| Author | Message | ||
     Olinxb12r |
I'll start off with my background. I owned a 2004 XB12R Firebolt from August of 2004 until April of 2008. I really liked my Buell, and it was good to me for about 13,000 miles. I never had problems with it, and it was a ton of fun to ride. I really liked a lot of things about the bike, and there was of course some things that I wasn't really high on. I ended up modifying the bike quite a bit to make it look, sound and ride the way I wanted it to (see profile). I sold it because I finished my MBA and I wanted to make sure I could afford my student loans, condo and other bills so the bike expense had to be dropped. I'm not a Buell hater so flame away if you love Buells, but this is my opinion of the 1125r like it or hate it. About a month ago I stopped by Gail's Harley Davidson in Grandview MO (Kansas City area) to look at the 2009 1125r bikes. They had a few of them on the floor, and after checking them out I took a test ride. I really wanted to like the bike, and I was really thinking it might be my next bike. It was almost strange how much the 1125r felt like my Firebolt. It was like sitting on my old bike after it did a couple cycles of steroids during the 18 months I hadn't seen it or rode it. The bike had tons more power than my Firebolt, and it was a lot more smooth than the Harley engine based bike as well. The delivery was excellent, and I was very happy when I didn't reach for 6th gear in vein as I did so many times on my Firebolt. So the good: Power way up Smoother delivery 6 gears Better more advanced gauge cluster All black frame/swingarm and etc Even stronger front brake (8 piston caliper) Slipper Clutch The bad: For the love of God get Buells out of the Harley Dealerships!!!!! They had an entire huge storage room upstairs of unsold Buells including 07-08, and maybe older, XBs and 08 1125s! It was so many bikes. I don't even want to guess how many because you probably wouldn't believe it, but I'm going to say 40-50 bikes.... To much carryover!!!!!!- tail section, tail light, wheels, airbox, basic frame/swingarm and ergos/controls.... It basically looks like a 2003 Firebolt with a new front fairing and radiator pods The new front fairing is huge and not great looking The radiator pods are still ugly to me The exhaust is terrible looking, and I haven't seen a good aftermarket pipe yet The rear brake still sucks (par the course for most sportbikes though) It's pretty buzzy when going through the gears. You don't have the strong vibration like on the Firebolt, it is more of a high frequency buzz now Additional problems: In 2008 they released this bike with all this carryover, and it still had a lot of problems. On top of the mechanical/electrical problems in the first year model it had an ugly blue frame and wheels to go along with the ugly pods, front fender and all the stuff they stole from a bike that was released in 2003.... With all of these problems the 2008 bikes didn't sell well at all. At the dealership in KC they probably had 20 2008 1125r bikes in the storage area upstairs. That brings me to the next big issue. With so many 2008 bikes left at the dealerships they also were not able to sell the 2009 models, and now the 2010 bikes are showing up. I think we know what the resale on these bikes is going to be.... Absolute crap! I'm not going to spend $12,500 on a new 09 or 10 motorcycle when you still have 08s sitting in storage..... Buell has really dug a hole with this bike, and it is really to bad. It really is a good bike and a huge step in the right direction for Buell, but they just didn't deliver. They obviously tried to get the bike to market a year before they should have. If they would have spent an extra year in development of the bike they could have actually delivered a market ready ALL NEW bike as a 2009 model without the bugs of the 2008 model. They could have done without the stupid blue frame and wheels, and given us a whole new set of body work, but they were under heavy pressure to deliver a 25th anniversary bike.... I hope that their lack of foresight and good planning doesn't cost us the only American made sportbike option available. They were finally starting to turn their reputation around in the market with XB bikes, but the 2008 1125r was a huge step backwards instead of the giant leap forward it could have been if it was released as a 2009 model with the proper development. The verdict: Well, I think it is pretty obvious that I'm very disappointed by the bike. I bought a GSXR 1000 instead of the 1125r because I couldn't convince myself to look past all the bad and buy American. Message to the Buell brass.... Give the American sportbike market a good product in a dealer network that wants to sell the bikes without the stigma of being a sportbike guy at a Harley dealership and they will sell. If you keep doing the same thing you've done the results will not get better! (Message edited by Olinxb12r on October 09, 2009) | ||
| Froggy |
