| Author | Message | ||
     Ratbuell |
New bike baseline netted rear wheel numbers of 141 hp and 81 lb-ft, ambient temps mid 30s on a fourth gear roll-on run. Woo-hoo!  | ||
| Fresnobuell |
No way. And don't forget the ram air either. THanks Buell for not inflating power number like SO many other mfrs. Thanks Rat--so how much do you think the cold air helped the power figures? | ||
| Ratbuell |
I was surprised. I thought if nothing else, the air would be too cold for good power, but it seems the bike didn't really care. It certainly got the dyno tech's attention! | ||
| Dtx |
Holy Cow! That's impressive. | ||
| Josh_ |
What's a new XB12 show on that dyno in those temps? | ||
| Dave_bogue |
"New bike baseline netted rear wheel numbers of 141 hp and 81 lb-ft, ambient temps mid 30s on a fourth gear roll-on run." I am skeptical. A bike with 146 claimed crankshaft horsepower is not going to pull 141 rwhp. The dyno is outside in 35 degree weather? You put a "new bike" on the dyno? Something tells me that 141 rwhp will not be typical. I want to believe, but .......... Dave Bradenton Florida SV1000 ZX-10R | ||
| Madduck |
All companies are liars when they state hp figures. Some under some over. Individucal machines can easily vary by 5%, so the 141 on a particular dyno for a belt drive twin is very believable. I know a number of shops that intend to do a dyno run on their first ones, don't want a customer fragging it and ruining Buells reputation now do we. | ||
| Dave_bogue |
I too do not believe the advertised crankshaft horsepower of any manufacturer. It is a number that cannot be verified. On the other hand, there are plenty of RWHP dynojet dynomometers. Yes, they do vary, so an average RWHP number is credible. No manufacturer is going to claim a crankshaft horsepower figure LOWER than it actually is. Dave | ||
| Metalstorm |
I recall reading some where here, a post by an annony saying the hp claims were "conservative". I guess he wasn't lying  | ||
| Ratbuell |
Actually, we baseline all our new bikes before delivery as part of the setup; have for years. Not only so the customer can have "the chart", but to make sure the curve matches the rest of the family of bikes, the bike is in spec, etc. We also save all the curves for later diagnosis ("my bike developed a flat spot at X rpm"/ "really? let's see"). Lastly, it quantifies what folks are getting for their big bore kit purchases on the HDs when we print the "before and after" charts. Case in point, my '96 FLHP. Stock was 57/71, now with some work it's 78/90. Not bad for an 80" The same dyno tells us new baggers have around 68 rwhp; XLs are around 60-62 and XB12s come in mid/high 90s. Most times we run in warmer ambient air (the dyno is indoors but has a BIG vent system without climate control, it just pulls exterior air). We try to run in the 50s if we can, but we can't really dictate the weather. I suspect the room temp may have been closer to 40 or so...but I don't have the chart on my desk, the owner has it at home (probably in a frame by now, LOL). We're pretty middle of the road, which is good for accuracy. We'll know once the next one comes in, should only be a couple days (hopefully). Truthfully, I was expecting 130s. First pull was 140/81, second pull was 141/80. I was pleasantly surprised. Typing that reminded me, perhaps gearing plays a factor? I don't have the gearing handy - is fourth pretty much 1:1? Time to dig for a spec sheet somewhere....ah, got the book. States 1.174 fourth gear overall ratio. If you math it out, I think that puts it closer to 120 at a 1:1. Engineers doublecheck me. However, to the ground is to the ground, and we ride on top of torque multiplication and mechanical advantage (unless everyone plans to ride in the 1:1 ratio 6th gear all the time)....and a 6th gear pull would be bad for the dyno given the "road speed" of the drum. For my money, if the road sees 141 hp in fourth gear, that's what counts to me | ||
| Buellgrrrl |
Dynoing a new, un broken in bike? What dealership was this?... If I want my new bike dynoed I'll wait until I've broken it in properly and it'll be dynoed only after being properly warmed up. BTW, those hp numbers sound at least 10% above what independent magazine reviews are getting- perhaps your dealership's dyno needs to be properly calibrated. | ||
| Rich |
Dang! Good numbers. I plan on doing my own PDI. | ||
| Jlnance |
Dynoing a new, un broken in bike? Don't ever tour the Harley plant. | ||
| Anonymous |
146 is conservative, and the final configuration is a little better than when certain tests were run. And while rear wheel dynos vary, there's another thing to consider: a new 1125R doesn't make peak power until it's had well over 1000 miles on it to get a really good ring seal . . . | ||
| Reepicheep |
