| Author | Message | ||
     Trafford |
Thought I would start something to think about. I have Twinmotorcycles TorqueHammer Exhaust and ECM. I also have an EBR ECM. My experience is that the sensation of power is very small because the torque is so linear that there is no real powerband feel. It pulls strong from low down. I read on the forums of guys describing how their bike has had a new exhaust or a jardine tuepro/PC5/piggyback etc etc and now the power comes in so strong at 5000/7000/ etc etc But is this showing an increase in power or the perception of power because the engine does not have flat curves?? I used to drag race years ago and a great topend was not very useful on the track. Also the infamous Kawasaki Triples from 350 up were notorious for brutal sudden power but horrible to ride compared to a z650/z900/1000. Wide powerbands feel ordinary but produce results (as LittlebutQuick) Peaky powerbands are exciting addictive and are not always the quickest in reality. | ||
| Pittsburgh_guy |
I'll comment here as I was one of those who posted something to this extent. Previous the Protune, my 1125R used to stutter from ~4500-6500 and really hit a max power around 7500-8500. When I first had the pro tune, I noticed an immediate difference in the 4500-6500 area, which I still ended up adding some more fuel in that area. Also, now I have the EBR ECM with the Protune. From the moment I installed it(EBR ECM), my bike liked it better. As others have commented, it just makes all the difference. | ||
| Syonyk |
That's very true. Honda's VTEC engagement point is typically much higher RPM-wise than it should be for this reason. You get the "VTEC ENGAGED, YO!" kick in the pants feeling. However, most people who are serious about racing/performance install a device to lower the VTEC activation RPM so the system engages when the RPM curves (VTEC on/off) cross. This gives the most power, and the best performance, but doesn't give the "kick in the pants" feeling people like. So, yes, it's very possible for a smooth powerband to feel much slower than a peaky, "exciting" top end powerband. | ||
| Mountainstorm |
I think something like that happens when you have the inner airbox cover off. The bike seems to have a bigger kick in the pants at 6-7K. Maybe not any overall gain but a little sumthin sumthin when the intake harmonics are in their sweet spot. | ||
| Trafford |
Yes Mountainstorm....it was that type of topic that made me start the thread. Thanks to all you guys for your comments. | ||
| Jaimec |
My first two bikes (way back in 1982) was a Yamaha XJ550RJ SECA, and the XJ650RJ SECA. The 550 had an UNBELIEVABLE "hit" at 6,000 rpm. While I was breaking it in (keeping it below 4,000 rpm) I thought it was a nice, easy to ride bike for a beginner like me. After break-in, I was on the parkway behind a slow-moving pickup truck (which, at the time, had no business being on the parkway, but I digress). I clicked it down a couple of gears, changed lanes and whacked the throttle open. The revs climbed as I started passing the truck. All of a sudden I got this sensation of being rear-ended. I got thrust back on the saddle and found myself trying to pull myself back into my original position. The front wheel was threatening to lift up off the road surface. Most incredible experience of my life. I got broadsided by an idiot pulling out of his driveway right into me about a month later. Learned that for $1,000 LESS than repairing the 550, I could have a BRAND NEW XJ650RJ. The bike was definitely more powerful throughout the rev range, and had a higher top end as well... but the powerband was smooth and flat and never gave the same "sensation of speed" that the 550 had. The 650 was a much better bike all around, but I sure missed that 550... | ||
| Ccryder |
Just like the 1st years of DDFI with the tubers. There was a flat spot around 4,000-5,000 rpm (EPA noise range). When you installed the "Race ECM", the flat spot went away. Many claimed the Race ECM was no good and it reduced power. Actually it was that perception of power that was changed. Instead of having the droop in power and subsequent pickup of power it was all very linear. It pulled consistantly. Time2Work Neil S. | ||
| Trafford |
My brother has the same 1125R as me but standard. I live in Holland and I went to the UK at Easter. We rode out together. When we swapped bikes it was obvious that he was 'not too impressed' with my bike as his 'kicks' in with the power more than mine. I have the Torquehammer erxhaust and matched ECM (Message edited by trafford on April 21, 2010) | ||
| Milleniumx1 |
I'm 100% with the general tone of smooth power consistently applied across the entire powerband is ultimately faster than any 'wow' event in the middle. Most of my race experience came in cars, and track times alone will show that a nicely tuned correctly-sized carb will outperform a thumper model. FI beats them both. Same with forced induction ... Get it early on and linear, and it's faster than being smacked into the seat at the mid-range. Admittedly, I've been a nitrous guy since the mid 80's, but rarely had the $$ to build one that could handle it from launch, but feels great at the 3K activation point! The very first time I rode my 1125R, it hit me ... Done right! Sure I have fond memories of turning my air cleaner lid upside down on my over-sized Quadrajets and Holley double pumpers back in the day, but I've since stopped believing it was faster that way. Louder yes, faster no. Mike | ||
