| Author |
Message |
    
Old_man
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 12:29 am: | 
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Baggermike,
I use Mobil 1 15W50 - not specifically labeled for cycles - an engine is an engine, I don't think it makes a difference.
I can get Mobil 1 at any of the national chain parts stores and I usually buy it at Wal Mart in a large container [4 or 5qt. - which size I don't remember] for a better price than the 1 qt. size. |
Baggermike
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 12:53 am: |
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I have wonderd about oil companies labeling there regular car oil as motorcycle oil, now harley say's to use diesel engine oil if you need it and can not find motorcycle oil so I think there is a difference in oil, so to be safe I buy motorcycle oil and can not find mobil 1 any were around the auto parts stores around here like pep boy's and auto zone plus wallmart, so I go to pep boy's and get synthetic oil which is Lucas and no other brand in synthetic can be found. mike |
Fresnobuell
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 12:58 am: |
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I don't care how an oil is derived. My only concern is how it performs.
+1 Blake. I tried to say the same thing, just that mine wasn't as eloquent |
Fresnobuell
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 01:01 am: |
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I thought that motorcycle oil that lubes the motor and tranny had a higher shear factor due to the tranny, which tends to reduce viscosity thru shearing. Speculation on my part only...
If this is true, then it would be safe to run auto oil in the XBs as they have a separate reservoir for the tranny/clutch? Might we have to be more careful in our 1125r as now the engine oil services everything?
(Message edited by fresnobuell on February 13, 2008) |
Rich
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 06:12 am: |
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Oil?
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/ |
Ccryder
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 06:36 am: |
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My only caution on any oil where the same oil is used in the tranny and engine is....... stay away from any that has the "energy conserving" symbol on the back. It contains friction modifiers that may affect your clutch.
In the XB/ tuber days we didn't have to worry about that since our transmission was separate from our engine oil (or at least we hoped :+|)
Time4work
Neil S.
p.s. See there is something to be learned from riding other makes. |
Baggermike
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 11:46 am: |
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OK NOW I AM ALL CONFUSED TO WHAT OIL I SHOULD USE? |
Spectrum
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 11:56 am: |
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I think the point is if your doing more frequent oil changes than the manufacture recommends, as most of us do, any quality diesel rated oil in the right viscosity range will do.
Neal's point is valid but as long as your using a motorcycle oil the transmission should not be an issue. If your using an automotive oil then yes friction modifiers may be of concern.
I use synthetics such as Mobil-1 and Amsoil because I believe they have superior lubrication and heat resistance qualities. But again unless your running extended drain intervals these are not really necessary.
I change my oil every 2500 miles. Based on this synthetics are not really necessary. But I don't mind spending the extra money for the piece of mind that my engine has the best protection possible.
(Message edited by Spectrum on February 13, 2008) |
Baggermike
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 12:22 pm: |
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Spectrum I like Mobil 1 but for some reason it is not found around were I live, and pep boys is two miles away and carries regular motorcycle oil and the lucas 20W-50 synthetic oil that I posted the specs on, but looking at bob the oil guy and the air bubbles that show up and remembering my friends sportster having bubbles in his oil I think it is important to have an oil that does not do this, so do I build one of those spinning gear things to test oil, or use a blender that I can get cheap at a yard sale? if I do I can see for myself which is better. What do you guys think about using a blender to see if it would be good for testing the oil? |
Fresnobuell
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 12:50 pm: |
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Bagger--see the Amsoil test. They actually do a foam test on the oils. Lucas did not have any foaming issues.