Buell has been known to look here in the past. Will they see this? I can't say yes or no. Most of your complaints are shared by others. Also most of your complaints are opinions, like the frame color. I don't like the Diamond blue either, so I got an 09 and am happy with the black. Carryover parts help reduce costs. Also, majority of the carryover stuff is cosmetic. The exhaust is fantastic, the best stock exhaust on any vehicle I have ever seen. I am sure they could of came out with a way of making it cosmetically look better though. The rear brake is perfect. It was a little soft when I first bought the bike, but after getting some use it has a little more grab, but not enough that I will unintentionally lock it up. I like it better than my XB's. My bike was also buzzy when I first got it, but after about a thousand miles its smooth as silk, and can give a BMW car a run for the money. If that dealer still has 20 bikes, they have something wrong going on. My dealer sold its last 08 1125 about a year ago, and they once in a while get one from another dealer and then sell that. They had a few 09's left when I last checked, but it was slim pickings, especially with the XB's. Good luck with the GSXR! Sorry that a gallon of paint is all that kept you from an awesome machine.  | ||
| Geforce |
Right on man, get what you want to ride. And you did. Have a good ride. Later. | ||
| Olinxb12r |
I agree most of my points are opinions, just like I said after I explained that I'm a former happy Buell owner. The changes they made in the 09 1125r and adding the cr were improvements over the 08, but to me it seems like they should have just spent an extra year in development and started with the 09 bikes. Unfortunately it is way more than the paint that kept me from the bike. In the past the engine has always been the thing holding Buells back, but now the engine seems to be the star of the bike. They could have hit this one out of the park if they would have made an ALL NEW bike instead of sticking a good engine in the bike they've been making since 03. The sportbike market is uber competitive, and it seems like they want to compete but not really all the way. The fact that they didn't give us a new bike, just a new engine, combined with my fear of never being able to sell it when I was ready for something different is the real reason I didn't buy the bike. | ||
| Froggy |
You need to take a second look at your "new motor in old bike" theory. The only parts carried over are a few plastics, and the rims. Thats it. I was skimming through the parts book on my bike today looking for stuff I can cross reference between all my bikes, and the list of numbers I circled wouldn't even fill a page. Everything is new or improved upon from the XB. The wheels themselves are so fantastic that they didn't need to be changed, and that saved another $1000 from being added to the cost of the bike. For what its worth, the 2010 models have a new tail light and rear wheel, so thats two less things on the already short list of what the 1125R and 03 XB9R have in common. As for not being competitive, they are doing everything they can with their limited size and budgets. Buell is a company of about 200 people. Suzuki has more people than that just to mow the lawn at their headquarters. The good thing about the poor resale value is that they can be picked up dirt cheap. Even new they are selling for not much more than used bikes, so even if you had it short term there wouldn't be much of a loss, and the low price would be more attractive to potential buyers. Hell I am looking for a cheap wrecked 08 for a project of mine. Around here at least, I wouldn't touch a used Japanese sportbike, the ones that haven't been thrashed and crashed are few and far between. The good ones go for about the same cost as a new Buell. | ||
| Tbenson |
Froggy, There is one in Delaware, Ohio (Cycle Search International) for $4995, it does not look to bad, looks like right side damage. I want the exhaust off of it. http://images.traderonline.com//img/5/dealer/81891 0//95467245_1thumb_550x410.jpg. http://images.traderonline.com//img/5/dealer/81891 0//95467245_2thumb_550x410.jpg | ||
| Fresnobuell |
are you done? What's the point of this thread? You didn't like the Buell and bought a Gixxer. Congratulations. Why not write BMC instead of posting here? Bye. | ||
| Dirty_john |
Well as a Firebolt,09 1125R owner I think you are not appreciating the realities of mass production, to resuse components form the XB range on the 1125R makes sound commercial sense and "if it ain't broke don't fit it". Yes there have been problems with the 1125R, especially the clutch issue. I am personally disappointed that after many issues with wheel bearing failure with the XB range, only now the matter has been hopefully revised with an additional rear wheel bearing but what about the front wheel? I would buy another 1125R tomorrow if I had the cash so I could keep one for the track. In 34 years of riding bikes I can honestly say that the 1125R is a fantastic package. | ||
| Garrett2 |
yeah, a lot of what you said was really just opinions (colors etc). and i dont think that being in a HD dealership is killing their sales - people know where to get them. if they are interested then they know where they can go to check one out. | ||
| Maul |
Yup opinions are like A**holes. Anyway tell me how many times Suzuki put out an "all new" GSXR in the last few years. You are missing out on a great bike in its early stages. Buell will continue to refine and improve the bike every year just like they did the XB line. Without beating a dead horse, BMC backs their bikes and deals with problems as they come up. Two year warranties are a good example of their commitment to their product. If you don't like it that is okay, but don't expect your opinions to be shared by everyone. | ||
