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Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Monday, May 04, 2009 - 12:06 pm: | 
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Odd, I bought a car built in Ohio by American workers with a company based in California.
BTW, if you have a mutual fund, and IRA, or a 401(k) you ALREADY are investing in Toyota.
Also, never said that GM builds bad cars. Their RECENT offerings have been very good. Not so just 5-10 years ago.
(Message edited by ft_bstrd on May 04, 2009) |
Xl1200r
| | Posted on Monday, May 04, 2009 - 12:59 pm: |
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I think Toyota of North America is based in CA, if that's what you're getting to. Please don't claim yourself to be, or accuse me of being such a fool. Toyota of America is still Toyota.
Not that you would know what my 401(k) consists of, but like I said - invest in whoever you want - you gotta watch out for number one. But purchasing a foreign car built here does not do as much for the domestic ecomony and buying a domestic car built here.
(Message edited by xl1200r on May 04, 2009) |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Monday, May 04, 2009 - 01:04 pm: |
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Not that you would know what my 401(k) consists of
I DO know what Mutual Funds consist of. |
Xl1200r
| | Posted on Monday, May 04, 2009 - 01:35 pm: |
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I have nine funds here at work I can invest my 401(k) in - everything from emerging markets, to fixed income, to company stock. I was just saying you don't know what my investment mix looks like.
No more arguing. We disagree on this and I like you. |
Brapbrapbrap
| | Posted on Monday, May 04, 2009 - 01:49 pm: |
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WTF does your 401k have to do with the future of OUR country and its manufacturing capabilities as world player.
Very selfish. Good luck wit your 401k for in 100 years none of us are here. Leave your legacy in a bank account. |
Xl1200r
| | Posted on Monday, May 04, 2009 - 02:01 pm: |
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WTF does your 401k have to do with the future of OUR country and its manufacturing capabilities as world player.
Very selfish. Good luck wit your 401k for in 100 years none of us are here. Leave your legacy in a bank account.
Well, my point was that my 401(k) has little to do with it, but apprantley you missed that.
And securing my ability to survive and support myself on my own is selfish? What size log do you have shoved up your ass? |
Georgehitch17
| | Posted on Monday, May 04, 2009 - 02:09 pm: |
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this thread is funny as hell i cant believe you guys take your time to reply to each other its obvious that its is going no where. |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Monday, May 04, 2009 - 02:10 pm: |
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No argument. Not trying to be combative.
Most people don't know what is actually in the mutual funds they own. Many would be surprised that they invest in Nissan, Honda, and Toyota as part of their mutual funds. I would be willing to bet if you actually checked through the holdings in those funds the allocations would have the big three (from Japan) more so than the "big three".
I also don't want you to think that I am against American companies. I WANT domestic companies to succeed. I want to want to buy an American car. My next car probably will be American (provided GM doesn't collapse before I can pull the trigger). I am just so disgusted by the management of GM and Chrysler and the conduct of the UAW that it turns my stomach to give them one red cent. Add to that the fact that we have given them BILLIONS that they pissed away.
Part of me says that if you can't run a business to win in the US, you probably shouldn't exist.
Why is it that Toyota, Honda, and Nissan can make higher quality cars at higher profits with the same workers that GM and Chrysler use?
Their workers aren't miserable serfs living at the poverty level. I know several. They LOVE working for Nissan and Honda.
I want the American worker to succeed. I don't want their efforts squandered by either the Union or the corporation. I also don't want their failures squandering the efforts of other workers due to excess taxes, higher unemployment, and lower wages.
In the end, both GM and Chrysler may be owned by foreign corporations. Will they still be "American" cars when this happens? |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Monday, May 04, 2009 - 02:18 pm: |
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WTF does your 401k have to do with the future of OUR country and its manufacturing capabilities as world player.
Very selfish. Good luck wit your 401k for in 100 years none of us are here. Leave your legacy in a bank account.
I brought up the 401(k), so I guess I'll answer.
Mutual funds are the end of the tail of the process of building a business.
When a business owner starts a business, the goal is profit not to become an employer. Employment of others is a requirement for profit. It isn't the goal of business to be an employer.
When businesses need to grow, they invite others to be a part of that business through investment. The goal of these investors isn't to help a company employ people. The goal is profit.
