| Author | Message | ||
     Buellinachinashop |
I'm curious to see how Buell is going to rework their slogan.."American Made Motorcycles" now. That's a key selling point to alot of folks. | ||
| Davegess |
I'm curious to see how Buell is going to rework their slogan.."American Made Motorcycles" now. and what has changed, they are still American made. A smaller percentage of the total parts cost may come from America BUT it is still very much made here!!! | ||
| Anonymous |
@Buellinachinashop: "a patriot is somebody who loves his fatherland. a nationalist is somebody who despise other peoples fatherland." do you know what i mean? | ||
| Ducxl |
You're sourcing too many parts from other countries. | ||
| Ducxl |
You buy your Fuquing wheels from China.A Patriot loves his fatherland enough to support it.Try buying your wheels here:Durrani in Michigan | ||
| Stealthfighter |
nice wheels. send an email to the BMC controllers! i prefer PVM wheels (http://www.pvm.de/w/e/mo/index.html)... fu**, they are from Germany...  | ||
| Court |
Duc: If you believe that shut your lights off . . . I'd be willing to bet the generator, spinning on the other end, has MADE IN CHINA stenciled on the side. . . most the new ones do. Court | ||
| Court |
By the way . . . those are nice wheels. There are 12,000 registered folks on Badweb. Are you aware of a single owner who has ever used them? I'm curious as to why, if these are the cat's meow (and I am not disputing that) I have never, in 20 years of motorcycling, ever heard of them. Court | ||
| Davegess |
A patriot loves his fatherland enough to say it is going the wrong way and needs to do things differently.. It is a world economy and if we do not come to terms with it we will be the latest in the long line of empires that have crumbled. Our empire will crumble eventually but we have a unique opportunity to replace our empire with a world where we still live like kings and so does everyone else. We need to move China and India into our world as quickly as possible. We need a property owning middle class in both countries as quickly as we can make it happen. The same thing needs to happen in the middle east, South America and Africa. Defending our economy to the death will simply and more surely hasten that death. | ||
| L_je |
I'll take Court up on the Made in China stuff... The generators that are manufactured in China, where were they designed? The People's Republic of China is a Communist country. Everything in Communist China is viewed as communal property ...including your company's proprietary information. In China, R&D stands for Rip-off and Duplicate. A rhetorical question here, the BRP-Rotax engine, what sort of rights does Buell have to the engine design? Can Buell take the CAD drawings of the 1125 engine, and start producing them here? Probably not, because Rotax most likely owns the full rights to the design details, and Buell probably only Limited Rights to the design. Copyrights, proprietary information, patents...all of these things mean something to Buell...not so in China. In China, if you steal from the Americans, there is no punishment, but if you steal from PROC, you will be put to death. Embezzle $1M from the people of China, and you will be shot in the head after a 3 day trial. Pirate $100M in DVDs, and you will not even be charged with a crime. Thinking of moving manufacturing to China? I would much rather partner with India, where they respect the rule of law. A property owning middle class in China? Yeah, it's called Taiwan, THE Republic of China. Do I hate mainland China? Yeah, just a little. Dude, if it starts with "The People's Republic of", or "The Democratic Republic of" or worse yet, "The Democratic People's Republic of" it's bad news; stay away. | ||
| Court |
>>>The generators that are manufactured in China, where were they designed? My bet would be (I do not know) that they are designed in the USA and built in China . . . . uh, just like the Dell Computer I am typing this on. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
Personally, I look at "american" as being the drivetrain and frame. The cycle is American, the motor isn't. Court....when things are made in China, they say it. Your Dell isn't advertised as..."Dell, American Computers" | ||
| Spiderman |
A wise man once told me "Vote with your dollar" If you don't like it, don't buy it. But I assure you there are going to be plenty of people behind you with there dollars wanting this Buell. BTW Those Chinese wheels are made by a Japanese Co. Enki<sp>. The moved one of their plants to China so they wouldn't get ripped off buy cheap knock offs... | ||
| Ducxl |
My bet would be (I do not know) that they are designed in the USA and built in China My fellow Americans lost their jobs ecause of those generators. We need to move China and India into our world as quickly as possible. How presumptuous (or do i mean pretentious?).How do you know that it's not THEM who want to move US into their world? We're so full of ourselves that we think everybody wants to be like us.Why are there so many riots at EVERY meeting of GATT and WTO???? Durrani is where it's at.Forget Enkei wheels.Buell's future is in making AMERICAN motorcycles.Not just waiting for the COSCO containers | ||
