| Author | Message | ||
     Gotlime |
The "Sponsor/Free Exchange of Ideas" issue seems to come up a lot. Can we discuss it? I know it's not going to change anything, but I believe www.jeepforum.com has a great model. Their sponsors have their own section where they post sales, sponsors do giveaways which admins send out to everyone, etc. You can also "upgrade" your membership for a fee. I have done that. I have spent money with their sponsors based on these practices. The practices here seem so , I'm not sure what the word is but, but it puts the sponsors at a disadbvantage in my eyes. I have spent money with sponsors here, but I'm hesitant. It feels adversarial. I'm the kind of person that likes to gather all the information I can and then make a decision. I don't feel like there is an open discussion here where I get all the options. I have products related to my bike, that I can't discuss or share my opinion on because a sponsor has a competing product. That's not good for the other users here. If I find a good deal on a product, I can't share it with others here. That's not good. I love BadWeb. I think it is a great site. But I find myself going to other sites because I think I can get more vaild, complete and accurate information from them. But they don't have the same users with the same knowledge and experience that BWB has.... If I'm the only one, I'll shut up, but I'm curious to hear others iopinions. Who would be willing to pay $10 or $20 a year to be able to speak freely? And maybe get a software update.......  I know I would. And seriously, go check out jeepforum and see how they run things. I think it's a good prototype. | ||
| Slypiranna |
+1 | ||
| Hellgate |
I'm a mod over at FZ6 Forum and we do the same thing. http://www.fz6-forum.com/forum/cmps_index.php You can buy a membership, donate, and we have drawings. $5.00 gets you a ticket into the next drawing for items such as a GoPro HD Camera, etc. We have plenty of funds to do cool stuff, up grade servers, etc. We have sponsors but the membership carries most of the cost of operations. From our FZ6 operations we opened up two other forums; one for the FZ1, the other for the FZ6R. There are no limits on discussions and we even have areas for RC Models, Military, Games, etc, etc. The whole idea is to include a wide variety of people and grow that group, share ideas and learn more about each other and the sport. | ||
| Andymnelson |
You can discuss non-sponsor products here all you want, the seller of said product can not sell the product here. I think it's a great model. If the site becomes subscription based and a free-for-all in terms of product pimping, where's the incentive for a company to sponsor and where's my incentive to buy from them? | ||
| Gotlime |
Andy, Please go check out jeepforum or the fz forum mentioned above and see what kinds of sponsorship they have. My experience has been that if I discuss a "non-sponsor" product it is described as marketing even if I don't sell the product, link to it, have any financial interest in the product/company, etc. And, your use of the term "product pimping" is misleading. All I suggested was an open forum to discuss products and services, not allowing non-sponsors to run wild and advertise their products here. Please don't twist my words. (Message edited by gotlime on December 01, 2009) | ||
| Tbenson |
Another Jeep Forum is similar. I am not sure on the fees though? http://www.jk-forum.com | ||
| Iamarchangel |
Not sure what the issue is. There is a section here for sponsors where you can ask questions and see how they respond to answers. There's a section for political crap but it's best not to go there if... well, they do warn you not to go. Most sponsors here are part of the dialogues. I can figure out which ones I would deal with from the context, even though I probably couldn't hang out with them. Seems to me that the only rule is that you can't flog your own product or sound like you're pimping for somebody else. However, you can discuss them. And I'm happy with no subscription cost, I probably wouldn't pay it. I think this is one of the best forums I belong to, all free by the way, and if it's down for an afternoon for an ugrade, I can live with that. | ||
| Gotlime |
I have a TJ.  I don't go around any JK forums. All that discussion of their van motors and such.................. | ||
| Gotlime |
Paymernt is optional at these other forums. You get some benefit for your premium membership though. | ||
| Milt |
This is the easiest to use, most information rich forum I've ever used. I think the PP (pimping policy) works very well as is. I do wish that political crap would stay in the political crap section. However, I'm a big boy and can ignore the leakage. | ||
| Hellgate |
Andy - No pimping or spam allow on the FZ site. We have hard and fast rules on that. However sponsors will post up specials for forum members; it's not too many and is by no means a free for all. Today a sponsor has A* leather jackets shipped for $149. We've got a Two Brothers deal that is on going and other stuff from time to time. As mods we have authority over what is posted in our areas and we deal with problems on the spot. | ||
| Tbenson |
Gotlime, I knew you would go there, I have no response because it is true! Happy with the Jeep Unlimited though! My 1125R took the place of my engine upgrade plans. | ||