When people invest in mutual funds, IRAs, and 401(k)s, the goal isn't to help a company employ people. The goal is profit.
When a worker clocks in for an employer, the goal isn't employment. The goal is profit.
Seeking profit isn't "selfish". It's capitalism. I don't want to live in a country governed by mandated selflessness. |
Georgehitch17
| | Posted on Monday, May 04, 2009 - 02:18 pm: |
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BTW Toyota has already asked Their government for a financial aid and if things dont pick up theres a big possibility Honda and Mazda will need help also. But of course the media doesnt talk about the almighty foreign car company just everything US companies do wrong. |
Xl1200r
| | Posted on Monday, May 04, 2009 - 02:23 pm: |
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I am just so disgusted by the management of GM and Chrysler and the conduct of the UAW that it turns my stomach to give them one red cent. Add to that the fact that we have given them BILLIONS that they pissed away.
The same things go throgh my head, can't fault you there. Sometimes it almost seems worth it to let them go bankrupt in hopes that they come back a little smarter and without so much Union lead to pull them under.
Their workers aren't miserable serfs living at the poverty level. I know several. They LOVE working for Nissan and Honda.
That *could* have a lot to do with the relationship between the Union and the Company, and between the Company and worker. The UAW's relationship with the Big Three has been combative for so long that I wouldn't be surprised if most line works didn't like the Company merely because that's how everyone else feels. Peer pressure is a powerful thing.
In the end, both GM and Chrysler may be owned by foreign corporations. Will they still be "American" cars when this happens?
That is an intersting question isn't it. I'm not sure how I'll decide that one - it might have a lot to do with what kind of relationship it is and with whom. I've been a long-lived GM guy forever, but I'll buy a Ford if it's my only domestic choice.
No argument. Not trying to be combative.
Didn't sya you were, just don't want it to get there. Seems to be a lot of hot tempers in the 1125 section lately. |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Monday, May 04, 2009 - 02:24 pm: |
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I wouldn't have as much of a problem with GM and Chrysler receiving help if it didn't go into a dark hole.
Weren't we trying to prevent their bankruptcy with the government aid?
Where are we now?
If Toyota, Honda, and Mazda piss away the money they receive, I will be just as critical. |
Xl1200r
| | Posted on Monday, May 04, 2009 - 02:35 pm: |
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I'm with you 100%. I was all for the the first set of loans, as I was convinced GM could turn it around and at least survive long enough to get back into a good market again. When they came back asking for more, I wasn't as willing. I would hate to see them die - though I or anyone I know works for them, I have some personal pride in what they make. But like you said, if you're an American company operating in America and you can't survive, then maybe you shouldn't.
I try to ignore Chrysler right now. I am NOT happy about the Fiat partnership. Nothing against Fiat, but I don't like that my tax dollars are buying a U.S. distribution channel for the Italians. |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Monday, May 04, 2009 - 03:01 pm: |
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Sometimes when you manage your affairs poorly, you have to turn to a sugar daddy for security.
Sometimes the sugar daddy isn't very nice and you get pimped out.
I'd bet we'll see Chrysler walking the streets for Fiat soon.
Then again, we didn't complain that much when Chrysler was bought by MB. |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Monday, May 04, 2009 - 03:03 pm: |
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Seems to be a lot of hot tempers in the 1125 section lately.
I am currently bikeless, so I have the motorcycle equivalent of "chowder build-up".  |
Xl1200r
| | Posted on Monday, May 04, 2009 - 03:05 pm: |
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Well get on it, brother. If you feel like making the drive, you're more than welcome to rock the girlfriend's Ninja 250 for a few days  |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Monday, May 04, 2009 - 03:25 pm: |
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Didn't know they put wheels on suppositories. Who knew? 
I really want your CR.
It's even the right color. Were you the one who came down for Buelltoberfest last year? |
Xl1200r
| | Posted on Monday, May 04, 2009 - 03:28 pm: |
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Nope, wasn't me. |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Monday, May 04, 2009 - 09:28 pm: |
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It was stupendous. I WANT one! |
Xl1200r
| | Posted on Monday, May 04, 2009 - 09:42 pm: |
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You're bikeless at the moment. Am I the only one seeing the connection? |
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