| Whynot |
Buell isn't the only brand that ever had an overstock problem, and an image problem -- how 'bout an '08 Honda CB1000RR for 8K + fees (negotiable)? For example, see http://www.windhammotorcycles.com/ http://www.nestreetriders.com/forum/general-bike-related/51153-2008-cbr1000rrs-7999-otd.html "That's the same bike that retails for 13.5k" "the same bike is 6900$ OTD at Abernathy's in TN." "Also 2007s in Metuchen, NJ for $6900." "I almost bought one because the price was so great, but after reading the oil burning threads on http://www.1000rr.net/forums/ I decided against it." "The oil burning has been discussed over and over at 1000rr.net. People there came to a conclusion that there were only some isolated cases." (Message edited by whynot on October 09, 2009) (Message edited by whynot on October 09, 2009) | ||
| Court |
>>>Buell isn't the only brand that ever had an overstock problem Same deal with Porsche. . . 2008, 2009 and 2010's in stock. If you really want anybody at Buell to know you will have to write a letter. (Message edited by court on October 09, 2009) | ||
| Olinxb12r |
I think I will take your advice and write a letter to Buell. I expected my post to be met with some bad reactions, so it's no biggie. I just feel like I am probably just about the exact person that Buell designed the 1125r to sell to (former happy Buell owner/upper 20s/sportbike rider/I have the funds to purchase a bike in the price range), so they may be interested in why I didn't buy one. | ||
| Whynot |
... not that I'm going to buy a Honda. (Message edited by whynot on October 09, 2009) | ||
| Chadhargis |
I've always felt the Buell chassis, exhaust, etc....were perfect. They just needed a motor, and they have that now. The 1125 is an excellent bike. I'm a function over form guy, and I don't really care what it looks like as long as it does what I want it to. I very much appreciate that they carried the wheels over. Let's me use my spare wheels from my XB on the 1125 with just a pulley change. I just sold a Gixxer, and I have nothing against them. They are fine bikes. I just prefer the Buell. I like how it feels. I like how it handles. As for your dealer not selling the bikes, I know for a fact that my local dealer is buying '08 leftovers from underperforming dealers and selling them. For what they left over '08's are going for, it's the best deal in motorcycling, bar none. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
They could have hit this one out of the park if they would have made an ALL NEW bike instead of sticking a good engine in the bike they've been making since 03. Let's see: New Ztl2 front brake, deriving from Buell Racing New 47mm upgraded forks New Quiet Zone cockpit (functionally the best in the business, even if you don't like the width) New Instrument Cluster w/ODIS Hydraulic Actuated Clutch Vacuum assist, slipper action Clutch 6-speed transmission Ram Air Intake Longer swingarm Redesigned muffler and anything else I forgot to mention. There is much more than only a new motor in the 1125 series. | ||
| Clarkjw |
Buell has the best chassis the business. If it weren't for their •••••• parts suppliers, the dumbest fuel injection guy on the planet,and a CEO who thinks style is irrelevant, The 1125R would be the best streetbike on the planet.} (Message edited by clarkjw on October 09, 2009) | ||
| Tbenson |
"i dont think that being in a HD dealership is killing their sales" Sale a $20K + Bagger with thousands of dollars of options available in house, or sale a $13K - sportbike with limited accessories available, and little if any on the shelves. That explains itself, when working for some sort of commission and/or Dealer priority meetings! Not all, but the majority of Dealers express the value of selling Harley's over the Buells, in my opinion! I sold my Harley to get a sportbike, and when I went to look at the Buells, the salesperson kept leaning me toward the V-Rod instead, I almost did not return to buy the Buell. I was there for over 2hrs. just to pick-up the bike and sign the already finished paperwork, I kept being pushed aside by people interested in buying Harley's. I transferred all the funds and information the day before over the phone when I purchased the bike, so all I had to do is sign and ride. Not complaining, just stating facts of what happened! Troy | ||
| Chadhargis |
I am SO fortunate that I have a great dealer. Buells are displayed at the front of the dealer as soon as you walk in the door. At least two of the sales staff rides Buells. The owner races and rides Buells. If I were a dealer owner, I'd figure that a Harley sells itself. People come to a Harley shop seeking a Harley. There are other cruisers out there, but none are perceived as being the "original" like a Harley. I would think most Harley buyers are only considering a Harley. Buell buyers, on the other hand, are looking at many other sportbikes. Having a Buell friendly staff can only SUPPLEMENT your bottom line, not hurt it. I don't think anyone coming in to buy a Buell is going to buy a Harley. Now, you might have some Harley guys take a look at Buell. I know lots of sport bike riders who also have a Harley. Getting butts in the seats for a ride is typically all it takes to sell a Buell. I have a friend who was/is a Buell hater. He's ridden my Ulysses and my 1125CR and both times he was amazed at how well the bike handled. After the ride on the 1125, he said, "If I'd have ridden that bike before I bought my FZ1, I'd have bought it instead". That speaks volumes. Heck, I used to hate cruisers, but after hanging out at Bumpus and pawing on a few of the chrome covered rolling sofas...I might like to have a ride on one. | ||