| Rkc00 |
+2 Gotlime I have said it before and I will say it again. I am happy to pay for a membership here to get rid of the non-sponsership gag orders. I have purchased from a lot of the sponsors here and will continue to do so. Mike Long Island, NY 09 XB12X Red/Black 09 1125CR Black/White 06 VRSCR Blue/Silver | ||
| Speedy818 |
I think the problem is that the line between discussion and marketing is really getting blurred. There have been several threads where posters have just asked about availability of a particular product and have been shot down for it. I understand that this is Blake's house, but I do really think the rule needs to be clarified to keep everyone happy. We don't want to fall the way of so many other organizations who refuse to keep up with the times. As someone with an MBA in marketing, I understand vaguery of the word "Marketing", but to be textbook about it - it's the activities surrounding the sale and purchase of product and services. One might infer that to think that we can't discuss cars in here, as sponsors don't sell cars... +1 though to paying a little to be able to speak freely. | ||
| Kevin_stevens |
Suffice it to say that I have a lot of information that I have not posted, because the rules are insuffiiciently clear and inconsistently applied. Some of the proposals, such as that vendors be polled to see if they offer the same or a competitive product prior to discussion, are absolutely ridiculous and impractical. And the chilling effects are enough that I'm actively investigating replacing badweatherbikers as my "primary" Buell forum. It will be a case of coming here if I have to, rather than because it's a positive and welcoming experience. (shrug) Blake can run the board however he wants. I'll vote with my feet. I'm sure both will survive just fine. KeS | ||
| Sl33py |
sorry jeep guys - landcruiser guy here! ih8mud is a similar site w/ great support of LC's. A yearly fee allows you to post up unlimited pics, and unlocks the amt of PM's you can get. Simple and effective. I've been a paying member i think since '04. I'd love to see this site: 1. get updated (look at PHBB) 2. allow discussions freely unless major violation (like racial slurs). Not for someone posting up a competing product... Avatar pics, quoting natively, etc... mainly just need an update to the board. OH - and a "Sticky" and FAQ!!! what a concept!?! | ||
| Moosestang |
Just make the post, that's what I do. If the owner doesn't like it, then it gets deleted. There are other forums too you know. | ||
| Moosestang |
Oh, the reason there are so many knowledgeable people here is because it's a free forum. | ||
| Froggy |
Badweb has neither of those limits, but I get what you are hinting at.
A vBulliten upgrade has been in the works, but its not simple as pressing a button, due to the fact that Badweb has over 10 years worth of posts to try and save. There is a prototype version of the new Badweb that has been up for while
They have been disabled, but Badweb does support them.
?
While not the 100% same as the stickies on other boards, we do have in the BB&D and Thumper sections a set of FAQ's and its stuck to the top above discussions. Hell if you want something to bitch about, BuellXB.com didn't have PM's at all till about a month ago. Talk about behind the times! | ||
| Fmaxwell |
+3 Gotlime You very eloquently expressed the problem here and you did an excellent job of contrasting the policies on BadWeb with those on other motor vehicle forums. As I stated in another thread, BadWeb sponsors should be paying for eye-catching banner ads, dedicated forums in which they can market to BadWeb customers, and the ability to promote their businesses and products in the forums. Now it looks like they are paying hush-money: If Bob's Buell Luggage sponsors BadWeb, then we can't post links to his competitor's sales, special offers, new products, etc. BadWeb's business model reminds me of the old coal mining company towns where the coal company set up all of the stores at which the residents had to shop -- outside competition was unwelcome. I've never, outside of this forum, seen a definition of marketing or promotion that included people posting about sales and products offered by companies in which they have no financial interest (e.g., posting a link to a Buell apparel closeout at a non-sponsoring dealer). | ||
| Andymnelson |
I didn't twist anyones words...they were my own I think my thoughts stand on their own. The model used here makes sense, keeps the forum free to users, allows the users to freely discuss any product they want to, gives incentive for sellers to sponsor and buyers to buy from sponsors. | ||
| Xl1200r |
Ok, let's all stop beating around the bush. The reason any of this is coming up is because of the "Oh-Ess-Bee" software, and there is MUCH more to that story than just a competing product or a non-sponsor of the board. I'm not going to get into details of it, but they're there. Other than that ONE example, I can't think of anything out there that's been hushed because of "sponsor" issues. I (and others) have discussed at length Givi luggage. None of our sponsors that I'm aware of carry Givi luggage, though they do carry other luggage options. Links have been posted to the sites in which said luggage was bought - again, from a non-sponsor. The threads were not hushed or deleted. Why on earth would I PAY just to speak freely? Are you suggesting that folks get to buy their way out of following the forum rules? | ||
