| Author | Message | ||
     Milar |
I was speculating about what the 1125R says about senior HD's managements view of Buell and BMC's role at Harley. 1. HD is willing to invest millions in Buells future. A new engine costs about $1,000,000. Two new engines in one year. Plus developing a dirt bike line. Big investments. HD will want big returns. 2. At $11,900, the R is priced closer to Japan than Europe. Japan is a volume game. HD is pricing for volume. 3. Volume sales mean more mainstream bikes. Good bye funky, quirky bikes, hello standards, tourers and big sellers. 4. HD believes their growth lies in overseas sales. Buell already sells more bikes in Europe than the US. Perhaps the new bikes (single's and water cooled twins) were designed for Buells biggest market? A weak dollar and volume pricing should make the new bikes very competitive in Europe and Japan. Just a few thoughts to spur discussion. M | ||
| Court |
>>>A new engine costs about $1,000,000. Where did that figure come from? I'd say that figure is closer to air fare to and from Austria for the past 3 years, may some hotels and food. | ||
| Thespive |
And my understanding is that Buell financed this engine project from thier own balance sheets... I wholeheartedly disagree with #3. Volume doesn't mean the end of anything. It means more of us can get our funky, quirky bikes at reasonable prices. --Sean | ||
| Buellshyter |
A weak dollar and volume pricing should make the new bikes very competitive in Europe and Japan. I think Trojan said the 1125 was going to be more expensive over there then in the U.S., which makes no sense to me considering the exchange rate. | ||
| Milar |
>>>A new engine costs about $1,000,000. >Where did that figure come from? I'd say >that figure is closer to air fare to and >from Austria for the past 3 years, may >some hotels and food. It came from John Flickinger in a converstion about Triumph. We were discussing how they can afford so many new engine designs in such a short period of time. I used the $1,000,000 because I didn't want to overhype my post. If it makes you more comfortable, you can edit my post to say "at least $1,000,000." The point I was making wasn't the actual dollar amount. It was that HD has enough faith in Buell to invest large sums of money in the BMC division. >And my understanding is that Buell >financed this engine project from thier >own balance sheets... Buell is a division of HD. Budgets, business plans, investments are made only after senior HD approval no matter where the money comes from. >I wholeheartedly disagree with #3. Volume >doesn't mean the end of anything. It >means more of us can get our funky, >quirky bikes at reasonable prices. Sedans and trucks sell in volume and pay the bills. Funky, quirky cars are a low volume sideline. For Buell to grow and justify Harley's multi-million dollar investment, they need to become more mainstream. The Uly was the first step. Expect to see more mainstream models. M | ||
| Thespive |
Wait, so what you are saying is that any time buell expands in to a new market, it is going mainstream? So Buell should only make the bike YOU want? That is absurd. The Uly is no more mainstream than the Lightning is. --Sean | ||
| Court |
>>>I used the $1,000,000 because I didn't want to overhype my post. If it makes you more comfortable, you can edit my post to say "at least $1,000,000." I'm good for that, kinda like saying my new car cost more than $500. conceded. | ||
| Indy_bueller |
I think Trojan said the 1125 was going to be more expensive over there then in the U.S., which makes no sense to me considering the exchange rate. Taxes and tariffs, no doubt. Remember, we are talking about Europe. | ||
| 12r |
The 1125 will be £8495 in the UK ($17400). This pitches it slightly below Fireblade/R1/GSX-R territory but it's up against a whole range of Euro-exotica from Ducati, KTM, BMW, MV etc... | ||
| Blake |
The 1125R price in the UK is below the Japan Inc repli-racers but more than the Euro literbikes?  | ||
| Jimidan |
1. HD is willing to invest millions in Buells future. A new engine costs about $1,000,000. Two new engines in one year. Plus developing a dirt bike line. Big investments. HD will want big returns. HD has one of the most comprehensive networks of dealerships in the world...too bad that only about half sell Buells (if that many). If HD really wants the "big return", they should force those non-Buell dealerships to start selling all of its products. There are folks on this site that say that they are 4-5 hours away from the nearest Buell dealership...in Wisconsin. That is unconscionable in HD's home state. | ||
| Gregtonn |
Did anybody happen to notice what HOG stock did the day after the 1125R was announced? There are at least few believers out there. G. | ||
| Stealthfighter |
the 1125R price here in Germany is €12,809 ($17,676) incl. taxes. it´s a very competitive price (Aprilia RSV 1000 R: $19,251 , Ducati 1098: $24,081 , BMW R 1200 S: $18,110 , Suzuki GSX-R 1000: $18,906)! | ||
| Gregtonn |
A very brief and simplified clip of Buell/HD history just to add some perspective. '80s, Erik to HD: You have a gap in your bike line. Maybe I could help. HD to Erik: Go away. '90s, HD (Jeff Bluestein) to Erik: We have a gap in our bike line. Maybe you could help? Erik to HD: Okay. 1990s-2000s, The gap closes. 7/8/2007, The gap closes dramatically. | ||
| Court |
>>>If HD really wants the "big return", they should force those non-Buell dealerships to start selling all of its products. Let me guess. . . "your name is Mike and your're going to add 500 dealers this year". . . Please God NO! | ||
| