| Author | Message | ||
     Cupp42 |
Thanks for doing this Q&A guys. I for one do not care that the engine built along side BRP is not "American made". However, many people on other forums are in a rage over this fact, calling it the American sportbike, when the engine is not being built here. I am trying to do my best to defend Buell's decision to do so. What I am looking for is a good answer to why did we not design and build our own engine for the 1125R. Thanks for any response, cant wait to ride this beast! Cupp42 | ||
| New12r |
$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Really, who cares where the engine came from, americans designed the bike from the ground up, as well as cooperated in the design of the engine. They did not say, BRP, build us a motor, they said BRP, build us THIS motor. | ||
| Ccryder |
It is all a matter of $'s. R&D is VERY expensive. To gather a staff of Engineers and Technicians and maintain them over a number of years is EXPENSIVE. In this day and age there are a number of expert design firms that thrive by selling their expertise. Why do think big companies like BMW, Aprila and, Buell go to Rotax? The staff and expertise is there at Rotax and the economics dictate how it is done. Manufacturing is the same way. Machine tools and programming them is VERY expensive. In this day and age of a global economy, this type of design and manufacturing is commonplace. Don't let the people on the other sites tell you any different. I work for a $15 Billion a year company and I know that we design, manufacture and build where and when the economics dictate, just like our competition. Time2Roll Neil S. | ||
| Cupp42 |
Exactly my point. I just care that it works and performs the way I think it will, this is what the Buell owners wanted, more hp. But the question still remains why not in house? Are the H-D/Buell engineers not given the capacity to design their own engine to be manufactured in the U.S.? I know that Buell makes a world class sportbike with world class components but the engine is really the heart and soul of any bike. If you were of the Harley faithful and H-D introduced a new cruiser with a BRP motor how would you react? Or better yet if Buell used one of the big 4 to make the motor for them instead of BRP how would you react? Surely had Honda built the Helicon for Buell you would have a very sour taste in you mouth. | ||
| Jimidan |
Read the Kevin Cameron article, Cycle World Oct. 2007 issue for your answers. It makes good sense to him and to me how Buell did it. | ||
| Cupp42 |
How does that answer this question. It simply states "The project is at least three years old and began with the search for an engine-maker." So if you read in to that it seems as though doing it in house wasn't even a thought let alone an option. | ||
| Ccryder |
Jason: It is a matter of $'s. Would we have liked it better if it was just as good and designed/ built in house and 25-30% more? No I don't think so, then someone would be complaining about why American workers have to get paid so much, or some other drivel like that. When a dog chases his tail, does he feel good that he catches it or, just relieved that the chase is over??? The chase is over. The 1125r is what it is and that will not change. Neil S. | ||
| Regkittrelle |
Generally speaking (always a danger in that) those who obsess over a product's origin are not going to be dissuaded from doing so by any answer you might come up with. Jingoists are not necessarily influenced by common sense, logic, or the realities of today's world. It would be nice to have a completely home-grown Buell... although I'm not sure why I think that... but there are very few items of any complex design that are completely designed/built here. We have priced ourselves out of the market, pure and simple. Discussing the issue with your nationalistic friends is probably a waste of time. However, you might ask them what they would be willing to pay for a Buell that was completely designed and built in this country. Would they pay $30K-$35K for an 1125R? Doubtful. Even that figure would be too low if Buell had hired the staff and spent the capital investment money that it would have taken to justify a "Made In the U.S.A." sticker on the tank. Then ask your friends what the alternative would be: If they weren't willing to spend that money should the bike then NOT be produced? And if they are willing to spend the money, could they also convince 15,000 of their closest friends to do same? Ccryder got it right: It's all about the bucks. Interestingly (at least to me), if Erik Buell were still a one-man-band, and he produced a $35K 1125R by whatever means, he'd be lauded by all. That Harley is involved changes the picture... not sure why. | ||
| Agwop |
I have never had anyone say my aprilia is not an italian bike. I don't get what all the fuss is over the new engine's origin. Designed by Buell and build by Rotax is a major plus as far as I am concerned, and I am looking forward to comparing my beloved 60 degree v990 directly against the 1125 at the inside pass day in October. | ||
| Slaughter |
Yaaawwwnnnn.... Zzzzzzzz.... | ||
| Court |
What do your friends drive? I admire you for finding a group of such devout zealots so fiercly adhering to their values.  | ||
| Tpoppa |
Without Buell all sportbikes would be manufactured 100% outside of the US. | ||
| Rfischer |
Time gentlemen, TIME is the most precious commodity of all. To do the project in-house would have taken far longer due to all the ramp-up necessary to acquire the human and technical resources. And H-D has its own priorities which max out the co.'s technical capacity. . The market waits for no-one and Buell would have been waaay late to the party if it had done the engine itself. Think KTM, among others.. | ||