| Gotlime |
I don't care about ••• and from my perspective, they/it have nothing to do with this. In the "jeepforum" model, no one is REQUIRED to pay anything. Folks CAN pay to have some extra priviliges, as mentioned above, and to suppoert the site. I am not suggesting people get to pay to break any rules. If people would go visit the other sites mentioned before spouting off, things would make a lot more sense. | ||
| Ccryder |
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| Speedy818 |
XL1200R - it's much more than what you are referring to: Deals on clothing Axle slider new products rearset controls stands just off the top of my head have all seen censorship of some sort b/c the discussion related to in some way, items that were either being sold by non-sponsors, asked to be made by a non-sponsor, or linked to (I can understand that) a non-sponsor selling items not sold (to the best of my knowledge) by sponsors (kinda confusing.) | ||
| Xl1200r |
XL1200R - it's much more than what you are referring to: Yeah, I spoke too soon as I just saw those threads - never opened them because I wasn't interested. Oh well. For the record, I think we should be allowed to discuss products that non-sponsors sell, but I'm not holding my breath on changing any policies. Just throwing this out there, but the 1125 board seems to be the only one that suffers from this stuff to the extent it does. | ||
| Fmaxwell |
@Xl1200r I had a reply to you here, but I see that you're "with us," so I just deleted it. (Message edited by fmaxwell on December 01, 2009) | ||
| Froggy |
I have noticed the same. It happens occasionally in the XBoard, and almost never in the BB&D. I can't recall seeing it ever in the Thumper section, but I don't check it as often as the rest. I must of missed those threads mentioned, as I only saw the spools one. At first I wasn't sure why Blake posted his comment, but his follow up comment cleared it up for me. | ||
| Chadhargis |
Sponsors are a good thing, but it should be a symbiotic relationship. As a consumer, I need to be able to buy goods and services at a fair price just as a business needs to sell them for a profit. Enter BadWeb. An enthusiast website. Who do they define as their "customers". Is the customer us...the average Joe enthusiast who comes here to share our passion, or is it the sponsors who pay for the site through fees in order to access a large number of their potential customers. It appears, as with anything, you need to follow the money. Badweb is beholden to the sponsors since they pay the bills. Like it or not, that's how it is. Now, if we all paid the bills, then it would be different. Everyone always says they would be willing to pay, but when the time comes to pony up, only about 20% of the people are going to pay, the rest will either mooch or go to another "free" site. On other forums I am a member of, you are free to discuss whatever you want, but there are typically vendors who post regularly and are active members of the forum. In turn, they garner a lot of business for themselves without incurring any cost. If some fly by night schmuck shows up and crooks a few people, it doesn't take long for word to spread and they are typically banned. The BadWeb policies have never been a big deal for me. If you have a good line on a deal somewhere, then you can post up, "Good Deal on..." and in the post say, "Private Message me for details". Anyone who is interested in that product can get the scoop. That's how I learned about the O.$.B. tune. I didn't purchase it, but at least I got the scoop on it. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
There is much more to the story regarding O S B. The goal here is to reward sponsors for their monetary support of BW. In return, BW sponsors get the privilege of unlimited promotion, market research, and access to BW members. There are many products that get mentioned from non-sponsors. When a thread about gear comes up, I normally recommend NJK Leathers. They make good stuff. The problem is when we have commercial ventures who want to use BW for sales and market research but do not want to pay the very small fee to become sponsors. Why should we have one group that must "pay to play" and others that do not? Why is that fair? Do you guys know what it costs annually to become a BW sponsor? When we see a group "spamming" their products contrary to the rules set and agreed upon when each person signed on, we kindly invite them to either cease promotion of their products or to become a BW sponsor. It's when we have folks who continue to promote their products and refuse to become BW sponsors that we have a problem. What are we supposed to do then? If we allow them to continue, why should a sponsor write the next check for sponsorship? It doesn't really matter whether they are promoting directly or whether surrogates do it, they are still lessening the benefits of sponsorship. If you really like a product and feel it would be a good fit for BW, please send them to me. We would LOVE to increase our list of sponsors with products in demand by BW members. |