| Ron_luning |
When I walk into a H-D dealer I feel like Kunta Kinte at a Merle Haggard concert (Bloodhound Gang quote). One thing you're definitely correct about is the dealership problem. Some are great and can sell either a Buell or Harley Davidson without a problem, but most I've seen consider Buell to be an unwelcome stepchild. Maybe H-D could put Buell next to MV Agusta in the same dealership and be able to sell them both since they're in different price ranges, then again maybe that wouldn't work either. All I know is that I hate going to a dealer where I am subjected to a sea of long beards, leather tassels, club vests, and middle aged women that think they're 19. Hence, I don't go to the dealer unless absolutely necessary. | ||
| Metalrabbit |
As far as the "look" of the 1125r I think Eric Buell wanted it to look like a Lion, yes, The Big Cat. I think it does, except when I'm on it. Now if I could just get it to go down the road by itself  | ||
| Tbenson |
"Heck, I used to hate cruisers, but after hanging out at Bumpus and pawing on a few of the chrome covered rolling sofas...I might like to have a ride on one" Don't do it, you will justify buying one! +1, then I bought one! I own a 1125R now, hmmm!!! No really, I liked my HD, and it fit me better. I look to fat and ugly on the 1125R, but I don't care, so much more fun! I wish I could have both, and about 10 other bikes! | ||
| Chadhargis |
I've tried to convince my wife I need 5 bikes. I was up to 4, and sold two. Only have my 1125 and my Kymco scooter now. But I'll start building the collection when the little one is grown. Got a few "daddy" years ahead of me and more important things to spend my money on. | ||
| Court |
>>>so they may be interested in why I didn't buy one. They are ALWAYS interested. Stick the the facts. Letters like "Buell sucks" go pretty much straight to the trash but you'd be amazed at how deeply and how long that stuff effects Erik. Best bet is to state your opinion factually and concisely and remember that a single opinion is not a "preponderance of evidence". I'd write to: Mr. Jon Flickinger, President Buell Motorcycle Company 2799 Buell Drive East Troy, WI 53120 If you need any help, drop me a note. | ||
| Chadhargis |
I need to meet John someday. I've met Erik a few times. I hear the dealer show is in Nashville again next year. I need to sneak in again. (Actually, I just walked in....it wasn't hard) | ||
| Budo |
"For the love of God get Buells out of the Harley Dealerships!!!!! They had an entire huge storage room upstairs of unsold Buells including 07-08, and maybe older, XBs and 08 1125s! It was so many bikes. I don't even want to guess how many because you probably wouldn't believe it, but I'm going to say 40-50 bikes.... " How is this even possible, 40-50 bikes! "Sale a $20K + Bagger with thousands of dollars of options available in house, or sale a $13K - sportbike with limited accessories available, and little if any on the shelves." This is the problem, someone looking at a Buell has zero interest in a Bagger. However the salesperson often tries to steer the potential Buell buyer to a 'real motorcycle' ie a HD. (Message edited by budo on October 09, 2009) | ||
| Blake |
James (Ohlin), You lost me after the first half of your post. It was all good until you went of on the ignorant rant against Buell and were for some strange reason put off by inventory. Dude. Buy the bike you want, but good grief, please do so based on substantial reasoning, reality, and NOT perception from an internet forum or the number of bikes that a particular dealer may have in stock. That just makes no sense to me. I can accept perfectly well "I dislike the appearance", but not "there were too many bikes in stock". LOL. "With all of these problems the 2008 bikes didn't sell well at all." Really? How many warranty claims were there for 2008 Buell 1125R's, and how many sold versus how many were produced? Maybe your are just making stuff up? My take is that if the GSXR1000 repli-racer is your preferred bike, then the Buell was never in the running. And then it really gets goofy, not buying a 2009 because you didn't like the Blue color of the 2008 model? Huh? LOL. Dude. Seems like you needed to really find a collection of excuses to convince yourself that you didn't want the Buell. Why not just leave it at, "I prefer the GSXR." The rest is just a bunch of baloney. | ||
| Olinxb12r |
