| Author | Message | ||
     Reepicheep |
Glad to see Buell is improving Rotax engines now, instead of just improving Sporty engines. I wish they would work on the engine in my Toyota now... The thing is hopeless over complicated and over engineered. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I don't understand what the conflict is here. Are we shocked that existing Rotax technology would appear in a Rotax/Buell engine? Who said that there ISN'T rotax technology in the 1125R? | ||
| Sshbsn |
Don't want to interrupt the merry-go-round of engine intrigue, but one other thing about Buell's future is this: there are CONSTANTLY posts about HD dealers' poor treatment of the brand, and the only thing my local dealer seems to use Buells for is to tie tent ropes to during outdoor sales. I couldn't even sit on a Lightning Long because they only had one, and it was "tied up." (sorry about the poor but true pun) Why oh why doesn't Harley let Buell out of their dealerships? Idiot dealers and their idiot salesmen may really start to hold this brand back, or even sabotage it, once the 1125R hits the streets. Harley banks a lot of marketing on the whole patriot/USA thing, so why don't they give a USA-made sportbike a chance to succeed by letting Ducati or Triumph or BMW dealers pick up the brand? Let people who will appreciate and support these bikes--and the Buell brand--sell them to an equally enthusiastic clientele. And this isn't just venting, or internet whining. I, along with literally thousands of others, want an answer to this. Unfortunately, we probably will have to be satisfied with conjecture... We're not satisfied though. I've heard an earful for over three years in here about HD vs. Buell, with disgruntled owners and fans relating horror stories, and with apologizers and rationalizers saying "that's the way it is, let them eat cake." I no longer own a Buell mainly because of the dealership. I almost bought another one last summer, but went to two dealers and was lucky I wasn't spit on, so I bought a Triumph Daytona 955i instead. It wasn't the bike I wanted, namely an XB12R, so I ended up selling it after four months. So there you have it, congratulations Harley Dealers, another Buell not sold. Buell is a terrific brand, with phenomenal products. It deserves a LOT better than this. The world of motorcyclists also deserves a LOT better than this, because many riders will not experience the joy of Buell ownership because of the treatment they'll receive when they look at one, or have one serviced, or try to buy parts or accessories for one. Many riders will simply buy something that was not what they were looking for. That's what happened to me. How about a poll, or a petition? You know, "Free Buell Now!" or something? okay, I'm done ranting | ||
| Curtyd |
I don't know BUT I was in the local HD dealer yesterday who even has subsequently dropped the Buell line but still checked my charging system out while putting in a new battery in my 4-year old XB9S. Everyone there was real excited about the new motor for Buell. They are mechanics after all and motorcycle lovers, so I just think some folks may need to improve their "people skills" if they feel so denigrated in a HD shop. I've had some problems too, but nothing I wasn't able to handle. Personally I really don't even want to talk to a salesman until I have my checkbook out and am ready to bang out the numbers and pass or go on the deal. Unless they want to set up a test ride then and there I never minded being left alone when I probably know more about any of the bikes I am looking at than any of them ever did. That's my flip side to this 'red headed stepchild' proposition. (Message edited by CurtyD on July 27, 2007) | ||
| Gregtonn |
José, And you also should concede point 2 because the internal oil filter is standard Rotax practice, and it has never been standard Buell practice until this engine, which Rotax builds for them. Not gonna happen. That practice has been used by everybody and their Aunt Suzy for well over half a century and was "clearly not a Rotax design". Other Buells use the canned filter because it was already on the current engine block. It would have been stupid to change it. Agreed? We're getting into some obscure points here. My point is; Most would not look at the Buell engine and say "That is clearly a Rotax design." While they may look related, it is in a distant cousins twice removed way. The most salient point; Buell and Rotax both deserve credit for an excellent design. G. | ||
| Sshbsn |
Curtyd-- I'm glad things are better in Orlando. Understand that both Lee and Collier counties have dealerships owned by the same man. I think I have pretty good people skills, and am patient and tactful. I have many years' posts in here that will back that up. In addition, last summer I was a cash buyer, but when I went up to Charlotte county I couldn't even get a salesman. I tried to buy the bike from the parts counter--parts guys are always cool--but they couldn't help me out. That's why I say it's easy to "poo poo" these stories away, dismiss them as customers with poor people skills or no funds, but ANYBODY can go through the archives and see that this is a real, and widespread, problem. In fact, it got so bad that many dealers lost the Buell franchise, or so I understood it back when it happened. As I said, FREE BUELL NOW! wow, I'm an activist now | ||
| Curtyd |
