| Author | Message | ||
     A_s_r |
http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?lnk=r ss&article=35259 http://www.onthethrottle.com/content/view/298/30/ That Dave McGrath guy sounds like a real nobody  | ||
| Dsmcg |
Easy Court. That's way over the top. Listen folks, nobody is trying to beat their chests here or pull a fast one. We've been working very hard to get solid competitive power out of the 1125R engine. AMA superbike rules allow 1200cc displacement for the twins. As most of you know, Erik was going to release a new bike mid 2010. He had the race shop working on a superbike based off that new bike. The developing race bikes are the 1125RR-B / 1190RR-B. The AMA will not allow the 1125RR-A to be changed from the specification raced this past year in New Jersey by Knapp and West. This has not deterred Erik from his continued development of the chassis and powertrain for the new race models. The graph that I posted (as anonymous) was the following; Cory West's New Jersey engine vs one of our mule 1190cc development engines - both using a complete airbox and running AMA mandated Sunoco 260 GTX fuel (non-oxegenated, unleaded, 98 octane fuel; basically really good pump gas) There is no tracing involved. No manipulation of the lines. The difference between these two engines is not just 3mm bigger pistons. The goal is smooth, linear torque production. What you see illustrated by these WOT graphs is the result of hard work by some guys I have been very fortunate to work with. My bad for posting this cropped screen shot on the "Race ECM, Race pipe" thread. There wasn't a "AMA superbike dyno graph" thread. I just thought the Buell enthusiasts out there might be curious about whats cooking. We're all on the same side here. Dave McGrath DSMcG | ||
| A_s_r |
Dave, Well said. Honesty and proof are difficult to come by on the internet, so thank you for doing both so eloquently. I seriously doubt there is another motorcycle forum where we, the enthusiast public, have so few degrees of separation from the people behind the machines we love. Thank you for continuing to fight the good fight! | ||
| Carbonbigfoot |
Thanks for the peek, Dave! Keep up the fight. This is not over yet! R | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Thanks Dave. MOST of us here are on the same side of the fence, however I am sure you know this is the internet and you will have the naysayers crawl out from under the rocks. Please ignore the few negative posters and continue with the updates. It really get our juices flowing. It pains me to hear that EB was going to have a mid-year release on what woould have been a world beater. Thanks HD for your forward thinking! | ||
| Cataract2 |
I'm curious. It was mentioned that the airbox for the 1190 was a great breathing box. Was wondering what was different about it and what it would do on an 1125R. | ||
| Liquorwhere |
Mr McGrath, As I do not know you personally, I will convey an honest and heartfelt thank you for such a succinct and rare piece of ACTUAL knowledge. I am so impressed with what you wrote that I am now very excited to see more. I have an 09 1125R so I am very interested in what can be done with that bike. I don't feel like I will ever part with this one as it has so much sentimental value, but I am very much for hot rodding the beast. I will in the coming weeks post my dyno base line stock and then after with the mods I am doing to see what is actually gained with the set up I purchased. Thank you again for such an in depth and truly honest explanation. Good luck to you and all that are working with you. I know I will be interested in seeing where that bike can be raced, and while some of you might not think so, my friend Sean (Rocketman) is as big of a Buell enthusiast as there is on the planet and will be happy to have seen an explanation to a chart he has waited on for quite some time. Good evening all. | ||
| Mountainstorm |
Straight from the Pegasus' Mouth. I sure hope we can learn some manners here in the 1125r Forum. It would be a shame if every time we receive some real information we run the guy off with our internet antics. I thought most of the BadWeb guys were beyond the drama by now. I started lurking here in 2000 so it's not like I haven't seen worse but still lets keep it together and appreciate the rare privilege of getting the inside scoop. | ||
| Thurstonbuell |
 +1 Storm !!! | ||
| Blake |
"I know I will be interested in seeing where that bike can be raced" Try to keep up. Pegasus Racing will be racing their 1190RRs in Europe. In America, CCS is one of the most popular club series and all the EBR machines will be legal there in applicable classes. The 1125RR and 1125R may be raced in AMA as before. Any other questions? | ||
| Blake |
Dale, The hostile skepticism is way out of line. Accusing EBR of fraud is beyond the pale. A proper apology is owed. You were not only wrong, you were way out of line, in essence accusing good honest people of committing fraud. A proper apology is owed. Wise up. | ||