| Trafford |
Well put Mike......I guess some of us have been around long enough to have 'Seen that....done that...'I have 42 years on bikes and loved it all and still loving it!! But power is often illusory. The thing that makes the 1125 so special is the 7500 rpm 'powerband' | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Good point. I know that very point was made about the 1098 when it first arrived. There was a big dip at about 5,000RPM--then it took off. It did give the perception the upper rev range was stronger than it really was. Some motojornalists were smart enough to figure it out when test riding the R. That point being the Rs flat linear torque didn't give the rush of power up top, but that's because the motor is pulling hard everywhere. I will give the nod to the stock pipe/ecm down low but I am convinced the EBR ECM is pulling harder from the top of the midrange to redline. Not great for the street, but perfect for track application. I also feel the throttle response is much improved, there is less engine braking and decel popping with the EBR ECM. It plain works. | ||
| Dirty_john |
Must agree with Fresnobuell - the race ECM has far better throttle response and the modded IAC settings to reduce the engine braking is a good idea in my opinion. | ||
| Trafford |
I have had my EBR ECM for a month now but still have not got around to fitting it. Guess I better try it out this weekend. | ||
| Ccryder |
FWIW I heard that all 1098's that went to the moto-journalist had the "race ECM" since the driveability sucked BIG TIME as stock. | ||
| Trafford |
Easyrider's stuff is so good I can't imagine the EBR ECM matching my Torquhammer as well as his. But I am curious after hearing so much about the EBR one. Hence my investment in the test. If I am not satisfied I will have an EBR ECM 1200 rpm Idle for sale. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
FWIW I heard that all 1098's that went to the moto-journalist had the "race ECM" since the driveability sucked BIG TIME as stock. Ducati is good at cheating. Too bad the mags don't call them out on it more. Buell unfortunately was on the opposite end of the spectrum with the R release. | ||
| Jules |
Trafford - do you have a sidestand switch on your R? If so did you tell EBR about it as the Race ECU uses the pinouts from that location... I might be interested if you do decide to sell.. | ||
| Jaimec |
Not just Ducati. As far as I'm concerned, Harley gets a free pass for a LOT of things they'd slam the other manufacturers over. Case in point: Their turn signal switches. Really not much difference between the Harley switches and the BMW switches... yet every time the magazines reviewed a Beemer they'd bitch about the switches, and yet they'd never mention a THING about the Harley switches. BMW must've gotten tired of hearing all the bitching and whining because the new K bikes and the S1000RR have traditional (Japanese type) turn signal switches. I still prefer the paddle switches on my K1200LT. | ||
| Dirty_john |
My EBR race ECM has the sidestand enabled, when ordering the ECM a request was made to EBR to keep it functional. | ||
| Trafford |
Jules.....They were supposed to activate the sidestand switch but forgot!! Michael at EBR said I could send it back but the shipping and possible duty payments on its return to me put me off so it is set for 1200rpm but the switch is not active. | ||
| Trafford |
I will not have time to test it this weekend or next.........Will post results at first opportunity in a couple of weeks....... | ||
| Kicka666 |
The 1125 has a linear power full stop, mine just pulls like a MF & no powerband like all the riceys Ive ever owned. If I wanted a powerband I would buy another RG500.. | ||
| Kicka666 |
Syonyk, all the VTEC does @ RPM is open up 4 valves instead of 2 per cylinder. The latest gen VTEC VFR's were junk, not like the old gen2/3. They shat all over the VTEC rubbish. If I have 4 valves per cylinder I want them open & closed @ all times not & a certain RPM. Just my 2 cents. | ||
| Jules |
Trafford - OK it'll be interesting to know what happens as I think they moved the ignition interrupt (for the quickshift) to the sidestand pins after having issues with the BAS on some of the earlier units.. I'm not sure what will happen if you have a sidestand cct in place I suppose it's possible there is the potential for random ignition cuttout (as per the first units) but I guess in theory it might also not run at all with the sidestand up/down TBH I've no idea what will happen but will be interested to hear back  | ||
| Trafford |
Jules....I put the EBR ECM on in the garage a few weeks back and started the bike. This is how I know the sidestand switch is no longer working. It ran fine but the fans came on real fast compared with my Twinmotorcycles ECM. I took it off and have not yet actually ridden with it yet. |