Wait a minute, you SAY you had $10K in hand and you went to the dealer in Charlotte County to buy a BUELL, they had bikes, but no one would sell you one? Pardon if I am a bit skeptical of that... I have NEVER once walked in any dealer, car or auto, saying "I want to buy that bike, car, whatever", which by the way I have done on more than one occasion, and not been driving a few hours later. Tell me the story again, please? | ||
| Bob_thompson |
With what Curtyd and Sshbsn has said; I mostly agree with both and will add this; When I went to one of my four local HD dealers here who is the one Buell dealer to put my deposit on an 1125 and who still does mostly HD stuff I was pleasantly surprised by the knowledge and friendliness of what looked like a tried and true Harley rider/salesman and what he knew about selling Buells also. And the sales manager had been at the dealer expo in Nashville and raved about the new bike. However, even after that nice experience I do not expect much in service or parts as that has been my take after dealing with these people for many years. They recently expanded their facility and hopefully that will also give me another pleasant surprise later after I get my new bike for at least parts and warranty service. Here's hoping its a sign of a NEW Harley- Davidson mind set to give FULL service after the sale. And they still haven't got a clue about Buells at the other three HD Shops. | ||
| Sshbsn |
Yep, Curtyd, they have paper signs on all the bikes saying, please don't sit on it w/o a salesman. I looked around the showroom for a bit, then took one of the signs and went to the parts counter and asked how I could get a salesman to show me the Buell. I hung out for a few more minutes, then left. And not cash in hand, I took a checkbook. I never carry that kind of cash. But really Curtyd, I'm not going to let this turn into a little pissing match between us. It's pretty well documented that there's a few HD shops that treat Buell well, but most of them don't. Then a few people, like I said, say "oh it isn't true, it must be the customer/phase of the moon/terrorists or whatever." Fact is, the sport biker who is uninitiated in the HD dealership experience is unlikely to tolerate it unless he/she REALLY wants an 1125R. That is not the way it should be. | ||
| Paint_shaker |
Ok, it's a Buell with a Rotax/ Buell designed motor... So what!!!! I say ride the piss out of it, smoke the competion, enjoy the miles of smiles and be happy!!!!!!! As for the thread drift about dealers... I agree something needs to be done, but I would still buy a Buell inspite of "those" dealers. ****Disclaimer***** The following is not legal advise and may result in unfavorable attention from the Dealership and/or John Q Law. Want to really get a saleman's attention?? Remove said cardboard "Do not sit on" sign and promptly saddle up!! Still can't get their attention? Fire it up and watch them all come running. Shut it down and tell the nearest one "I'll take it, where do I sign"? | ||
| Jimidan |
There is a KTM dealer in the same town as my Buell dealership, who told me that he would "love to sell Buells". Considering how few HD dealerships even carry the brand (and more dropping Buells every week), it appears to just makes sense to let others sell them. | ||
| Bobbyny2tx |
Sshbsn,I just wanted to say I called my local HD dealer and asked if they were doing MSRP on the 08 Firebolt.He told me the Firebolt was discontinued and Buell is coming out with a new model ,the 1150r.I set him straight.Guess where Im not buying a bike. | ||
| Curtyd |
"I looked around the showroom for a bit, then took one of the signs and went to the parts counter and asked how I could get a salesman to show me the Buell. I hung out for a few more minutes, then left...." I just don't think this is a great example of someone not wanting to sell a BUELL. I'd simply go to the SALES office and ask for a SALESMAN to show me the BUELL bike over there. Maybe they have had too many complaints from guys like me who don't like being "bum rushed" when they hit a sales floor. No p****** match I just don't think YOU were going to buy anything that day, and when no one confronted you, you used that as your 'good' reason to leave. I don't think HD is ever going to cut BUELL loose, since they are mainly interested in who they can add to their customer base for the short and long term. That is one BIG reason they bought them and invested in them to begin with. I don't think the HD guys are an insurmountable obstacle to me enjoying a BUELL, it's been generally pretty trouble free anyhow. P.S. I see your profile lists a Yamaha 600, so you don't have any ACTUAL EXPERIENCE with the BUELL/HD network or do you? I have plenty of lousy Yamaha/Honda bad dealer stories too, actual experiences not just opinions gathered in a "few minutes". (Message edited by CurtyD on July 28, 2007) | ||
| Jimidan |
No p****** match I just don't think YOU were going to buy anything that day, and when no one confronted you, you used that as your 'good' reason to leave. So, I guess that means you are calling him a liar, and an instigator for bringing the story to badweb just to try and make those good HD dealerships look bad? Sounds like a fine beginning for a P****** match to me. Let the urine flow begin!  | ||
| Curtyd |
