| Author | Message | ||
     Bikejunky |
Recently I had a discussion with a friend about the 1125R. He believes that Buell shouldn't market the bike as an American Made Motorcycle because among other things, The motor is Austrian and the suspension is Japanese. Thoughts on this please. Also Please no bashing the opinions of others as they are just that, opinions. I am just looking for perspective before I decide to delete him from my friends list. | ||
| Jmr1283 |
its made here. its designed here. its a american motorcycle. give it time and theyll possibly do all that ducati and others do. engine design/manufactoring in house. etc. thing about all the other american made stuff. its almost all along the same lines. | ||
| Kttemplar |
The Bike is still American Made. The bike is assembled in the US by Americans. The parts may come for around the world, but the company, and the work is done here. Additionally, the design parameters for the engine and other parts are from Buell, even though other companies manufacture the parts, the design is American. The "American" car companies are doing the same thing. Mike | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
What about "American" cars made in Canada? What about "Japanese" cars made in Ohio? Aprilia has been using Rotax engines and and Ohlins shocks. Does this make them NOT Italian? It's a world market with parts sources all over the world. I believe your friend has an extremely narrow view of what makes a product "American". | ||
| Brent1125russ |
Buell is made in East Troy, WI. Since we haven't given WI back to Canada, I'd say that's about American made as it gets. Yeah, the motor was made in Austria; but some of the minerals that made the metal probably came from the States. Yeah, the suspension came from Japan; but it also probably contains trace amounts of radioactive material from the two presents we gave them in WWII. To me personally, American made means that the people (or sexy robots) that put that thing together are Americans. That also makes my Toyota pick-up (made in Lexington, KY) American made in my book. I don't care that the protons in the aluminum originally came from Betelgeuse or Torcularis Septentrionalis. | ||
| Xl1200r |
That also makes my Toyota pick-up (made in Lexington, KY) American made in my book. Follow the money, bro. The profits from your "American-made" truck all go back to the Empire. Keep fooling yourself. Bikejunky - does your friend consider the XB bikes American? The frame on XB is Italian with an American engine. Frame on an 1125 is American with an Austrian engine. | ||
| Jersey_thunder |
why are we waisting our time on this ...you got to be kidding me  JT | ||
| Brent1125russ |
"Follow the money, bro. The profits from your "American-made" truck all go back to the Empire. Keep fooling yourself. " When I bought that truck, how many American families did I put food on the table, clothes on their back, and magic in their 8 balls? Better than buying a GM or Chrysler: The profit may go to the Empire, but the GM profit goes to a bunch of douchebags that can't run a company and then steal our tax money to bail their worthless butts out.....I'll take the Empire over those ass-hats any day of the week. Plus, buying anything made by UAW workers is like paying a 9 year old Nigerian girl to perform brain surgery on yourself....a waste of money. | ||
| Brapbrapbrap |
If I assemble a BBQ from Walmart that was manufactured in China does that mean it's American made? No longer is Buell an American made bike, Rotax makes incredible engines but it's not employing American workers. Assembled here is not the same as made by. Just because a Toyota truck has its 'final assembly here does not make it American. I hope this changes in the future thats why I bought my Buell in the first place. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Follow the money, bro. The profits from your "American-made" truck all go back to the Empire. Keep fooling yourself. Dear Lord, do we have to have this discussion over, and over, and over, and over? The "profits", go to me, and you, and everyone who invests in a mutual fund, stock, or retirement account. Follow the money? I did. Right into my IRA. Who's stock is worth more these days, GM or Toyota? Chrysler or Honda? I make money when people who know how to run a company run a company well. Why piss good money down a hole like GM or Chrysler? | ||
| Carbonbigfoot |
Who's stock is worth more these days, GM or Toyota? Chrysler or Honda? uuuuhh... Ford. <grin> Rob | ||
| Slaughter |
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| Ft_bstrd |
Ford's under $2/sh. Toyota's just under $80/sh. I'll take Toyota in my IRA for a triple word score, Bob. | ||
| Cyclonedon |
made in East Troy, Wisconsin! it doesn't get any more American than that!  | ||
| Pariah |
As somebody already mentioned, the "Austrian" engine was a collaborative effort between Buell and Rotax (owned by a Canadian company, BTW). Erik Buell's team had a lot to do with the design of the engine... there was a lot of back and forth, as there is in any joint engineering effort. America is an eclectic place. One might argue that using bits and pieces from around the world makes the bike even more American.  | ||
| Brapbrapbrap |
