| Author | Message | ||
     Sportbikermed |
Mike, I appreciate the test. Not sure if I will go that route or used 2 K&Ns. Either way it's good info. | ||
| Vtwinbuell |
Moosestang, Good catch on the part number typo it is RD-6020, the link is correct. If noise is a big concern then you may need to figure out a way to dampen the sound a little. The cone filters will about double the noise level change of going to no inner air box cover. Cruising it is barely noticeable, but when you hit the throttle it sounds mean. I only had the chance to ride about 20 miles with the cone filters before the snow. My AFV did adjust from 100/100 to 105/100. Considering it would be pulling in warmer air than the temp sensor says I assume that this means it is getting more volume to require more fuel. The bike did appear to have more power at lower rpms, the front end came up about 1k lower. The bike also appears to run better under 4k, I only run it there in the neighborhood though. I put a couple breather filters on the IAC tube and breather tube. I did get an IAC error initially and it idled like crap at first. After a few minutes I think the bike turned off the IAC adjustment and it runs fine now. The base of the air box is what the rear of the outer air box is screwed to, so right now my air box just rests under the seat on the back. I will have to fix that sometime. | ||
| Poppinsexz |
Could you just run some tape around the edges of the filter once it's installed in the bike? I haven't looked at mine to see if it's possible. | ||
| Therealassmikeg |
Yeah, I'm kind of slacking off today. Engine is almost out and rtv is still not fully cured. I'll finish this just to find out. Besides no one asked me to do this... Some of these bikes are already out of warranty. I guess it's best to figure this stuff out now for future reference.... | ||
| Moosestang |
vtwin, did you consider cutting the air box base plate? I assume the filters won't fit inside the air box as is. I'm planning to add the breathers and keep the base plate, so I can reattach the airbox cover and also add some heat insulation to the bottom, around the throttle bodies. My filters should be here on Monday. Did the idle speed change? (Message edited by moosestang on February 18, 2010) | ||
| Vtwinbuell |
Moose I was planning on making a new base out of abs or lexan to block off some of the heat, but I will need to modify the outer air box to let some cool air in. Modifying the stock air box would work, I should look for a used one. If you use the original air box you could probably seal it up with some silicone. I didn't notice any change in the idle speed. I just checked and the IAC appears to still be working, I put my hand around the IAC filter and the RPMs increased a little. Keep me informed on your solution. | ||
| Therealassmikeg |
The RTV set for approx 8hrs. After some pulling, peeling, and a little finesse, the silicone was only release agent to pull off clean. The RTV produced a nice form for fitting to the filter seal and I would suspect this could be a viable repair for those of you with dirt ingress problems through the air filter seal. YMMV Sacrificial filter, may you rest in pieces...      | ||
| Sportbikermed |
Great test mike. Thanks for posting those results. There will probably be plenty folks investing in some sensor safe silicone now. | ||
| Captain_america |
Mike, That is some good knowledge you have given us at your expense... THANKS!!!! | ||
| Therealassmikeg |
No problem guys. The silicone spray I used was a Zep product, not the Loctite mold release in the picture, any silicone spray should work. Permatex makes an aerosol container similar to a cheese whiz can in a 3oz size, more than enough to do one filter http://www.permatex.com/products/motorcycle/motorc ycle_gasketing/motorcycle_gasket_makers/motorcycle _Permatex_the_Right_Stuff_1_Minute_Gasket.htm Moosetang, I too like to see your solution Good stuff! | ||
| Moosestang |
I should have some pictures up on Tuesday. I'm not going to hack up the air box until i'm sure it will idle correctly. I'll be getting it dyno tuned within the next 2 weeks using a PC-V. If it's possible, I'm going to keep the stock airbox and just cut where needed. | ||
| Moosestang |
Well Vtwin wasn't exaggerating about the filters pushing together at the top. They were hard to get on there and had to be pushed on at the same time. I emailed K&N asking if they can make it with an angled flange, but i'm not holding my breath. Here's a few pics. the airbox is definitely not going to work without cutting the humps. Not sure i'm willing to cut it just yet. I'll ride the bike without the airbox and see how it runs.    | ||
| Moosestang |
I took it for a ride. I must say it sounds great without the airbox. I was expecting a lot of valve noise or metallic noise, but it sounds deep and roars when you give it throttle. If I can find a way to keep it from sucking in hot air, then i may keep it this way. It also idled fine, no codes. I got the impression that I had more power down low and it wheelied easier shifting into 2nd. In 3rd it felt a bit weaker up top, but all this could be my imagination. (Message edited by moosestang on February 23, 2010) | ||
| Captain_america |
Seeeeeee! The bike sounds angry when you give it throttle.... It's too bad the rider is the only one that can hear it. I love it. | ||
| Vtwinbuell |
I took it for a ride. I must say it sounds great without the airbox. I was expecting a lot of valve noise or metallic noise, but it sounds deep and roars when you give it throttle. If I can find a way to keep it from sucking in hot air, then i may keep it this way. It also idled fine, no codes. I got the impression that I had more power down low and it wheelied easier shifting into 2nd. In 3rd it felt a bit weaker up top, but all this could be my imagination. Now I don't feel like my experience was so biased by my ears. Did you happen to check your AFVs before and after? | ||
