won. MV is far more of a boutique than Aprilia. It may be hard for us to see over here in the US but Aprilia sells a huge number of scooters and smaller bikes. That we can't buy them here in the US doesn't alter the fast that they are a much larger company than MV. (Message edited by RatsMC on May 23, 2010) |
