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Buell Forum » 1125R Superbike Board » Archives 001 » Archive through June 12, 2008 » Important! Buell 1125R Owners Take Note! When Checking Oil.. » Archive through December 28, 2007 « Previous Next »

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Court
Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 08:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

>>>Again what happens if you start it and ride away with no oil in it

Very unlikely in that, by the time the bike arrives at the dealer, it's been run twice and oil pressure/level has been checked twice.

I suspect, with it being early in the ownership game, that we'll be learning more. I'm adopting an "all ears" info gathering stance . . .

Frankly, absent any reason to think my bike is using oil (I know at that, I don't guess) I confess I only check the oil from time to time.

We'll see what we can find. No better source of information than Buell owners.

Court
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Reepicheep
Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 09:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

You ever ridden a bike that consumed a quart of oil in a single ride? Much less 2.5 quarts (or whatever the 1125 capacity is?).

I have... I was running an FL1A filter on the M2, and it needed it hose clamp to keep it from backing off (DAMHIK).

If you start a ride with full oil, and use up a quart, I ***promise*** you that you will have ***ample*** notification : )

As for standing the bike up... I think thats what my old Yamaha and my current Kawasaki work. They both need to be upright.

If you are not comfortable holding it, then just keep a chunk of 2x4 around to put under the side stand. I'll send you a piece if you need one, I have lots of scraps from the deck project : )
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Zac4mac
Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 10:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I like Asbjorn's method.
We got a bunch of snow yesterday so I couldn't ride.
I was playing with Diagnostic mode and trying out different ways to check the oil.

The easiest was pretty much what Asbjorn described.
I have a question tho, related to that:

There is a significant difference to the reading if you sit or not.
Sitting on it gives a "real world" position, but the angle of the engine is different if the bike is vertical, but unloaded.

So, oil check with suspension loaded or unloaded?
I suspect loaded, but I'd like to be certain.

Z
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Court
Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 10:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

>>>I like Asbjorn's method.

>>>The easiest was pretty much what Asbjorn described.

I'm with you and would bet that as we get some experience in the badweb community we'll quickly establish "best practice".
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Ratbuell
Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 10:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Bearly - ever ride an S2? Gotta balance it every time I check the oil. Same on my S1W. Both of those are in the tail section though, so all I do is pull the seat, balance it between my (long lanky) legs and check the oil.

The 1125r does put the dipstick down low, but it is on the upward side when on the sidestand so just pull the bike to you, brace your left knee against the tail section or passenger peg, and check away. If you can ride a motorcycle, you should be able to balance one while its sitting still....

+1 on the wood scrap, though. 2x4, 4x4; I keep a couple in the garage in various sizes. I've painted them bright orange so I don't toss them, and I also keep a 4x4 about 6" long for the front of the truck bed to block the front wheel when I'm loading. Not a big deal on the Buells, but it keeps the FLHP's fender off the truck bed.

I'd still like to see a longer dipstick, though, with an "OK Cold" mark way down there. Owners should be able to check hot with no problem, but for us dealers it'd be nice to do a cold check without having to ride the bike. Even if Buell pulls a "Chrysler" - there is no transmission dipstick in our Magnum (or the Charger or 300). The dealership has a "special tool" - known as a dipstick to folks like me and you - they use to check the fluid level. Maybe issue a longer dipstick to dealers? Just a thought...
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Blake
Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 11:01 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

All the tube frame Buell require the bike to be upright when checking oil. I never gave it a second thought.

The instructions say nothing, zero, nadda, zip about loading the suspension, thus I'd conclude that when checking oil level, one should avoid that.

Assuming that a longer dipstick will provide the desired ability to accurately/reliably check oil with the bike on its side-stand may be risky. Lots of variables and issues may cause that method to be inaccurate/unreliable. So let's please proceed with caution.

Good suggestion again Court. I'll add Asbjorn's ingenious method as a note within the procedure.

(Message edited by blake on December 28, 2007)
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Davegess
Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 11:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

My Honda had to be upright also. I would do it while sitting on the bike.
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Court
Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 11:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I just read the manuals for both the family autos and they both have to be upright too . . . I guess it's not as big a deal as we thought.

: )

(Message edited by court on December 28, 2007)
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Blake
Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 12:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

In editing the oil checking procedure to include Asbjorn's suggestions, I realized that there may be other factors that might lead to false readings.