| Moosestang |
AFV didn't change, but I only rode it for 10 miles. I'll try to take it out Thursday for a real ride. My AFV is 105/105. It was 105/110.5, but I changed the rear back to 105 using ecmspy. It doesn't feel as smooth with the rear at 110.5. Still debating if I want to add the power commander and dyno it this way or with airbox. I don't like how tight the filters fit, wish they were angled at the bottom. | ||
| Moosestang |
Oh, I like being able to put my ear up to the breather I have on the IAC tube. It's like being inside the engine. For a motor that sounds so rackety when standing next to it, it has a completely different sound when you press your ear to it.  (Message edited by moosestang on February 23, 2010) | ||
| Blackflash |
I believe this is a bad way to cure the dirt issues.Sure it looks great and sounds mean im sure.You will be sucking hot air off the motor.That is not good.Your iat sensor should have air passing by it.That was the way it was calibrated.It will now cook by the header throwing the ecm off.Along with that you will be sucking hot air right off the motor.Just my 2 cents. I could be wrong.I definately will keep my stock lid on.Maybe I will just rtv the filter.If you can incorperate the stanrd intake cover configuration and lower seal with these filters Id say thats the cats meow.But in order to do that you need brew up some kind of system. Good luck .The cool factors there just engineer it some and youll have the ecm working with the iat perfectly. (Message edited by blackflash on February 23, 2010) | ||
| Vtwinbuell |
That was the best filter I could find, it would have been nice to find an angled filter. My other possibility was to add a silicone angled intake tube. Why wouldn't you just use E-spy to adjust the fuel map? What does the Power Commander offer that makes it worth the money? | ||
| Blackflash |
I believe your top end will sacrifice power.You will have a low end big jump in tq.Mine did just that with the lid off compared to stock.The top end sacrificed 2 hp at 130mph. When you dyno it compare the power curves with the box on and with this setup using the speed side of the dyno chart not just the rpm side.It will tell you at what speed it made that power.That is very important .Good luck it does look nice.If you had a clear airbox that would look sweet.  | ||
| Captain_america |
The motor ingests HOT air 100% of the time anyway, well hot compared to actual outside air temp. Have you ever looked at the AT reading on the cluster??? It never matches the actual temp outside. It always seeing all the hot air coming from the radiator fans. I would guess that Moose's intake air temp is very close to what it was before and I also don't think his setup will cause an issue there. Now... If you could get some actual COLD air into the motor that would be key | ||
| Captain_america |
With the air box lid off you DO lose top end power. I can tell by riding. The top speed of the bike is not what it used to be. Accel has slowed at top end and top speed by maybe 5-10mph... which is hard to tell without a dyno. But really who uses all that top end on the street anyway? Me, Only when I'm battling my buddies Gixxer. id only worry if you were going to the track, personally (Message edited by captain_america on February 23, 2010) | ||
| Moosestang |
Why wouldn't you just use E-spy to adjust the fuel map? What does the Power Commander offer that makes it worth the money? The current version of ecmspy doesn't display the 1125 eeprom correctly. The ecmspy mono isn't out yet and no one has reported even using it to tune an 1125. The power commander is well supported, quick to adjust and has shown good results on the two 1125's i've seen it used on. So what it offers is a simple solution. Blackflash, the IAT sensor is in the intake tube under the headlight on the CR. How is anything i do to the airbox going to change the IAT sensor? If anything I'm causing more air to pass by it because there's no sealed airbox to slow it down. It will be very easy to make the bottom of the airbox work with these, but it will permanently destroy the stock filter arrangement. You could also use the top if you so choose. I haven't measured it, but it looks like the top should still fit. Sand has a funny way of working it's way past seals, especially seals that are not a very tight fit or clamped tightly. It's like water in that sense. If there is a way into something, water will find it. IMO the bottom gasket around the throttle bodies as well as the stock filter are weak and i've seen grains of sand work their way past both. I'll gladly sacrifice some power to keep large pieces of sand out of my motor. If I didn't have to ride in these conditions, then I'd probably not worry so much. | ||
| Moosestang |
Blackflash, I think you meant cook when sitting still? The radiator fans are still blowing hot air on it, so I'm not to worried about it cooking. Captain, my AT readings have been the same as ambient when it's cold out and i'm riding at 50mph. I don't expect that to change much with the absence of the air box. | ||
| Captain_america |
Hmmm, Mine doesn't ever seem to match.... Guess i need to check it against a know good reading. maybe a car fallowing me? | ||
| Moosestang |
I've seen mine read 27 degrees at 70mph. I'm pretty sure it was well in the lower 30's! LOL! I wish this bike would throw a little more heat my way. Isn't winter over yet? It's almost March for Christ's sake. | ||
| Vtwinbuell |
Moose, don't you live in FL. There is still between 6" and 6' of snow across my yard. I can't wait for it to warm up. You have e-mail. the screen shot was too big for Badweb. | ||
| Moosestang |
I live near Gainesville, so no snow. It's still stupid cold this year. Here's hoping for a mild winter next year! | ||
| Froggy |
Its 51°F in Gainesville right now, I might have to break out the mesh gear! | ||
| Moosestang |
You must have more natural insulation than me. |
