| Author | Message | ||
     Torquaholic |
Symptom: headlight fuse pops every time i turn the key to "on". This keeps the bike from starting. I uncovered the starter solenoid and slapped a wrench across the terminals, the bike starts right up. For that reason alone, i don't think this fuse issue is related to battery charge state. How could it? Please feel free to educate me if the battery charge could cause that fuse to pop. My conclusion is that there's a short in the headlight wiring. I started pulling off the plastics today but won't get to dig deeper till Saturday. I'm thinking I will just have to uncover the wires related to that circuit and look for any frayed wires, clean off the ground points and make sure they're tight and hope that does the trick. Anyone in this situation before have any tips? Any places in the bike to focus on? Thanks. --kevin | ||
| Tibman260 |
Torque, Here is how the headlight circuit is laid out: Power from the headlight fuse runs straight to the starter relay. The starter relay switches the lighting fuse power away from the headlights during cranking. The circuit path for the headlights goes from the starter relay and splices off to two paths. One goes directly to the low beams and the other goes to the left hand controls to control the high beam. When the high beam switch is switched, power then runs through the left hand controls and into the high beams. Take note that the low beams stay on when the high beams are switched on. So, if you are experiencing the light fuse blowing only when the bike is on and not cranking then most likely there is a short between the starter relay and headlights, possibly after the left hand controls if its on the high beam circuit. I would start off by checking a short to ground through the headlight connector. With the headlight fuse pulled, disconnect it and check continuity between pin 3 (blue wire, low beam) and a ground point on the bike (frame, bolt head, etc but make sure its a good ground path back to the negative battery terminal). If you don't find it there, try again on pin 2 (white wire, high beam, remember to flip the high beam switch on and off to see if it is before or after the switch). If that doesn't find it report back and we'll see where we can go from there. | ||
| Torquaholic |
thanks for the detailed reply! i'll see what i can come up with and get back to you. | ||
| Therealassmikeg |
Excellent diagnostic path and description Dave, The only thing I'll add is to pull the start relay first and see if the short is still there. If it's still shorted, look between the fuse block and the relay. If it's not shorted the problem is on the other side of the circuit between the relay,controls and headlamp. Cheers Mike G | ||
| Torquaholic |
Mike, You said, "pull the start relay first and see if the short is still there" is there some way to test the relay itself? ...or do you mean to test continuity between any of the plugs in the relay and the battery ground? ...to test between the fuse block and relay body, is it a matter of placing the multimeter on continuity and just stabbing a pin in the fuse block and the other in the relay block, or would i still place one pin on a ground point and the other in the fuse location? I'm not the greatest at electrical gremlins. I appreciate both of you guys helping out, really. --Kevin | ||
| Tibman260 |
Good call Mike. Kevin I believe what he is getting at is to unplug the relay from the relay box and then see if the fuse blows. That way you know if the short is before or after the relay. It is pretty unlucky to be the relay itself. The relay's contacts are very durable and even if there was a short on the coil, the coil's power is on a different circuit than the lights. P.S. The relays are on the right side of the bike in the tailsection. You will have to remove the rear fairing and possibly the battery then unclip the relay block from its holding tab. It's a bit tedious to get out. | ||
| Ccryder |
Kevin: Have you done anything to the bike in the last few days or weeks? IIRC someone had similar issues and it was due to a grounding issue at the left hand control group shorting to the handlebar. Quick way to troubleshoot is to pull the screws that hold the controls around the bar and slip them off. Some have had this issue after installing grip heaters, or just new grips and one other had this issue w/o doing anything. Later Neil S. | ||
| Therealassmikeg |
First let me ask you, did you install any accessories on the headlamp circuit. HID lamps possibly? If so look at install or accessory for fault first. Next, Relays typically don't short internally. I've never seen that. The reason I suggest pulling the start relay is to find out which side of the relay the short is on. the start relay should be the only black relay in the relay block (according to the etm) If you pull the relay and still have a short after replacing the fuse your harness is shorted between the fuse box and relay block. To answer your question on how to check a wire for a short to ground I will give you two sets of instructions. 1)If you determine the short to be between the fuse and relay: remove relay and fuse, then with you ohm meter, check for resistance to ground from "either" the relay or fuse side (blue wire to ground). make sure you don't try to check resistance from the +12v side of the fuse. 2)If you determine the short to be after the relay, I would suggest starting by disconnecting the headlamps first, reinstall the relay and fuse and turn the key on. if the short is gone you've found the problem in the headlamp. If not, then disconnect the l/s (headlamp) control plug located under the flyscreen or fairing (it's the 8 pin connector with a blue wire in it). If short is gone you've found the problem to be in the l/s switch assembly. If you're still shorted, test the blue wire for resistance to ground with headlamp and l/s controls remove from the circuit along with removing the start relay trace the short in harness as necessary, or bring it to the dealer and let them deal with it. Cheers Mike G | ||
| Torquaholic |
I haven't installed any electrical accessories at all, so that's not my problem. I did, however, replace the clutch mount bracket tab with a PMR kill switch, modified to fit the offset bolt hole design of the Buell pieces. I haven't wired it up yet, but it might be possible that in installation, i bumped the left hand control group's wires enough to cause a short up there. If that was the case, I don't see how my bike would have run on the track day on Presidents day (some of you may have seen the footage I posted last week). The bike ran great at Texas World; i rode it home and parked it in the garage. Came out to see about finishing up the kill switch wiring a few days ago and the bike wouldn't start. I pulled the seat and noticed the blown headlight fuse. Replaced it and it blew again when turning the key to the "on" position. I'll check the simple things first, like pulling the left hand controls off and pulling the relay to see if the fuse pops. I've got about 6 more fuses to blow before needing to make another run to the store. Thanks for all your help, really. I hope I can get this figured out quick and simple. --Kevin | ||
| Ccryder |
THose switch groups sometimes don't seat all the way on the bar each time and can leave a little gap. If you bump it or play with something close they can finally seat and........... say hello to Mr. Shorts. Cross your fingers. Neil S. | ||
| Torquaholic |
Well gents, had some fun this morning, tracing a ton of wires... making a list of everything i checked. pulled the starter relay and no fuse pop. replaced the relay and pulled the left hand control, fuse popped... checked the relay to fuse box, fuse box to headlight connector, internal left hand control individual wires to the headlight connector, etc... you get the idea. Eventually, everything seemed like it should work. With the headlight connector unplugged, everything else in place - the bike started! Took a closer look at the headlight group, all the wires looked fine, but one of the low beam bulbs was fried! Why didn't i see that before going through all that hassle?!? That's got to be the culprit, as the fried filament looked like it was crossing the terminals and probably causing the short. Either way, just placed an order for the DDM HID kit. Figure why not, since i need to replace a bulb. i may go look for a cheapy bulb just to test my theory, but im pretty sure that'll do the trick. Thanks again for all the help. I really appreciate it. (Message edited by torquaholic on February 27, 2010) | ||
| Tibman260 |
Torque, save yourself the cash and swap out one of the bulbs from the other three lights. Glad to hear you figured things out! | ||
| Therealassmikeg |
2)If you determine the short to be after the relay, I would suggest starting by disconnecting the headlamps first, reinstall the relay and fuse and turn the key on. if the short is gone you've found the problem in the headlamp. What did I suggest to do next??? Glad you found it and you really didn't spend too much time either, Congratulations!!! |