| Liquorwhere |
Dale, The hostile skepticism is way out of line. Accusing EBR of fraud is beyond the pale. A proper apology is owed. You were not only wrong, you were way out of line, in essence accusing good honest people of committing fraud. A proper apology is owed. Wise up. Let's see...not only no but hell no. I will not apologize for skepticism. Period. I was not hostile, you see it as hostile but you see everything ever said in reference to Buell that is not rosy and perfect as hostile. You need to wise up my friend, I know this is your playground, but if you don't want debate or questioning you won't have many posts around here. I wasn't out of line, and Mr. McGrath came back and posted an excellent piece of information to wit I expressed my sincerest gratitude for his time. I accused no one of fraud, get a grip on reality Blake, and I still don't see where asking for proof makes me wrong. So there. You and Court can properly spew some coffee together but I will not apologize. And in regards to the 1190cc Buell I have yet to see any news that it was submitted for homologation as a new model or as a kit for AMA use, it may have been but it has not been announced as an AMA legal bike. I believe the 1125RR is still legal, so when I say I am interested, I mean I am interested, stop trying to make my words sound like they are a detractor of the efforts. I don't like it, if I have something skeptical or derogatory to say I do just fine on my own I don't need you taking a small line out of context and trying to twist it into something it is not, it makes me think you no read good. I assumed the email some weeks back would have served to explain my position, apparently that missed the mark as well, I replied to you, you never replied back so I figured you got and no more was need...apparently I was wrong, or is this just about Rocket?? Is it? If so please email me and explain or do it right here, I am good with that too, but don't try to bait me to argue with you...ok?...so have a good day Blake, I hope this clears up that request. | ||
| Blackflash |
Good stuff dave  | ||
| Dsmcg |
The plan before the closure was to submit homologation requests for the new racebikes. The haters would not have the same ammunition as last year (ie; "race-only" special) because the new machines would meet the letter of the law regarding homologation requirements. Because this scenario is not possible the AMA has mandated the 1125RR-A is still legal for superbike competition till further notice, but must compete as the same specification "as raced" in the year end event in New Jersey. Obviously this is a huge let down. In the greater scheme of things it pales in comparison to the the Brand closure. Erik was not deterred and work has continued on the race versions. You've seen Pegasus Racing will be competing in the European Sound of Thunder championship on EBR 1190RR-Bs. Their first round being April 15-18 @ Lausitz. "RR", "R", "XB" racebikes will continue pound around racetracks worldwide. Stay tuned. It won't be long before everyone will see what EBR has in store. You will not "B" disappointed. To all the enthusiasts getting themselves at odds with each other - it's OK. We all are after the same thing here. No worries. Dave McGrath DSMcG | ||
| Liquorwhere |
Mr McGrath, That is encouraging news. I hope that the bike will be able to be raced in the US, my question would be if the bike is legal in European areas, what is the possibility of it being raced in the Irish Roadracing Series like the Northwest 200, the Ulster or Skerries..not to mention but let's do because I would love to see it, The Isle of Man? Can it be submitted for these race series? If you the answer it would be really appreciated as I am planning a trip to Skerries and would love to see a Buell in the paddock. Thanks. D | ||
| Blake |
In this case, I read perfectly well. I've never seen such repeatability and consistency on the same bike with a cylinder change, never mind two different bikes running different capacities. If that isn't calling the chart fraudulent, I don't know what is. You absolutely owe the poster, anonymous or not, an apology. | ||
| Justa4banger |
Wow ..so this is how the dyno section blew up in post count...... You Drama queens Reminds me once when i was accused of fudging numbers for a bunch of cam shaft testing i did on my mustang....i ended up posting a MS paint Dyno chart (that i hand crafted  )just to end the thread..... Dsmcg... thanks for the graph... BTW what a/f are you guys tuning for... that was my only complaint of the dyno snap shot... i'm just curious where it was at during the runs.. :cheers: | ||
| Blackflash |