The engine! Its the major component/cost of a motorcycle. I wish it was made here too but wishing will not make it so. Not sure how you think something is made in America when it comes in a crate from another country. Engine, suspension, brakes etc. Here is how the Fed's calculate the % domestic in a car. Engine counts for a high % and thats a car with an interior seats electronics etc. http://www.fta.dot.gov/printer_friendly/leg_reg_54 31.html | ||
| Usmoto |
My thought on it is that I really don't care where it's made, it's an awesome bike.  | ||
| Kttemplar |
+1 Usmoto | ||
| Court |
Better to spend your time on Simpson's Paradox. Bottom line, strictly my own opinion, is that my friends invented, developed and built (with components from something like 11 countries) the entire motorcycle. Frankly, the answer to the AMERICAN MADE question is less important to me than the question. Thinking about "American Made". . . . I did something else silly yesterday . . . . knowing that Irwin Tools was getting ready to move all Vice-Grip production to China . . . I wandered about until I found a set of AMERICAN MADE Vise-Grips. There are "Made in China". "Made in USA with foreign content" . . . and (the one I was looking for) stamped MADE IN USA. In addition to finally scoring, I found a complete set of various sizes that came with an Irwin knife and at $21 for the entire kit. Call me patriotic.  | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Buying Rotax engines from Rotax is actually more expensive than building them here primarily due to the exchange rate. The problem is that Buell is currently not selling enough of the 1125 platform to justify the tooling, building, and staffing of a domestic plant. When the production numbers are sufficient, I could see Buell (HD) building a domestic engine plant. It's what Aprilia did. Without Rotax, Aprilia wouldn't exist today. Once Aprilia was known for quality and reliability (something prior to Aprilia they were NOT known for) people bought a sufficient number of models for them to justify bringing engine production in house. Additionally, keep in mind that people don't buy what they don't know. If Buell created their own suspension components rather than use a known player like Showa, there would be claims of inferior components, bad quality, poor performance, etc. even if they were exact replicas of what Showa produces. Same with the engine. Even though many in the press didn't like the XB engine, they knew where the engine had come from. I'm convinced that if the caliper said BREMBO, the ZTL2 system wouldn't get panned as often as it does. Once Buell has developed a reputation for reliable, powerful engines, they can bring the sourcing in house. | ||
| Redbuelljunkie |
I'm willing to wager a substantial amount of money that there is not a single motorcycle currently in production that does not contain "foreign content". The "made in" moniker should no longer apply to complex products like vehicles- outsourced vendor supply has changed that. To more accurately reflect the reality of global production, it would be more appropriate to describe products as "designed and assembled in" or "built by X company with parts manufactured in...". | ||
| Not_purple_s2 |
It's not truly American unless it was made from raw materials procured from North America, which are then processed, designed, and built by 100% pure blooded Native Americans. Otherwise it's a mix-breed mongrel just like most Americans. | ||
| Court |
No one in the Porsche Club seems very bothered that their Porsches (at least 60% of them) are not made in Germany. Porsche and Buell have made wise business decisions. Imagine if Buell were supporting 700 folks, instead of 200, and the market turned down? Porsche outsources a couple models. When their sales numbers, like all auto companies, declined they simply exercised their right to end that outsourcing contract. Porsche, like Buell, is continuing to make vehicles, at a profit and every single person at the factory is as fully employed as they were 2 years ago. Imagine if 50% of your work force knew they were out of work if sales declined? There is a classic Industrial Engineering experiment that was done on this very topic with an RV manufacturer. | ||
| Brapbrapbrap |
Well said Court. It is what it is. Having a Rotax is an honor, but for accuracy its NOT american made, but is a reality of the modern world. | ||
| Xnoahx |
An American made that bike happen. Hows that for you? | ||
| Georgehitch17 |
its pretty rare to have a complex product like a car or motorcycle that is all made in the same country. i doubt theres a car today that is made and assembled in the same country. BTW who cares what your friend thinks about your bike. | ||
| Slojon |
I remember when the switch failed on my Gals BMW. Was a 81-3 R65. Took switch off & had JAPAN on it. PISSED OFF! Only reason switch went bad was due to HARRO tank bag hitting switch on tight turns.... Not much is entirely made here in USA. This topic is folly. | ||
| Brapbrapbrap |
http://autos.aol.com/article/car-buying/buy-americ an/20090502001 Buying American: What About U.S.-Built Toyotas? American-Made Foreign Cars Split Divide by Kevin Ransom | AOL Autos Posted: 2 May 2009 | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I'd rather buy a US made foreign car and drive them to build more and larger factories to hire US workers after GM and Chrysler tube. Why reward poor management? | ||
| Bigschwerm |
Assembled 2 hours away from where i grew up in Wisconsin......always wanted a Buell and now i have one. Living my dream. Good nuff for me |