Wow. 141 stock RWHP, with a fat power curve. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Rich - unless you're a dealer tech, good luck doing your own PDI. Corporate won't let bikes out of the dealerships unless a factory trained person does the setup...at least not if you want any semblance of a warranty. Your profile doesn't list if you're an employee or not, but if you're a "regular" customer and your dealer told you that you can do your own...I'd call them again. Something smells fishy there. If you're a tech...that's awesome. I wish I was a tech so I could set up my own bikes...all I could do is pick my tech and chickenhawk them all the way through the process, LOL. My understanding is that our dyno is calibrated at least once a year. Given the number of variables, though...*any* dyno is for reference only. Think about relative humidity, baro pressure, temperature, altitude...and all that's before you get into vehicle sensors like charge temp sensors, O2 sensors, baro sensors (and do they match actual baro or are they "within range" of a couple percent?), etc. I always tell my buyers that the chart is for reference only and not to be taken as scripture. If we run a bike against a baseline and it has a huge dip in the graph that wasn't there before, regardless of absolute numbers, we know there's a problem somewhere. And...believe it or not, we *do* make sure the bikes have been heat-cycled and/or test ridden for 10 miles and are at proper operating temp before running them. We've done this once or twice before and contrary to popular (internet) belief, we do actually know what we're doing ;) Anony - I can't wait to see what they put down after 1k! Have you done any chassis pulls on the final configuration yet? | ||
| Anonymous |
The 141 is a cold air reading from one dyno. Don't expect that from every 1125R dyno test; do expect an 1125R to make a higher percentage of its advertised power than a certain almost 1100cc twin that's been getting a lot of attention recently. | ||
| Ratbuell |
 | ||
| Rocketman |
do expect an 1125R to make a higher percentage of its advertised power than a certain almost 1100cc twin that's been getting a lot of attention recently. What is the point in such a dumb comment? All it does is serve to make Buell look stupid in the face of their critics. More so when the machine you're referring to races and wins at world level, when Buell don't even have an entry in any world level series. Rocket | ||
| Diablo1 |
The 141 is a cold air reading from one dyno. Don't expect that from every 1125R dyno test; do expect an 1125R to make a higher percentage of its advertised power than a certain almost 1100cc twin that's been getting a lot of attention recently. I interpret this to mean that the weak 160 HP of the other bike is still more power than the strong 146 HP of the Buell. Or are you really saying that the Buell will dyno higher than the Ducati on the same dyno back to back?} | ||
| Sheridan_bueller |
Of note here is the fact that the Buell was all stock and very new, achieving very impressive numbers. | ||
| Rocketman |
Of note here is the fact that the Buell was all stock and very new and that is the ONLY fact. Rocket | ||
| Dalton_gang |
I don`t mean to get off topic (base line dyno), but I just can`t help thinking that some of us will be tweeking our Helicons up to the 175hp - 200hp range soon. Also I am thinking that the factory will come out with a more potent Helicon for the race version. | ||
| Metalstorm |
When looking at the big picture, its crank hp compared to its rear wheel hp, it sure impresses the heck out of me. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Hmmm, people make purely speculative comments on the Buell's likely performance, and get excoriated for that. Now someone posts hard data on the Buell's performance, and they get excoriated for that. I think all Anony was saying is that the 1125R is going to be a lot closer in RWHP to the "other" bike than some people were speculating. | ||
| Metalstorm |
If any of the mind prying I did at Seca has any ring of truth to it, the Helicon can be tuned to have as much, maybe even more hp than the above not quite mentioned bike. But...it would give up that beautiful torque curve that the Elves and the Rotax folks worked so hard to perfect. On Edit: when the bike already has 146 hp I think I'd prefer ridability over 20 extra ponies. Unless I was racing. That is the only exception in my opinion. Track days don't count in my book either unless the bike is specifically track only/no street. (Message edited by metalstorm on December 08, 2007) | ||
| Josh_ |
Sure would be nice to see a 1098 on the same dyno ... | ||
| Ratbuell |
Bring me one | ||
| Josh_ |
Some one link this to a Ducati forum, maybe we can rile them up enough to show up with one? ;) Rain and snow all week for me, who knows when I'll be able to pick mine up... (1125R, not 1098 ...) | ||
| Rocketman |
Ducati forum............[Hi all. Thought some of you may be interested in looking at my dyno chart. Slip on termis with latest ecu trimmed to plus 20 ( richened up right through the range) Power was better than i thought at nearly 152 rear wheel horsepower and 82 ft/lbs of torque. Dynoed with stock mufflers and ecu at 143 hp, so good gains with slip ons, and good tuning!! Full system only gains another 6hp. How do i know this ?? Because they had done dyno readings on a 1098 with the full set up. Worth the extra bucks for 6hp more?? You decide. 152 is plenty in my book and the extra money saved on not purchasing the full system has gone into lots of carbon fibre add ons. ] DYNO CHART HERE Cold hard facts. 151.8rwhp from a 1098 with Termi's and chip, and you expect me to believe an 1125 can pull the unsupported by proof figures claimed here. Get real people. You're on crack if you believe 141 stock. Read the rest of the thread in that forum and you might be surprised even further by what other 1098 owners are claiming - which is less still! Rocket (Message edited by rocketman on December 08, 2007) |