http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2156.pdf |
Spectrum
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 01:57 pm: |
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Great idea Fresno I'm always impressed how thoughtful and helpful folks on Bad Web are. I just placed an order so the proffered customer discounted price is $7.00 a quart on the MCV SAE 20W-50 Synthetic Motorcycle Oil. |
Baggermike
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 02:24 pm: |
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Fresno I did see that info and that is not the oil I am using, it is a racing car oil pure synthetic and was reading the back and seen the that it said this, quote ( Controls heat and wear in high performance heavy duty motorcycles, especially Harley Davidson's ) so being easy to get I started using it after 1000 miles. I also was on the bob the oil guys website and showed some foaming issues with lucas additives, so I think I will add some in a blender and see what happens. I had a friend that drove me crazy about amsoil and he went on and on about how good it is and was going to be a preferd customer but never got the oil, plus all he did was complain and had to drop him as a friend he was wasting so much of my time and also a bad influence to my son. |
Baggermike
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 02:59 pm: |
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Ok put lucas oil in blender foamed up, 15 minutes later starting to show non foam oil in bottom of glass, I will wait now to the oil is bubble free and test another oil and write down my results. |
Baggermike
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 06:57 pm: |
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Ok here is my research so far Lucas synthetic 20w-50 oil put in blender at high speed after 15 minutes started to see clear oil on the bottom of class and dropped 1/4". and became totally clear in 1 hour 45 minutes. next oil castrol 4T 20w-50 regular motorcycle oil put in blender at high speed and has been 3 hours and still looks like coffee but has dropped 1/8" in glass. no more oil to test but will buy more oil and test using this method. |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 09:24 pm: |
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Fres,
No soliciting oil sales, please. Thanks. |
Fresnobuell
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 09:49 pm: |
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Sorry, just offering to help fellow badwebbers. Seemed like a good idea. |
Baggermike
| | Posted on Thursday, February 14, 2008 - 12:41 am: |
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Ok it is now 12:30 am and the castrol oil is still looking like coffee but see something else on the top layer like 3/16 of something, will see in the morning how it looks. Mike |
Baggermike
| | Posted on Thursday, February 14, 2008 - 11:55 am: |
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The Castrol oil still looks like coffee and looks like there is a separated layer in the glass and has only dropped 1/8" and Lucas dropped 1/4" after blending and letting sit, and lucas turned back to it original state in less than two hours. Mike |
Fresnobuell
| | Posted on Thursday, February 14, 2008 - 09:12 pm: |
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The XL line of Amsoil products are Group III, all other Amsoil motor oil products are Group IV just like Mobil-1.
Email from Amsoil tech:
Harlan,
Actually our XL series oils are produced from group IV 100% synthetic stock, along with all of our oils. The only non Group IV engine oil that we produce is “PCO” which is a diesel oil and that is a synthetic blend. In regards to your questions about what options you have in the 20weight motor oils you can either use the 5w-20 “XLM” oil or you can use the “ASM” 0w-20 synthetic oil. If you have any further questions please feel free to email us further.
----------------------------------
Brandon Shelley
AMSOIL Technical Service
(T) 715-399-8324
(E) bshelley@amsoil.com |
Slypiranna
| | Posted on Thursday, February 14, 2008 - 10:22 pm: |
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As far as Amsoil is concerned...I PERSONALLY (wife along and involved too) had the pleasure and q/a experience with a 30+ year veteran of that company this week @ the Fl State Fair in great detail...ONE OF THE BEST REPS OF ANY COMPANY THAT I'VE EVER HAD THE PLEASURE OF COMMUNICATING WITH ON THIS SUBJECT AND THAT OF OTHERS...AND OR/JUST GETTING TO KNOW ON A PERSONAL LEVEL...TRUE HANDSHAKE AND GOOD OLD SCHOOL KIND OF A GUY, THANK YOU AGAIN AND MY WIFE SENDS HER APPRECIATION AS WELL! YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE!...and while I will not divulge what knowledge I've gained, I will pass along this...ALMOST ALL preaching here are very wrong in their recommendations and or beliefs as being true AND fact based KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT THEY ARE TYPING ABOUT...AS I PLAINLY STATED WITHIN THIS TOPIC...IT IS FAR BEYOUND THE SCOPE OF THIS WEBSITE... The 20-50w for and as labeled on the bottle (amsoil) is certified and well above the criteria required for THIS Rotax/Buell engine/clutch and trans, let alone many others...Not too meantion that 1k-2k or well and way beyound the time you might loose your own belief or nerve...good for many, many K's beyound before deemed "used" up. As usual, be careful what you believe from someone other than the horse's mouth...not that of an internet non owner (wish or wannabe that has not one damn thing better to do than muddy up "here")...or worse (?, as I'm beginning to wonder on this one) yet, adverti$ment affiliation! Buell's, as well as Harley's names and trademarks are clearly printed on that bottle of Amsoil as a writeoff/recommendation/yes, up & down in a vertical motion...concerning warranty or recommendation. Any responses to anything written herein are noting more than a gamble on bitting on that "horse's" rear end...Let us get back to this New Buell 1125R THAT WE ALL WISHED FOR way BACK WHEN? Pretty Please? If the oil has the certs, it is ok to use it...and USE your eyes and BRAIN on reading the back of the bottle for the recommended certs! I hope this is enuff said. |
Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, February 14, 2008 - 11:14 pm: |
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I know Fres. We just have to be rigorous in defending the policy, one crack in our guard and the hucksters will start to seep into the place. 
Do you sell Amsoil? |
Spectrum
| | Posted on Thursday, February 14, 2008 - 11:21 pm: |
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Fresno my comments about the XL line of product being group III came from one of Amsoil's distributor website. My understanding is that it does have group IV (PAO) base stock in it, but it also has mineral base stock as well which would mean it is not a true Group IV oil. In other words its not 100% Group IV base stock. I do however believe it does meet european standards and is certified as synthetic. I do agree this does lead to some confusion as to wheather it is a Group III or Group IV product.
See the charts in this link: "In the case of the Amsoil XL oils, Amsoil purchases the highest quality Group III base stock available. This is one of the reasons it performs so well."
http://www.technilube.com/faqs_info/synth_diff.php
Also the information on this website is dated (2003) so sounds like it might note reflect their current XL product.
(Message edited by spectrum on February 15, 2008) |
Fresnobuell
| | Posted on Friday, February 15, 2008 - 12:53 am: |
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Blake, no I don't sell it. I just became a preferred customer (wholesale pricing per Amsoil) and figured I could let those interested in the product try it relatively easy. No profit in it for me. I will respect your wishes. No biggie either way. |
Blake
| | Posted on Friday, February 15, 2008 - 08:36 am: |
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I know that the folks at Cycle Rama are big fans of Amsoil, which says a lot. |
Blake
| | Posted on Friday, February 15, 2008 - 08:38 am: |
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As to group III or IV, who cares if the performance is there, then what does it matter? |
Spectrum
| | Posted on Friday, February 15, 2008 - 09:09 am: |
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I agree the group III Group IV thing is a non issue for me. Amsoil makes great products with proven performance. I've been using their synthetic products since 1989. While there may be some confusing or possible outdated information floating around out there, in general Amsoil is very forth coming in providing data and information about their products. In my opinion Amsoil is more forth coming in disclosing product information and data to support their claims than any of their competitors. They also stand behind their products.
For example if anyone tells you using Amsoil products will void your vehicle warranty. Simple contact Amsoil customer service and they will provide assistance and show legal proof that using Amsoil is your legal right and it meets or exceeds legal requirements for OEM specifications. I have been down this road before and Amsoil quickly helped me correct the situation.
(Message edited by spectrum on February 15, 2008) |
Fresnobuell
| | Posted on Friday, February 15, 2008 - 02:28 pm: |
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As to group III or IV, who cares if the performance is there, then what does it matter?
I agree 100%. But there is also some merit in trying to curb the bad info floating around....I am sure to some people, the fact that a certain oil is Group III would be a deal breaker--even if the oil exceeds all OEM specs.
Heck, the genesis of my posted email to Amsoil was because I was curious about the XL series possibly being Group III--mostly because I just purchased a case AND there is no extensive test on the XL series like the moto oil test (as far as I know.)
(Message edited by fresnobuell on February 15, 2008) |
Baggermike
| | Posted on Friday, February 15, 2008 - 03:14 pm: |
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The Castrol oil that I put in the blender two days ago is still looking like coffee with a separate layer of something, I have no idea what this means but the Lucas 20w-50 synthetic oil only took 1.45 hours to turn to clear and Castrol has been sitting for two days and does not look good. I would like to do this to amsoil if I can find it. Mike |
Fresnobuell
| | Posted on Friday, February 15, 2008 - 04:48 pm: |
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Mike, I have a case coming as soon as I can confirm my buddy's 'Busa oil requirements. Do you want me to send a quart to you or is that too much of a pain? |
Baggermike
| | Posted on Friday, February 15, 2008 - 05:09 pm: |
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Thanks Fresno but I wrote to them yesterday to see about getting it and will see if they get back to me, I got three mikes to maintain so maybe if it is that good I should by it by the case, there study did not include the oil I am using now and if they do not right back then I will not use there product. My Nephew said that auto zone has Mobil 1 but I also change the oil allot and think any good synthetic oil will do. I think this is like how to break in a motor and you get many different opinions, and I think if the motor is not broken in properly it will make for dirty oil and that causes wear to, I hope they come out with a big bore kit next winter then I can see how I did breaking in the motor and if I did it right. Mike |
Blake
| | Posted on Friday, February 15, 2008 - 07:49 pm: |
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Amsoil provides a LOT of information. Much of it presented in dubious fashion; The above "report" includes such tactics. For instance, adjusting the scale of charts to artificially magnify contrasting data/performance and neglecting to report sample sizes and statistical parameters. Test data absent the most basic statistical characterizations (sample size, control, max, mean, min., variance, etc) is virtually meaningless. An engineer would be fired if he/she tried to pan that kind of report off to support a particular agenda. It's typical marketing slick willy tactics and Amsoil unfortunately employs them often.
I have no doubt that the oil is good. I just don't like the rancid slick-willy marketing tactics. |
Baggermike
| | Posted on Friday, February 15, 2008 - 07:59 pm: |
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Must be why they have not contacted me? I told them I am using Lucas Racing Synthetic Oil and think it might have scared them off and be why they have not contacted me because they can not beet it. Mike |
Old_man
| | Posted on Friday, February 15, 2008 - 08:22 pm: |
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A former dirt riding buddy of mine was an Amsoil distributer.
I bought the oil and grease from him and was very satisfied with it.
But I can get the Mobil 1 just about anywhere, like it, so that's what I use. |