| Coal400 |
I want Buell to succeed, and if it makes good business sense to outsource an engine (which I think in this case it does) then I'm all for it. Think of it this way... if you had to build your own bike from scratch, could you do it with all US components? Then, could you make enough money to stay in business? Maybe when Buell gets big enough, they can produce a $35,000 commemorative line that is "All-American". | ||
| Cupp42 |
Court: They are of the Harley faithful, of course. Who else just wouldn't "get it". It is just a little frustrating over at the Cycle World forums when me and 1 or two other Buell enthusiasts get backed into a corner every time we try to defend the brand. Doesnt matter if its American forum or sportbike forum there ain't much love for Buell in either, this is why I find refuge here where I'm surrounded by other people who do "get it".  | ||
| Regkittrelle |
By most anyone's definition, Cupp42, I am one of the "Harley faithful. I think I "get it," though. Enjoying and appreciating the Big Twins does not necessarily eliminate one from the ranks of the informed. | ||
| Rfischer |
Right on Reg! Tho' I once ran around various and sundry tracks on a much-modified S1, those days are some years gone and my one 'n only ride now is a well-used '90 FXR with a big-inch S&S between the down-tubes. But I still am keenly interested in Buell, its triumphs and tribulations. Like you, I think I "get it". | ||
| Cupp42 |
Reg, Fisch. Obviously I was talking in a generalization, and I should know better than that, but you have to understand where I am coming from on this. I am not attacking anyone intentionally, I merely asked the question that I would like to know a legitimate answer for. I assume the reasons are the same as what everyone has mentioned here. Is this the official reason I don't know. But it never hurts to ask. I could care less where the engine is made, the fact that is made by BRP should mean that it has good reliability right out of the gates. I just like to have facts when people ask me a question like "why wasn't the Helicon made in the U.S." Part of my job is to be as well informed or more informed than the customer. I certainly don't intend to offend anyone. | ||
| Wantxbr |
I'm with Reg as being one of the Harley faithfuls. I love these Buells and am very anxious to see whats new for NEXT YEAR! And even more so for the following years. I Don't believe that because Buell is running a Austrian motor makes it Austrian, Its where the bike was designed and made. I don't call a Buell a Harley because of the Sportster based Buell motor, I call it a Buell because thats the Company that made the bike. And when I finally get my Buell I will still be a Harley Faithful aswell as Buell Faithful. | ||
| Jlnance |
I just like to have facts when people ask me a question like "why wasn't the Helicon made in the U.S." I think the easiest answer to that question is that no one in the US was interested in making that engine. | ||
| Bobup |
mind if I stir the pot a bit guys? just to clarify... 1st...I ride an XB9SX 2nd...I have been riding over 35 years 3rd...all my previous bikes were Yamaha now... here in Fremont, Ca. we have the NUMI (New United Motors Inc.) plant that used to be GM (General Motors)...NUMI builds Toyotas...does that make them American cars? I still consider them Japanese made. (I'm still buying an 1125R as soon as the 1st one arrives in Livermore...it is still a Buell) | ||
| Thunderbox |
Bombardier Recreational Products is a Canadian Company located in Austria. So I guess it makes it North American in a roundabout way. Who give a sh t. | ||
| Imonabuss |
Those in a rage are consumate jacka**es. Every other sportbike is a complete import, Buell is the only American sportbike company, and it is famous for unique American ideas from everyone else. And as mentioned above, Aprilia has become a darling of the Italian motorcycles with all of their engines coming from outside Italy (some Rotax, some Suzuki, etc). I know they are now going to their own engines on some bikes, but that is 100% of Aprilia's history for what, 30-40years? Anyone who badmouths Buell for not being American is a supreme idiot. | ||
| M1combat |
"Anyone who badmouths Buell for not being American is a supreme idiot." +1 | ||
| Bonjoxb12s |
I'd like someone to show me who makes an ALL AMERICAN product with no outsourcing of development in any aspect.... AND have a price tag under $30k. Buell was smart... they made us a competitive, unique sportbike within the price range of the crowd it attracts. Well done Buell and Thank you!! | ||
| Crusty |
Those in a rage are consummate jackasses. Fixed it for you. I also agree with you. There are lots of jackasses out there. | ||
| 4cammer |
These people that state that Buell is not an American bike.......what do they say of Bimota? Rickman? Dresda? Harris? Spondon? As for CycleWorld forums, well, let's just say they are a bit less mannered than some other forums. | ||
| Djkaplan |
Taking the best the world has to offer and using it to get what we want is what this country is all about anyway. No one seems to care about foreign content in the US Olympic teams. If you can't see this... I say that is un-American! | ||
| Bib |
Hey since Rotax is a subsidiary of Bombardier, doesn't that mean the engines are really Canadian?  Bib | ||
| Ratbuell |
Neat little tidbit we were given in 1125 class: Buell owns all the tooling for the Helicon. Not BRP. Sounds like an American motor to me, it's just built somewhere else, with American tooling, from an American design. Next question? |