Just to be sure that it is okay, I'd like for someone to verify the acceptability of that method before publishing and recommending it here. If someone is willing to check their 1125R's oil level using both methods, back to back, and then reverify by rechecking oil level via both methods back to back, the rest of us would surely be grateful. : ) If the oil levels are identical for both methods (up-sidestand-up versus always-up), then we should be good to go.

The following is an integration of Asjborn's excellent suggestions into the factory's published procedure:


  1. Ride motorcycle for approximately 10 minutes. Ride at least 5 miles 8 kilometers to ensure the oil is hot and the engine is at normal operating temperature. Readings taken with colder oil could lead to an overfull engine condition.
    .
  2. Straddle motorcycle and hold it upright and vertical on firm level ground. An uneven surface will produce a false oil reading.
    .
  3. Idle the motorcycle in neutral for three minutes. Shut off the motorcycle and gently position motorcycle to rest on its sidestand. Dismount motorcycle.
    .
  4. Wait for two minutes after shutdown before reading the oil level, or false readings may result.
    .
  5. Unscrew and remove dipstick from oil filler hole. Wipe dipstick clean, and replace it, screwing dipstick in completely.
    .
  6. Straddle motorcycle and gently position it upright and vertical; hold that position for ten seconds, then gently lean the motorcycle back onto its sidestand and dismount.
    .
  7. Unscrew and remove dipstick and note oil level. An indicated oil level between MIN and MAX (measured after performing steps 1 through 6) is acceptable for safe engine operation. Oil should be added in 3 to 7 fl. oz. (100 to 200 mL) increments, depending on how far the level is from the MAX reading. Confirm oil level by repeating steps 5 through 7.
    .
    NOTE: If the oil level is at (or above) the OVERFULL mark, drain oil at 7 fl. oz. (200 mL) increments until the oil level is between the MIN and MAX marks on the dipstick. Repeat steps 5 though 7 to confirm proper level.
    .
  8. Reinsert and hand tighten dipstick into oil filler hole.


(Message edited by blake on December 28, 2007)
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Dentfixer
Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 12:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I think I'd use those 2x4's to rig up a quick "center stand" that you can easily roll the bike on to just for checking the oil. Can any of you owners verify if there is room enough and a secure place to position a "center stand"?
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Brumbear
Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 12:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

let me try this
would you even think about starting your car if you pulled the dipstick and there was no oil on it?
if you would :
I go no further as a mechanic I say I LOVE YOU and your on my christmas list cause people like you are my job security.
if not what would be your next move
a.) fill it until you see it to be safe
I know what the book says but thats not always right either as we all know
b.)if its a car you can at least make sure there is oil on the rockers or most bikes look into tank to make sure there is some oil in there
c.)start anyway and hope like hell the oil light goes out cause my machine is still under warrenty my preferance

easiest answer longer dipstck not to measure just to make sur ther is at least a minute bit of oil in it.
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Reepicheep
Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 01:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Two car jackstands and a chunk of rebar through the hollow rear axle has worked great for a center stand for me...
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Davegess
Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 01:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The dipstick on my Honda would be dry if you checked the oil cold or even hot if you waited too long; you had about 2-3 minutes to check after running for a good long while.

There is no oil in the tank to check when the engine is cold so it will always be dry.

I think this is common for dry sumps and not an issue.

Brum have you not had bikes like this before? I certainly have.
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Court
Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 01:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

>>>would you even think about starting your car if you pulled the dipstick and there was no oil on it?

I do that at every oil change.
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Blake
Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 02:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"would you even think about starting your car if you pulled the dipstick and there was no oil on it? "

No, but my car has a wet sump oil reservoir. My Buell has a dry sump oil reservoir.

So your question is akin to asking "would you even think about eating chicken if it were not thoroughly cooked?" when I don't have chicken; I have beef.
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Buellgator
Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 02:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Blake,

I just tried this suggestion on our demo bike.

Holding the motorcycle upright and screwing the dipstick in comes up with a much higher oil level reading.

Using the above suggested method of putting the bike on its sidestand and then standing it up showed the oil in operating range, but not nearly as high as when screwing the dipstick in from the upright position.

