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Doerman
| | Posted on Friday, January 11, 2008 - 09:18 pm: | 
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Fresno...
With 1400 miles on mine and having experienced early quirks like you are now, I can attest that mine is 100% at this point.
Asbjorn |
Fresnobuell
| | Posted on Friday, January 11, 2008 - 09:29 pm: |
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Doerman...VERY glad to hear that. I was thinking that as things loosen up in the motor that these quirks will cease.
The 3-4 times that it has died, I wasn't in any precarious position traffic-wise thankfully. And I am really glad that you can restart this bike in gear--makes it just an inconvenience rather than a real PITA.
1,400 miles, you animal. Good job! |
Doerman
| | Posted on Friday, January 11, 2008 - 10:46 pm: |
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He he.
The weekend is coming up.. Can you say Angeles Crest, - Forrest, Tujunga,
and repeat and enjoy?
I really love this bike!
And that's prolly pretty obvious. I used it for commuting today. Did about 150 miles of errands around LA and I found it to be very agreeable in the different (fast and slow and lane splitting) LA riding conditions.
Better at it than my previous BMW as a matter of fact. To be useful for slow traffic/lanesplitting the fueling has to be perfect and predictable. It was. |
Zac4mac
| | Posted on Saturday, January 12, 2008 - 04:14 pm: |
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Wish I had your weather, Asbjorn.
Loretta passed the 1k mark today, sitting with 1044 miles and getting ready to use one of the NEW oil filters I just picked up.
She's been a real good girl, I think she deserves Syn3.
Tomorrow thru tuesday look like good weather, for here.
Felt a lot warmer than the 44˚ it said, in my black squid suit.
She is still getting smoother, maybe I'll wait for the Syn3.
I'll decide when I look at this oil.
Z |
Buellnick
| | Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 12:47 am: |
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Go Synthetic... Better Lube and Lasts Longer... also better for the environment and for energy independence. Better protection through chemistry.
STARTING ISSUES... No apparent technical problems or issues found. However, the 1125r is starting consistently now... even after lots of shut-downs and start-ups. HAL must be learning...
N |
Josh_
| | Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 12:55 am: |
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Started last night in a 33 degree garage at the push of a button. Started to day at 43deg and immediately went for a ride with no issues.
I did notice tho that if you blip the throttle at idle you can kill it pretty easy, and I still stalled it once today. Do not take off w/o throttle. |
Zac4mac
| | Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 06:05 am: |
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I changed the oil at 500 miles, and it was filthy, as expected.
I washed out the filter and filled her back up with HD 20-50 dino.
What I dumped out yesterday had a tiny bit of steel dust on the magnet plug, very fine, like soot.
If there had been more on the magnet, I'd have gone dino again.
Looked good tho, so I put 3 qts of Syn3 in with the fresh filter.
Made my notes in the back of the manual and called it good.
Z |
Vagelis46
| | Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 09:39 am: |
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Usually high performance motors prefer less viscous oils, like 10W-40.
I think the Syn3 is 20W-50. Are you sure it is OK, since it is winter ? |
Zac4mac
| | Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 10:15 am: |
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Not really "sure" of anything at this point.
One of the main reasons I'm spending so much time here.
Smoother learning curve with so many contributing.
Seems to be fine so far.
Mornings are quite cold, but the bike is garaged overnight and kept above freezing(45-50˚F).
When I get ready to go home, it's in the 40s at least.
Being water cooled, it runs steady at 164-170˚F.
Z |
Buellnick
| | Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 10:17 am: |
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SYN3 is the only synthetic HD has and thats some dealers will ONLY put in HD oil during dealer service.
HD needs to come out with a "thinner" synthetic now that its making high performance and precision machined motors. Probably a good topic for a different thread.
I told the local dealer, I would be bring in my own (non-HD) brand and weight of oil for the first oil change and they said ok. Some dealers refuse. I too believe 20w-50 is too thick for this kind of motor, especially in the winter months. If your bike is garage kept and the bike never has to make a cold start, 20W-50 is ok but not my first choice during winter.
The relationship to this thread is obvious... Engines starts area easier with lower weight oil - especially in the cold.
(Message edited by buellnick on January 13, 2008) |
Vagelis46
| | Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 10:30 am: |
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Is the 20W-50 better for the XB ??
I put 0W-30 Castrol Edge on the XB12, 3 days ago and I can definately say that the bike accelerates noticably better. Also the cooling fan never comes on, even after I switch the bike off. So why not 0W-30 for the HD engine of the XB??
Is oil consumption the reason people go for 20W-50 for these motors, or "tradition ? |
Jpfive
| | Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 11:55 am: |
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Zac,
When you finished the change, what did the oil measure? Three quarts with filter is the hard specification now. I'm curious where that puts the oil on the dipstick. I'm also curious as to where that puts it using the procedure in the manual (apparently incorrect) with the bike on the sidestand?
Jack |
Zac4mac
| | Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 12:42 pm: |
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Haven't done a "good check" yet.
I spilled some, maybe a quarter cup, of the 3 quarts.
Rode it a bit, let it idle for 3 minutes, shut it off and got distracted with something else, probably the right hand mirror I've been destroying.
Realized what I wasn't doing and checked after 4 minutes.
Just hit the tip.
So, I'm waiting to take it out today and try again to get a "good check".
how the heck do you make strikeouts?
Z
(Message edited by zac4mac on January 13, 2008) |
Mainstreamer
| | Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 11:27 pm: |
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I recall reading an article that about the the high mileage oils,0W-XX and 5W-XX used by mfg to improve CAFE rating. These oils Do Not have the same additive package as 10W and up. As I recall it was the wear inhibitors that were missing.
These oils are good for performance but not good for extended engine life... as I recall. Before using anything less then 10W I'd do a lot of research.
Hopefully someone with more knowledge will chime in. |
Zac4mac
| | Posted on Monday, January 14, 2008 - 06:47 am: |
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I have used 10W-40 but never any lower.
20W-50 has been a very good all-around oil.
I still tend to go with 50 or 60 straight weight in my Shovel if the Summer is really hot.
I think I ran 60 one Summer here, ran it always in the Summer when I lived in San Diego.
Didn't get a chance to ride yesterday, I was too busy taking stuff apart.
So I'm still not positive where my oil level is.
I WILL get her out this afternoon.
Z |
Rfischer
| | Posted on Monday, January 14, 2008 - 10:39 am: |
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Ran nothing but 0W-30 in a highly modified street/track-day toy 'Subie STi for 20,000 mi. Sold it to a Fort Drum helo pilot who's continued the abuse, and the 0W-30, for the past 2 1/2 years. No issues to date. Also ran it in my S1 racebike with 84" S&S motor. No oil-related failures. Don't think the Helicon will be any different. BTW, mfr's testing has shown a 2% hp gain with 0W-30 synthetic over 10W-30 conventional oils. OEM spec. oil for M-B AMG, Porsche, 'Vette, etc.
Enjoy the new rides folks! 
(Message edited by rfischer on January 14, 2008) |
Buellnick
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 01:39 pm: |
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Update: Starting is getting better by the day. Now I have 300+mi. with no issues. Problem solved? Well maybe... I have to run some tests under a variety of starting conditions.
Oil: I would stick with the specified weight range 10W40 and up (40/50 oils), particularly if the bike is for the street and under warranty. Lots to choose from out there many of them very good including AMSOIL, MOTUL, MOBIL1, and SYN3.
(Message edited by Buellnick on January 15, 2008) |
Doerman
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 02:02 pm: |
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Good to hear Nick.
I can highly recommend the starting procedure that Ebear outlined. Works every time for me:
This is absolutely the norm with the Rotax motors. They are VERY sensitive to the correct startup procedure. When starting my Tuono you must set the coldstart lever to the correct spot hit the start button and do not allow the bike to stall in the first few minutes.This means DONT blip the throttle,dont attempt to drive away and dont shut down before its warm!If I allow the motor to run untill it reaches 160-172F it will run flawlessly with no throat clearing...(no hesitations,hiccups or run-ons).Any attempt to drive away before warm will cause stalling and re-start problems.These are cold-blooded motors , totally UNLIKE what your used to with your air-cooled Buells.It is absolutely mandatory you warm up properly!
Only difference is that the 1125R does not have a coldstart lever (and does not need one).
Simply this.. Thumb the starter. Put your gear on while it's sitting there warming up. Once you are all geared up the motor will be at operating temps also and ready to perform.
Asbjorn |
Vagelis46
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 02:42 pm: |
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I thought that a motor running at idle for 3-5 minutes is bad for the motor. Not enought oil pressure ??
The best warming up procedure is on the road by keeping rpm and throttle, low.
I never heard these issues for Tuonos or RSV with Rotax motors..... |
Rich
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 02:54 pm: |
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My Tuono, while being kinda cold-blooded, will take throttle immediately. It does take more throttle to take off when cold, though. |
Buellnick
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 11:46 pm: |
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The air cooled bikes are slower to warm-up. The 2008 XB12Scg and the Ducati Monster hesitate and cough when cold. Once warmed up they work great. My XB9R is older, needs very little warm-up, and just goes almost immediately...
The 1125r needs to build some temperature but it doesn't take that long given its a liquid cooled bike.
Now that I've got over 300mi on the 1125r, I decided to check/see if the engine could stand some variations in the regimented starting and stopping procedures discussed here.
I started the bike and then shut it down at about 95F CT. It restarted without a problem. No smoke - no apparent flooding. This is an improvement.
I then let the CT build up to 135F and cracked the throttle. RPMs increased without any hesitation. This is also an improvement.
It would appear that emphasis on proper break-in with numerous heat cycles is very important. This motor is tight... The heat cycle aspect is not normally discussed in break-in procedures and HD/Buell assumes you will get sufficient heat cycles over a period covering 600mi. Out here in NM, (when the weather is good), you could put that kind of mileage on a bike with few heat cycles.
Bottom line, the bike seems to have improved from a starting standpoint - apparently on its own. HAL is learning!?
As the bike wears in more, I will run some more tests and see what the bike does with colder restarts and cracked throttles at even lower temps.
If anyone out there is braving cold restarts and cracked throttles before the fans come on - let me (all of us) know how it turns out.
N |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 02:23 am: |
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"The air cooled bikes are slower to warm-up. "
Wrong. |
Buellnick
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 03:02 am: |
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They most certainly are if you consider operability... The Buell XB or Ducati air cooled models need plenty of warm-up to reach their normal operating temps. If you start riding cold, you get coughing and sputtering, maybe even stalling especially under load. It takes the XB about 8 mins and the Ducati 10 or more mins to reach operating temperature. The Ducati doesn't even register temperature until about 5mins and that would be a lowly 123F.
When warmed-up...temps are definitely higher though...
The 1125r reaches 168F and fans blowing in about 4mins. The temp flashing is off in about 3mins. This is starting out in my 40-50F garage. Your results may vary.
Any starting/restarting tests out there? |
Spectrum
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 07:12 am: |
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My 1125R stops flashing at 151 degrees. Temperature stabilizes out at about 175-168 and fans come on.
Buellnick as you stated at 45 - 50 degree ambient temperatures it takes about 4 mins to reach 168 degrees.
I started mine this morning at ambient temperature of about 21 degrees. It took about 10 - 12 minutes to reach the 160's
I agree with Buellnick my XB9S took much longer to reach normal operating temperatures. |
Firstbuell
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 08:50 pm: |
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Tuono Joice's Aprilia would turn the Rotax engine over nicely and still not fire [on a NEW battery!]
after 8 years of listening to the M2 crank & fire immediately, what did I know?
an Aprilia dealership master mechanic who was walking by my garage [no kidding]
said, "lo battery"
further, "these fuel injections require full voltage to work"
so FastEd unzipped my Kragen's M/C jumper cable bag & connected the Tuono & M2 - bingo !!
ya gotta think the 1125R's mill would act more like an Aprilia than a tuber.....
file this anecdote away for troubled 1125R starting moments
[AFTER you pop for those tidy cables] |
Buellnick
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 09:11 pm: |
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Good to know... |
Arillius13
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 09:53 pm: |
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Actually, the recommened warm up for the XB's is 30 seconds. I got a video manual thing when I bought my 05 XB12R and Erik is on there talking about the bikes and so on and say to let it warm up for 30 seconds before riding. If you were to look at the printed manual im sure it would say the same. 30 seconds is alot faster then my 1125R. I dont know about anyone else but my XB12R warms up rather quickly. |
Buellnick
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 10:44 pm: |
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I can ride my XB bikes after thirty seconds but I don't because they do not run as well AND it takes me longer to put my gear on... In the summer when ambient temp is 90-100F, 30 secs is probably just fine. I think the manual meant at least 30 secs not that this was optimal. Dealer advice calls for more warm-up. They run better with more warm-up. Hard to say regarding actual temps w/o a temp gauge.
The 1125r is getting better every day... Today I started the bike and cracked the throttle with a CT of 100F. No problem. Restarted without issue. It seems to be sorting itself out and the motor is "loosening" up. |
Spectrum
| | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 09:20 am: |
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There is a difference between warm-up and normal operating temperature.
Warm-up:
XB - 30sec
1125R - Coolant at 151 degrees
From this prospective the XB warms up faster.
Normal Operating Temperature:
XB - 270 - 428+ (derived see note below)
1125R - 140-220
Overheated:
XB - ?(somewhere well above 428)
1125R - 230
From this prospective the 1125R reaches normal operating temperatures much quicker than the XB.
Of note in 45 - 60 degree temperatures my XB did not run right after a 30 sec warm up. It coughed, sputtered and had poor throttle response for the first couple of minutes of operation. The 1125R runs perfect once the coolant temperature reaches 150 degrees. I have not tried riding before.
I think it's interesting that the 1125R owners manual indicates the low end of normal operating temperature is 140 degrees, but on start up the coolant temperature will flash till it reaches 151.
*(Note) I haven't found documented normal operating temperatures for XB's so I derived these numbers from the XB9S Shop Manual. The 270 degrees is minimum temperature to perform the TPS reset adjustments. The 428 degrees is the highest temperature that will trigger the rear cylinder fan on. On overheating, I Can't find a reference in the XB owner or shop manual as to what temperature triggers engine overheated (engine light / trouble code 14)
(Message edited by spectrum on January 17, 2008) |
Vagelis46
| | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 11:06 am: |
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Niko,
Is the battery at 100% charge ? Maybe a low battery was the problem ?
Now that you are using the bike, it is getting charged and everything is improving. Is this possible ? |
Buellnick
| | Posted on Friday, January 18, 2008 - 12:53 am: |
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The bike has always started cold and it seems to have lots of cranking power/reserve.
My starting problem was really a restart problem when the bike was shut during the warm-up. It seems to have improved on its own after numerous heat cycles and 300+ miles. Generally, the bike runs great and is even more fun now that I can go to 7500RPM.
I did not take any voltage readings of the battery. The battery seemed to have plenty of cranking power. I will check the voltage. |
Vagelis46
| | Posted on Friday, January 18, 2008 - 03:22 am: |
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Cranking takes a lot of power. A weak battery will take a lot of time to recharge, after cranking, and might give running problems, since all the sensors are "reading" wrong values.
Check the voltage with engine off, also engine running after start, and the voltage during cranking. It is a good idea to take the battery to a shop to get it slowly charged 100%, just to be sure.
As someone else said on this thread, FI motos are very dependant on battery charge.....maybe the improvement you see is due to the battery getting to full charge ???
Have you checked that the dealer charged the battery on a charger before installing it on your bike. A battery out of the box is not 100% ready and the cold weather does not help either. |
Buellnick
| | Posted on Friday, January 18, 2008 - 11:42 pm: |
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The battery is currently steady at 12.79V which is consistent with a 100% charge. I also put the battery on an automatic charger and the battery registered as fully charged at 6, 2, and 1.5 Amp rates. It appears to be fully charged now and the bike has been starting and restarting flawlessly. I am not sure what the voltage was when I first got the the bike.
The early problems involved restart difficulties primarily due to flooding. Is it possible that a low battery could crank the engine multiple times for extended periods and not be able to power the FI? It seems the FI was working hard to squirt fuel since the restart attempts resulted in flooding on multiple occasions. If it was the battery, it is now 100% and life is good!
The bike is now flawless and as I mentioned earlier. It can even accept a cracked throttle at 100F CT during warm-up without issue. |
Vagelis46
| | Posted on Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 04:43 am: |
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Niko, it must have been the battery. They never charged it on a electric charger, before installing it on the bike
I have a friend with a Suzuki GSX1400. He told me that the FI system of his Suzuki, if there is a low battery, althought it cranks, it never starts the engine. The ECM is not giving enought voltage for the spark......During this winter he found out the hard way, by fauling his plugs due to cranking with low battery. He had to change plugs.
I am really glad your 1125r is flawless now. I am looking forward to your feedback for the cornering, braking, accelerating and riding experience ! |
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