LIAR is your word... Do I think a guy riding a bike that hasn't even been in production for 15 years or more was ready to pull the trigger on a 10K purchase that DAY, BUT left after a few minutes, is something I can attribute to a poor HD Dealer, my personal opinion is to answer NO. JimiDAn, you jump in with the name calling. What's that all about? Not feeling the LOVE....? I can't imagine why  (Message edited by CurtyD on July 28, 2007) | ||
| Nondual |
I had my first decent Buell salesman experience at Glendale....other than that, I called and called and most HD dealers just don't carry them. Ernie at the Glendale shop was really enthusiastic though, and had a few other guys and their Buells at the shop. He even invited me to a 'blessing of the bikes' no matter what I was riding. I wish all dealers could give an experience that was that thoughtful, but it doesn't appear to be the case. | ||
| Slaughter |
I've bought 2 (and a half) Buells from Ernie. This was before I became involved with Glendale's riding and racing groups. I paid FULL RETAIL - and became a racer after that - I got NO special deals as a "friend of Glendale." We have a great group of enthusiasts and are going to be putting together a street group for regular rides (it sorta fell apart after the BRAG thing quit) Even if you don't end up with a Buell, you'd be welcome to ride with us!!! Glendale is pretty unique when you can go out ON THE TRACK and ride with (or race against) the salesman who you bought your bike from or the GM of the shop! They do not hide from their customers after the sale! We can even put a group of nearly 30 of us for a Buell track day (our first track day in Pahrump, NV):  | ||
| Sshbsn |
Wow Curtyd, bad day at work? I thank you for your interest in my history. To sate your curiosity: March '04 purchase new '04 XB12R October '04 purchase new '05 XL1200R for Dad June '06 purchase new '05 leftover Triumph Daytona 955i October '06 purchase new '07 Harley Super Glide March '07 purchase used track bike, the mighty '91 FZR 600 So you see, I have had some small experience buying from the HD network. And I don't think Joe Sportbike will be too turned on by the dealership experience if he goes in to look at the new Buell. We're all on the same side here, Curtyd--we all think highly of BMC and want to see it succeed. Insinuations and red herrings won't really help anything. Steve | ||
| Curtyd |
I just want to hear all the facts, even when they have to be dragged out of someone. With what you were saying above I could not blame the dealer. Their loss if they wouldn't serve you, isn't that what a free market is all about? I am no HD apologist, believe that. But without HD I don't think we would have BUELL, maybe that is unfortunate to some here. But it is what it is. I have been dealing with the anti-japanese HD motorcycle crowd for nearly 20 years when I bought the first BUELL because of how it rides. We are on a BUELL site so guess what? Everyone complains about the BUELL/HD dealer experiences. I am offering the perspective that there are more than enough bad dealers out there in every brand. I also have HD mechanics as friends now and they seem very excited about the new bike. Every group has people in it who resist change, but I see the real motorcycle enthusiast crowd even in the HD community as very excited about it, just saying, "146HP", has them all giddy. Seminole HD now has their BUELL shop housed in their old dealer location, same dealer, two shops, time will tell if that helps them bring in more business or whether they close it up in a few years. I bought my first BUELL at Space Coast, and the owner was an ex-racer and was very excited about the bike in 1999, but right now the sales guys are ready to let go of the line because they just don't move enough units. We have always been nothing but a niche market, maybe the 1125R will be a breakthrough bike. I sort of consider us lucky that HD is there in the background, big change in technology and production from the 1999 M2/X1 series and the XB line, bigger even now with the 1125R, it all happened after that HD cash and ownership took over, not before. | ||
| Jimidan |
Curtyd sez: JimiDAn, you jump in with the name calling. What's that all about? Not feeling the LOVE....? I can't imagine why You are right, you can't! I was posing the question to you: "So, I guess that means you are calling him a liar, and an instigator for bringing the story to badweb just to try and make those good HD dealerships look bad?", since you obviously said that he was by definition, a liar. See below: lie2 n. 1. A false statement deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood. 2. Something meant to deceive or give a wrong impression. What do YOU call it then? Your response to him was neither thoughtful, respectful. or pithy...and besides, I was just messin' with ya' since you have been giving me so much shitte in some other threads. I could give two dumps whether you call folks liars or think that I am not feeling the "love". I just got laid (it is Sunday morning), so I am feeling plenty of love. BTW. How 'bout you? (Message edited by jimidan on July 29, 2007) | ||
| Ducxl |
I feel the love of reassembling my 996 in the next month. maybe the 1125R will be a breakthrough bike. When the 1125r starts racing as well as street riders spanking the likes of the generic Japanese superbike that's when the breakthrough will be realized.And i can't wait for that to happen.That's when BMC goes crazy financially.Maybe we need to start investing.No,wait,Harley-Davidson is on a crash course with their antiquated machines.I think there will be an inversion regarding who's who (H-D vs. BMC) at HDI. | ||