Our demo bike is way overfull using the new factory method. Thanks BadWeb
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Buellgator
Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 02:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I should also add that I tried standing the bike up from its sidestand 10, 20, and 30 seconds and got pretty much the same reading each time.
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Ratbuell
Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 02:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I wasn't suggesting a longer dipstick for sidestand checks, but for upright cold checks. Of course, that is all speculation since I don't know if there is a "tank" further down below the dipstick or if the passage stops at the bottom of the current dipstick. That's why I posted the idea for the Anony's to look at and consider.
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Dave_bogue
Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 03:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I use a very simple method to check the oil level on both my bikes. I simply hold the bike upright and check the sight glass. If the oil is between the upper and lower marks, I know all is good. I've used this method on numerous motorcycles. It just takes a few seconds.

The 1125R oil level check procedure is way too complicated for my liking. What was Buell thinking when they approved this design?

Dave
SV1000
ZX-10R
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Blake
Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 03:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I had a Yamaha that had a site glass for checking oil level. It was hands down the worst possible scenario I've ever seen. You had to have the bike upright and at the same time be down on your hands and knees in order to clearly see the sight glass.
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Dave_bogue
Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 04:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Blake,

In that case, the 8 step procedure outlined above for checking the 1125R's oil level will be a labor of love.

Have fun,

Dave
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Josh_
Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 04:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

well Baxley Chocks still has their 10% off Christmas sale (and the prices go up tomorrow) if you want the bike upright w/o an assistant.
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Doerman
Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 04:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

if you want the bike upright w/o an assistant.
That better be the wood block method you are selling there. I ain't fer sale!
Asbjorn
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Buellistic
Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 05:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

IMHO the Dealers are going to have oil level problems as with the TUBE FRAMEs ???

(Message edited by buellistic on December 28, 2007)
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Ccryder
Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 05:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

My Honda ST1300 is just about as complicated. It has a sight-glass with 2 lines.
1) Start it
2) Run it until 3 bars show
3) Put it on the center stand on level ground
4) Shut it off
5) Wait 3 mins
6) Find a flashlight
7) Get down on your hands and knees to view the sight-glass through a small opening in the fairing.

Hmm, too complicated, life is complicated but the alternative is........ Time2Ride.

Neil S.
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Ironhead1977
Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 07:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Easy maintenance is a good selling point. That is why I do not have a Duc.
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Blake
Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 07:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

If counting to 8 is a problem, we can reduce the number of steps for you...

  1. Ride motorcycle for approximately 10 minutes. Ride at least 5 miles 8 kilometers to ensure the oil is hot and the engine is at normal operating temperature. Readings taken with colder oil could lead to an overfull engine condition. Come to stop with motorcycle upright and vertical on firm level ground and allow the motorcycle to idle in neutral for three minutes then shut off the motorcycle and wait for two minutes before reading the oil level, or false readings may result.
    .
  2. Unscrew and remove dipstick from oil filler hole. Wipe dipstick clean, reinsert dipstick into oil filler hole, screwing dipstick in completely, then remove dipstick and note oil level.
    .
    Note: An indicated oil level between MIN and MAX (measured after performing steps 1 through 6) is acceptable for safe engine operation. Oil should be added in 3 to 7 fl. oz. (100 to 200 mL) increments, depending on how far the level is from the MAX reading. Confirm oil level by repeating steps 5 through 7.
    .
    NOTE: If the oil level is at (or above) the OVERFULL mark, drain oil at 7 fl. oz. (200 mL) increments until the oil level is between the MIN and MAX marks on the dipstick. Repeat to confirm proper level.
    .
  3. Remember to reinsert and hand tighten dipstick into oil filler hole.
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Blake
Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 07:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Buellgator,

Thanks for that valuable info. Looks like we'll have to learn to remove the dipstick while straddling the bike and holding up upright/vertical. That's probably the method I'd use anyway, on account of I'm lazy.
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Spatten1
Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 07:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I love the sight glass, only way to go in my opinion. Just sit next to the bike and lean it slowly to the balance point while looking at the level. You can even straddle the bike and use a mirror to view the sight glass if you are not comfortable balancing it from the side while sitting.

At any rate: would you rather hold the bike upright and screw in and unscrew the dipstick with one hand, or use both hands to steady the bike and look at the sight glass?
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Court
Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 08:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

>>>>Our demo bike is way overfull using the new factory method.

Again.

I'd suggest folks share this information with their dealers. If I were buying an 1125r, I'd check the oil level, knowing what I now know, myself.
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