| Author | Message | ||
     Bueller_bjorn |
The boiling fuel was never a safety concern for me i just want better performance and no fumes filling my garage. so to me who cares about these stats on gasolines explosive characteristics, its still an issue regarding performance IMO. | ||
| Court |
I'd like to plot boiling fuel occurances by geography. I think it has little to do with temperature and much to do with partial pressures. Actually . . . I should say "I'd be interested to know" not "I think". Something just doesn't add up and I'm wandering if geographic fuel formulas play a role. | ||
| Blake |
If fumes are filling your garage, there is a problem and you need to inform your dealer of the issue immediately. | ||
| Bueller_bjorn |
I already contacted my dealer when i dropped off for service and nothing was done nor was i even given an explanation | ||
| Chevycummins |
My bike was at the dealer for 14 days while they were working on the problem. The day they called me to come and pick it up they informed me that it was normal. Its not normal to me, and I don't like it. I also had fuel pressure problems 1 time that I know was linked the the hot gas. I took care of the matter myself and no longer have gas fumes to deal with. | ||
| Unibear12r |
Funny how everybody seemed to think that when Buell took the fan run time limitation on shutdown off the ecm program it was for battery discharge. Now that the fan limit is by coolant temp/battery voltage only the fans will run longer and the fuel pump does not need to run as long after shutdown. But I'd bet the fans use more juice than the pump after shutdown, not less. The electrical problem was something else. I'd say Buell hears the sound of fuel boiling. Good first move! So is the next step a couple of ( very small!) plastic changes? Thank you Elves! | ||
| Blake |
Bjorn, Did you drop the bike off for service or to have a problem resolved? If you willing to accept the situation, it is unfortunate, but your dealer may do so as well. HOwever, if you inform your dealer that it is an entirely unacceptable problem and that you are asking that it be resolved, what will he say? Sometimes it is up to us customers to drive a point home if we really want it addressed. If it were me, I'd be taking the bike in for the problem and as an aside mention that while they are fixing the problem, they can maybe take care of the service too. See the difference? | ||
| Blake |
"I also had fuel pressure problems 1 time that I know was linked the the hot gas. " If your fuel tank is pressurizing, you have a faulty venting system in need of repair/rework. | ||
| Chevycummins |
My bike went in for the hot gas, gas drip on the muffler from the vent and the gas fume problem. I think the bike only had like 10miles on it at that time. Also I noted to them that I could hear the fuel pump turn on and go off after the bike had been shut off. I had many calls to Buell made by myself because the dealer was always waiting on Buell to tell them what to do. After 14 days I got nowhere with them and it was considered normal. I think after a few more people gripe about the problems Buell will do something. | ||
| Chevycummins |
Blake, if I remember correct the code was a 193 and was high fuel pressure? It set the code right after a long ride (40miles) and the gas was boiling in the tank when I got home. That was the time it was boiling so intense that the hissing from the vent hose could be heard from 30ft away. It sounded like a screw was in the tire, it was that loud. I restarted the bike to see what would happen and the bike started and the ses light came on and the idle was rough and surging. It took over 15min for the hissing to stop. The gas was really hot. | ||
| Blake |
What temperature was the gas? | ||
| C4bird |
I've had the same experience with lots of boiling and hissing so loud it can heard it from quite a was away. Blake, not sure on the exact temp, but you couldn't put your hand on the tank near the rear header for more than a second before it was to hot. I have since put the heat reflective tape on the inside and bottom of the frame on that side, still need to test out though. | ||
| Blake |
That would likely put the outer surface near the header at around 120oF? I'm basing that estimate on the fact that humans feel pain when our skin temperature reaches 112oF. (Message edited by blake on May 03, 2008) | ||
| Chevycummins |