| Curtyd |
"I looked around the showroom for a bit, then took one of the signs and went to the parts counter and asked how I could get a salesman to show me the Buell. I hung out for a few more minutes, then left...." "No p****** match I just don't think YOU were going to buy anything that day, and when no one confronted you, you used that as your 'good' reason to leave." Where even ONCE above do I say he made a false statement intending to mislead someone? I said my opinion about whether he was going to buy a bike that day when he said he just stayed a few minutes and talked to the parts guy. I stated my opinion of what he was saying happened. How is that an accusation? Or calling someone a liar? Who has the chip on their shoulder JimiDan? Remember.... "Stupid is as stupid does" Forest Gump. Incessant and repetitive whiner of being labeled a troll, that can't be true when every "fish" out there that floats by you try to throw out your "lure".,,right? (Message edited by CurtyD on July 29, 2007) | ||
| Curtyd |
"Do I think a guy riding a bike that hasn't even been in production for 15 years or more was ready to pull the trigger on a 10K purchase that DAY, BUT left after a few minutes, is something I can attribute to a poor HD Dealer, my personal opinion is to answer NO. " Again, MY opinion expressed, NO false statement or liar accusations. READ for COMPREHENSION...it is a useful and underutilized skill, since JimiDan wants to go to the Merriam-Webster, heh? How is that for "thoughtful, respectful. or pithy...?" (Message edited by CurtyD on July 29, 2007) | ||
| Sshbsn |
Well, I thought that stuff had already been settled between Curtyd and myself. He wanted more info, I gave it, end of story. Don't fall prey to people egging you on, Curtyd, there's no personal argument between us. AND,this has nothing to do, really, with the position that I and many others take, namely that HD dealerships do a poor job of supporting the Buell brand. And I still don't know why HD won't let outside dealers pick up the Buell line. Honda doesn't insist that only their dealerships sell Acura after all. I firmly believe that putting Buell--especially now with the 1125R--into a more supportive atmosphere is extremely important. With the hard work, dedication, and passion that BMC employees have poured into their product, they've earned it. | ||
| Ducxl |
I have to respectfully disagree with you there "Ss".I've had issues with my dealer Precision Harley-Davidson/Buell.But they keep LOTS of Buells' on the floor.Even a brand new 2001 X1W in the protective bag. They're SUPER supportive too,i can't say enough.Despite one head butting session which they jumped through hoops to rectify. Also,with the planned diversification of the Buell line (remember,dirtbikes' next to the 1125r) I would think Harley-Davidson would salivate at the wide range of motorcycle models to be available on their floor.It's a great time to be a Harley-Davidson dealer.The so called "Biker craze" may fizzle,and they've little else to offer. | ||
| Curtyd |
"Ssh", it maybe is a great idea from our perspective, but for HD, Buell is an investment in creating a market of future riders. They never will let them share a shop with any other brand, I believe. If you come to Harley and don't want a CRUISER, they want to say "here have a BUELL." They never want to say here have a BUELL, or a Honda, or a Yamaha or whatever floats your boat. I am surprised really that they haven't already shut down the BUELL line and remarked everything as "HD 1125R", "HD Sportster XB", etc. They probably are smart enough to realize they lose their core market of guys like you and me. It was a BIG deal for me to get even this close to something that is under wraps a HD product, if it said HD, I might actually pass all together. Lousy HD dealers probably have something to do with who had a lot of the expansion HD shops in the 1970's and 80's, some of the 1% clubs were taking over cycle shops back then. Remember, the 'Angels' come in wearing 3 piece suits now. Personally, I'll take a HD retired dirttracker run shop over any of the corporate types of any flavor. Ex racers seem to run the best shops whether japanese, italian, british or american. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
The dealer thing is so subjective depending on each dealer. I am NOT crazy about my dealer--mainly the service department. The sad fact is that the profit on selling a Buell is much lower than the over-priced HD bikes & combined that so many fewer Buell units are sold...well, in as much as I am disappointed in the HD dealerships attitude toward Buell, I am not surprised. In spite of that, I am looking forward to buying an 1125r like you wouldn't believe.... | ||
| Midknyte |
Do I think a guy riding a bike that hasn't even been in production for 15 years or more was ready to pull the trigger on a 10K purchase that DAY I did EXACTLY that! | ||
| Buellshyter |
I have a headache and it's not from my HD dealer | ||
| Jimidan |
Curtyd sez: Incessant and repetitive whiner of being labeled a troll, that can't be true when every "fish" out there that floats by you try to throw out your "lure".,,right? There is a big difference between whining and rubbing your nose in it...learn the distinguish between them. Hint: When you have had your nose rubbed in it...it smells like crow. (Message edited by jimidan on July 30, 2007) |