This dyno chart section was integrated in the forum for charts and talk not argument take it somewhere else clowns.This section is for data !! Please take it somewhere else. My only arugment with the 1125rr is that the price exceeds many of us customers.Which only makes us mad .Posting dyno charts for a bike that only three were made.Only 3 made thats really sad.  (Message edited by blackflash on February 04, 2010) (Message edited by blackflash on February 04, 2010) | ||
| Dsmcg |
"Only three were made" - that would be an accurate statement last September. Don't be mad. We can't afford an F1 car but I can appreciate the technology available because they exist. Parts are in the works that are a direct result of the RR development. Stay tuned. DSMcG | ||
| Torquaholic |
Mr. McGrath, I'd like to know your thoughts on spark plugs related to the plug and play ECM as well as related to the 1125RR and 1190RR projects. Is it suggested to run a colder plug with the tuned ECM? Are you running the factory NGK CR9EKB set on the race bikes? Any thoughts on the Denso Iridium Racing IU01-27 or the NGK CR9EIX? Concerning order placement on EBracing... once an ECM is added to the cart, in the "ordering instructions" area of the checkout, that's where I would want to list mods to the bike, if I'd like the BAS functional and on pump gas, ect.. correct? Thanks for your efforts. I really appreciate it. --Kevin | ||
| Davegess |
Isle of Man. The Isle of Man TT is unique in that the Blue Riband event, the Senior TT, is run to rules unique to the Isle of Man. It essentially allows WSBK legal bikes (which means these are the exactly the same bikes that run the Superbike TT early in the week) BUT anything else the organizers think would be competive and interstifn is also allowed. The Norton Rotary as well as the Britten have race in this class. A Buell 1190RR could certainly fit. Of course we would have to find someone with the money to buy a bike and race it ;( The Irish road races have some odd classes also so you might be able to get on entered there, all it takes is money! | ||
| Imonabuss |
Blackflash, Wait a minute. The 1125RR is cheaper than a 1098R Ducati, and waaaay cheaper than the F09 that Larry Pegram rode. So it is very fairly priced for a fully race kitted streetbike. I don't see why that pricing would make anyone mad. And although there were only three made last year, you can order one today from Erik Buell Racing. Or an 1190RR. So why not post the dyno chart? I like seeing it, although I hope I can get to see them race here again. | ||
| Easyrider |
Are there official prices published, if yes, where were they published | ||
| Tbenson |
Dave, The dyno results posted look nice. The numbers posted was not achieved through an off the floor 1125R or CR with available upgrades? The development of the bike, which posted the numbers, was a completely different design throughout the entire bike, only using the 1125R platform? So if I understood that correctly, this bike will have to be purchased, therefore not achievable with the current bikes we currently own with available upgrades? The numbers are nice to look at, but I think most are interested in what they can do to improve their current bikes, without tearing them down and completely rebuilding them to achieve around 60 more horsepower to the wheel? Maybe I misunderstood your posts and explanations of the development of the bike which logged the dyno results? I can understand some seeing the numbers as meaningless, if this is the case. This is not a flame, just a question for clarification! | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Maybe I misunderstood your posts and explanations of the development of the bike which logged the dyno results? It's pretty clear if you took the time to read, the 1190 and 1125rr are the bikes in the dyno graph. It's all pretty obvious that a street 1125r will not make 60+ RWHP by solely addding a race ECM and exhaust. The DSB 1125r at 135 RWHP (or maybe a bit more if you believe the hype from last season) is about what we can expect from hopping up our street machines with race ecm/exhaust only. | ||
| Tbenson |
Fresnobuell, I certainly understood what information was being shared with the dyno chart, and what bike was being used. You restated the exact same point I was making. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Were you making a point or asking Dave a question? I am confused. | ||
| Anonymous |
Just to be clear, you can buy the 171RWHP and 186 RWHP bikes, and/or you can buy the parts. Every 1125RR started as an 1125R. Can you bolt an ECM on your 1125 and get 171HP? Nope. Can you bolt a few more parts on and get 150RWHP? Yes. Does it take a lot more parts to get to 186 RWHP? Yes. | ||
| Blackflash |
How much do those parts cost.If im looking for a bike thats 150 rwhp. I'll buy a 09 r1 for 13k unless the 1125rr parts are cheap? | ||
| Tbenson |
No confusion, I wanted to clarify what I thought was correct with someone who would know! I didn't want it to come off as just my opinion, sorry if it sounded confusing. One has to tread lightly on here anymore, unless they are interested in a confrontation, I am not. |