Blake, I did not check the temp of the frame or gas at that time but do know it was hotter than 120degrees other times I checked it. It also seemed to boil more intense and make more fumes when the tank was full. It just took longer to heat up the gas to get it to the boiling point. I don't disagree that different gas will boil at different points but, I have no more problems with it now that the inside of the frame has been insulated and the rear exhaust pipe is heat wrapped. The frame still gets warm but not hot. No more boil sound, no more gas smell, no more fuel pressure codes and rough unstable idle. I guess all I can say is it worked for me. | ||
| Blake |
How do you know that the gas was hotter than 120oF? | ||
| Chevycummins |
Well I guess that was an assumption that I made because the frame was hotter that 120 so since the fuel is in the frame I thought it would be close to the same temp. The frame temp at the coolest part near the top if I remember right was almost 140 when checked with my inferred temp gauge. The bottom was even hotter near the exhaust. I know that the inferred gauge have some accuracy issues depending on the color of the surface being tested. I also know that the frame is much cooler now and the gas makes no noise now when shut off. I wish there was a way to show people how much difference the wrapped exhaust pipe made. Sounds like you and others don't believe how hot the frame on these bikes get under the right conditions. I would love to have another bike that is totally stock to go riding with me to see how much difference in the frame temp there is under the exact same conditions. I'll say it again, no more boiling gas or gas fumes. That is all I know. | ||
| Dtx |
I picked up some header wrap today. For $15 bucks it will be a fun little project. | ||
| Chevycummins |
Dtx, Your fun and my fun must be two different things! It fun after its done. The wrap kit I used was for a turbo. It cost me $95 and $30 in diesel to pick it up. It was well worth the money to not have to do it two times. I had to lower the engine out of the frame to get the wrapped pipe back in. Good luck. | ||
| Dtx |
Well, I don't know what this means, but I kinda have a feeling all these "different" types of gasoline could be the source of this issue. There are so many variables in gas now. Ethanol, additives, oxygenated 'winter' time gas...I don't know what it all means, but I do know locally this 15% ethanol stuff is giving lots of people fits (mostly in the MPG dept.) Last night I did something I have NEVER done before...I bought Sinclair gas. Wanted to try something different. I don't know why I have never used Sinclair before, but I did this time. (Probably because Quik Trips are so nice, fast, clean and friendly.) Anyway, I just got back from a ride where the bike got good and warm. There is no fuel smell, no apparent boiling this time...nothing. Well, the bike runs like a bat outta hell, though! I think from here on out, I'm putting Sinclair gas in. Forget this QT stuff with 15% ethanol. | ||
| Helicon |
Alright, let me know what you think ...... Tech told me today that the 1125R needs to be run above 5000 rpm to keep the fuel burning in the fuel rail or there will be excess fuel which can lead to fuel odor. I tried it out ... and put the bike in the garage directly after riding. I still noticed a fuel smell, but not as bad as before and did not stink up the house. Unknown if keeping the rpms above 5000 rpm or the ecm reflash or the fact that the temp was only 50 degrees were affecting the smell. Or maybe all of the above. | ||
| Diablo1 |
Tech told me today that the 1125R needs to be run above 5000 rpm to keep the fuel burning in the fuel rail or there will be excess fuel which can lead to fuel odor. That advice sounds ridiculous. Is he telling you that you must rev the bike up and hold it at 5,000 rpm while simultaneously hitting the kill button? It makes no sense.} | ||
| Bobup |
"Tech told me today that the 1125R needs to be run above 5000 rpm to keep the fuel burning in the fuel rail " fuel is never "burning" in the fuel rail...it is burned in the combustion chamber...this is how we get power to the crank, etc. your tech needs to go back to small engine repair class IMHO | ||
| Chevycummins |
I have never used any ethanol gas in my bike and still had the problem. Just recently I have seen some lean running problems from the ethanol blends in this area. They were all cars and are burning up the valves and heads. I think I will stay far away from the ethanol fuels. | ||
| Ccryder |
At least in TN you can't find any gas without Ethanol. | ||
| Hayabusa |