| Ratbuell |
Harley doesn't make brake calipers; Nissin and Brembo do. Harley doesn't make stereos, Harman-Kardon does. Harley developed the Revolution powertrain with Porsche. Harley makes MOTORCYCLES, not parts (well, not all of them anyway). Buell does not make engines, Rotax does. Buell does not make wheels, PM and Marchesini and Castalloy do. Buell does not make handlebar switchgear, someone else does. Buell does not make rear view mirrors, someone else does. I'm willing to bet Buell doesn't build LCD speedometers with lap timers, either. Buell designs and builds motorcycles, in America. The profit from these motorcycles by and large stays in America. The jobs to design and manufacture them are in America. Some of the *pieces* may be manufactured elsewhere...but the motorcycles themselves are still built right here. And yes, there are a lot of Hondas and Toyotas being built here as well - note my statement earlier about the majority of the Buell profits also staying in America. Buell has maximized their product and profits by outsourcing needed components to people and companies who specialize in making rear view mirrors, and wheels, and engines, and LCD speedometers with lap timers. Those folks ONLY make wheels and rear view mirrors and engines and LCD speedometers with lap timers, so they have the knowledge and capability to take the Buell design and make it work, reliably and less expensively. They have the equipment to put it together, and test it, and make it right before it's released. I don't want my drywall contractor changing the headgasket in my car - he may get it right, eventually...he may not. He may or may not even have the right tools for the job. I'd rather get someone trained to do headgaskets, with the tools to change a headgasket already in their toolbox, to replace the headgasket. Smart businessmen - and smart *people* - know when to ask others for expertise and assistance in key areas. That does not make the 1125r any less American...at least not in my eyes. (Message edited by ratbuell on July 31, 2007) | ||
| Mikej |
"Durrani is where it's at. " Do you have a pic of any Buell with Durrani wheels on it? | ||
| Court |
>>>>We're so full of ourselves that we think everybody wants to be like us. That's what I get from people who spend time doing business in China. I'm a construction buy, so I deal with construction metrics. When I see the % of the world's steel and concrete that is currently being consumed by the Chinese, I can extrapolate where the world's next super power will be. In fact, here in New York City there is a major problem getting tower cranes as they are in such demand they are being "exported".    The world is not a static "zero sum" economy. Dollars flow like waves on the sea to and fro. A smart business person is one who adapts to change and uses experience and knowledge to predict and position. The moment someone in the United States can make a product, say a generator, that is competitive, you'll find not only American utilities buying them . . . but the Chinese utilities as well. Different folks have different skill sets and bring different value. Please note that folks like the Chinese (and in particular the Middle Eastern countries) are making ludicrous employment offers to folks like me at the moment . . . ya know why? Because American schools and technology have provided us with the best education and experience in the world. Fly a resume' out somewhere touting "over 5,000 miles overhead 345kv and 765kV transmission line and .150 345kV turn-key substation installations completed" and you might as well throw fresh meat in shark infested waters. The one, from Shaw Group last month, was "double the highest pay you can show the last 5 years and $100,000 to sign on . .. but you have to start Monday". Also note that many of the companies engineering and building the world's big projects are from Boise, Houston, Graniteville and Kansas City . . . we just don't make wheels. By the way, I think Castalloy went bankrupt. Court | ||
| Slaughter |
I deal with intellectual property and have a problem with people who ignore IP laws. The Chinese are changing for the better - soon the consumer-demanded "bargains" will be coming from South Asia and the emerging starving economies in the Middle East. Still - just be able to adapt - (I won't bring out the buggy whip manufacturing analogy, promise!) | ||
| Court |
>>>>I deal with intellectual property and have a problem with people who ignore IP laws. Then you'll love the news articles today touting the recent court (not me, the REAL ones  ) decision shifting the balance of power back to companies wanting to defend their patents. Good news, me thinks, for Buell. See today's WSJ or drop me a note and I'll post the article. | ||