Thanks Court. I don't hate Buell at all. I really liked my Firebolt. I am just disappointed that the 1125r, in my opinion, isn't the same leap from the XB models that the Xbs were from the tubers. Some of the stuff that I've read about the problems people have had are pretty tuber'ess in fact if you will. If it was the same leap to the 1125 from the XB as it was from the tubers to the XB I would own one right now instead of the GSXR. I want Buell to be successful, and I would love nothing more than to see them have the sales numbers to be able to duke it out with the big boys. I just don't see how it is ever going to be possible with the current business model and having the bikes in the mothership dealers. I do like the idea someone else brought up about selling the Buells next to the MV line. That seems to make a lot of sense to me. You would draw a lot of sportbike guys in to a dealership that only sold those bikes, or maybe a dealership that sold those and Ducks or Aprilias. A good group of sales people that love what they're selling and an environment that the buyer is comfortable in goes a long way towards getting units out the door. I'll put something together and send it to Mr. Flickinger. As far as Mr. Buell himself is concerned, I have a feeling that he probably didn't feel he was given the proper time to develope this bike.... From his other designs and things he has done in the past I just don't see him as the type that would be completely happy with a bike that borrows from something he designed so long ago. (Message edited by Olinxb12r on October 09, 2009) | ||
| Olinxb12r |
Hey Blake, I knew you would chime in sooner or later. You've always been such a peach. I've really missed your attitude towards the people that have different opinions than yours since I haven't been on here much in the last 18 months..... My perception is based on this. In Kansas City, where I live, the only dealer within an hour of here hasn't been able to sell their 2008 inventory and they have a bunch of 2009s as well. So in my area if I was to buy an 1125r there would be no market to sell it in to later when I want to get something different in a couple years. Simple supply and demand friend, they have the supply but there is no demand. The GSXR was in no way my preferred bike. I bought it because it is a good all around bike that there will always be a demand for and I got a great deal. When I want to sell it in a couple years there will still be a demand for it, and maybe I'll buy another Buell at that point depending on what they have in the market at that time. I also never said I didn't buy an 09 1125r because of the blue frame and wheels. I was stating that it seems like from the things I've read and the immediate changes that Buell made to the bikes in the second model year that it seems the bike was not really market ready when they released it. It seems that the corporate pressure to release something new overcame the ability and funds to design and test the bike enough so that the electrical, mechanical and heat problems were solved prior to release to market. With enough testing those problems could have been addressed, and I'm sure with enough market research they would have known to deliver the bikes in the all black trim in the first year instead of the second. What I'm saying with all this is that Buell has a very fragile reputation in the sportbike community (the largest potential customer group by the way), and the problems encountered with the 08 models along with the lack of new styling may have lost those customers on the bike for good. I remember countless times explaining to people how good of a bike my Firebolt was, but perception is reality, and old problems and demons are hard to wipe away. It seems like now that the XB line is 7 model years old some of the old perceptions are falling away, but now there is a new set of perceptions from the 08 1125r bikes to fix. In order to be competitive in this market Buell needs to be perfect, or damn close to it. Waiting an extra year to test and develop (new skins and etc.) the bike seems like it would have been a good idea, and I hope that people will start to come around to the bike as Buell improves it through it's life cycle. I just don't know if it is going to happen if they keep selling it in HD dealerships, but if the perceptions of the brand are damaged enough I guess it won't really matter anyway. | ||
| Blake |
What I'm saying is that what you are passing off as factual is nothing of the kind. Reading an internet forum and imagining that it provides the true picture of a motorcycle's quality is akin to standing in line next to the morgue thinking you will get a good idea of hospital quality. It's just plain ludicrous. I and many others happen to like the blue of the '08's. That you don't and see fit to ascribe that to some kind of poor business decision by Buell is just as silly. Not much of what you say critical of Buell makes any sense to me. That coupled with the fact that you seem to have completely ignored the past year's financial/economic climate just plain comes off badly for your point of view. Do you know for an absolute fact that all of the bikes you saw at Gails were their own original ordered inventory? Why if their inventory was so overstocked, were you unable to negotiate a price below $12,500? That's the price you stated, yes? Again, I can accept and even support "I prefer a GSXR over an 1125". The stuff you are trying to put onto Buell though isn't fair, some is not factual, and some is just plain silly (they got the color wrong, on account of you don't like it). |