I talked to Buell directly and they told me that the boiling fuel is not an issue...I asked three times just to make sure I heard them clearly. Needless to say my gas still boils and the fuel light came on at 75 miles today. I am glad that a 1968 GTO gets better fuel economy than my bike. I'll rephrase, the bike gets good gas mileage it just evaporates the fuel in the tank when I ride. If anyone has connections at Buell please get on this problem!! My dealer has no answer and apparently neither does Buell. I can't understand how some bikes boil fuel and some don't. I get that fuels are different and that probably is part of the issue...but the frame does get very hot once you get below 40 mph. Something needs to be done the cut the heat off the headers or create better air flow at the back of the motor. Titanium headers might do the trick or some sort of fan in the rear of the engine. I cannot justify buying header wrap for a new bike that costs more than most of the liter bikes out there. I love ridding the bike I just want it to work like I expect a 12K bike to work. Sorry for venting.... | ||
| Blake |
Something is very much wrong with your 1125R. It should not be running or behaving as you say, period. Take it to your dealer and in a professional unimpassioned tone demand that it be fixed. That's all. There's nothing else that need be done. It's a matter of doing what is needed. | ||
| Hayabusa |
The bike has been to the dealer and they called Buell who told them that it isn't a problem. So I called Buell and they said the same thing. There are enough of us here who are boiling fuel to warrant some sort of solution. If Buell can't give the dealer an answer how can we expect the dealer tech's to fix the problem? Why are we the owners working to find ways to correct the problem rather than the engineers who designed the bike. All the owners who have posted under this thread and the fuel smell thread all are boiling fuel and venting the evaporating vapors...this is not an isolated issue. We all can see the the rear header is heating up the frame which in turn heats up the fuel and the fuel is acting like sponge and soaking up all the heat. Unfortunately once the fuel gets hot the only way to cool it is add in new fuel or shut the bike down and get it out of the sun. These are not fair solutions. Buell has acknowledged that the bike boils fuel...they told me that it is normal. It doesn't sound like they are working on a fix for the problem. Disappointing.... | ||
| Rdmwc |
could this heating of the fuel, increasing the evaporation, be the reason why so many of us are getting such low milage? you guys that wrapped the header and insulated the frame, did you see increased milage? or more miles till yur low fuel light comes on? | ||
| Kravfighter |
I use Shell, Sinclair, or BP gas and have not had any boiling fuel issues. Just my .10 | ||
| Blake |
A little bubbling fuel is not a problem. As has been revealed before, some conponents of gasoline begin to boil as low as 80oF. But what you describe is something which lies far outside the limits of acceptable fuel evaporation and heating of the frame/fuel-tank. There is thus something wrong with your 1125R. Or your description is not as accurate as I am led to believe. If your descriptions are accurate, your 1125R should not be running or behaving as you say, period. If that is the case, then you need to take it to your dealer and in a professional unimpassioned tone describe the problem and why it is absolutely entirely unacceptable, and demand that it be fixed. That's all. There's nothing else that need be done. It's a matter of doing what is needed. It is your motorcycle and it is up to you to see that it gets proper attention to get any problem resolved. If they try to tell you that your problem is normal, tell them they are fool of shit and invite them to observe and document that your frame is 140oF scalding hot at its coolest point and that fuel is boiling off at an alarming rate. Send me a PM and tell me who it is at your dealership (and what dealership) that is telling you that a 140oF scalding hot frame is "normal", and that fuel boiling so fiercely that it fills a house with fumes is "normal". I want to talk to such a person. I'd also like to know to whom you talked at "Buell directly." FYI: Customer service are not Buell employees. They work for Harley-Davidson. Yes, that is a glaringly problematic situation. If you don't get satisfaction from Mr. Service manager, then take the problem to the owner of the dealership. Do NOT leave the shop until you have obtained a committment from the dealership to fix your bike. (Message edited by blake on May 06, 2008) (Message edited by blake on May 06, 2008) |