| Spatten1 |
I want to know which of you would pay $20k for an all American Buell Vs. $12k for one with multi-national components. Be honest. I know I would probably not have a motorcycle if all the parts were UAW made, as the hobby would be too expensive for me. Sad, but I believe it is true. | ||
| Diablobrian |
Please do post it up Court. I'm very interested in it. | ||
| Slaughter |
Cool beans Court. I'll PM ya shortly We've seen the Chinese Govt starting to crack down on copyright and patent infringements... which has meant that the bootleg technologies are moving to the emerging South Asian economies - and remember THOSE economies have a many-centuries old tradition of thievery and less-than-legal activity. | ||
| Kvdog |
Now if they'd just get the hell out of Tibet... | ||
| Bueaddicted |
In my humble opinion I don't really care where the parts are manufactured, as long as the quality is there. When I look at Buell, I see "American" - I don't dissect origins... When I go to Liberty to purchase the 1125r, I won't be looking at country of origin stamps on the bike! All I'll be itching for is more power, 6 gears, modern technology, etc!  I'm not American, but I love the design characteristics of Buell bikes, even if they were 95% made in (insert country here), and 5% designed by an amazing engineer/s who happens to be American! Heck, I'm the only "non-American" guy in my motorcycle club that rides a Buell, and although they made fun when I bought my 12R, most are impressed with the bike now. Granted, some still question me on the characteristics of the bike, but who cares - I LOVE IT!. Damn, I think I'm getting too attached to my 12R - mental note "get a  "!  | ||
| Spiderman |
hmmmmm, My heritage is Polish, Irish, German and a little bit of Native American. Sooo I guess since I am not made of parts that all originated here, soI guess I am not American. CRAP | ||
| Bueaddicted |
"Sooo I guess since I am not made of parts that all originated here, so I guess I am not American."  I'm still amazed that in this age of global economy, some still hold onto the belief that if its not made in their backyard, then it's not "home-made"! please don't  me! | ||
| Jimidan |
hmmmmm, My heritage is Polish, Irish, German and a little bit of Native American. Sooo I guess since I am not made of parts that all originated here, soI guess I am not American. CRAP you forgot a little bit arachnid... | ||
| Gtmg |
Well and well about China. You need to remember that the Chinese have their currency tied to the American dollar and limit free movement in the market. That being said no matter how much the dollar drops so does Chinese currency. They will always have a cost advantage on us. They also don't have the same labor and environmental laws and their lack of environmental controls affect us in real ways on the West Coast. Health care what little there is, is paid by the government taking another large cost out. I would dare say if you the Chinese currency was allowed to float in open markets they could not compete with American labor. Many products in reality have only 10 to 15% of their cost in labor. With the rising cost of oil shipping that relies on diesel fuel would be a killer. If you look at company profits you can see that many companies who have moved to China have NOT INCREASED profitability and their costs have remained the same but Wallstreet and Wallmart like it. Chinese companies are starting to complain about pressure to lower costs from Walmart and others. You can see in the news that some have resorted to unethical practices. Not a surprise as Jason point out with their lack of ethics around patents. It has been proven over and over in many studies that we are the most productive and creative workforce in the world. Yes there are exceptions like Toyota. A well run company is a well run company any where in the world. Reading between the lines imagine a truly fair trade agreement with China. Manufacturing would not have moved over there. They would be a net importer of goods from North America. Labor intensive manufacturing would have moved to Mexico preventing much of the illegal immigration. Hi tech manufacturing would have remained in the US with high paying jobs and be a growing segment. What we got is low cost crap from China for the most part with declining income for most of the middle class right now and a very murky future for our kids and their kids. | ||
| Ccryder |
GTMG, from what I have read in the last few months China's currency is no longer tied to the USD. This break was supposed to happen but I am not 100% sure it has happened. We deal a lot with China and have plants there too. Breaking that tie is a BIG issue that needs to happen. Neil S. | ||
| Ducxl |
GTMG,thank you for the informative post. I'd like to see the proponents of China come forth now and refute your point of view.It would make for interesting reading. So we're subsidizing the Chinese economy? |
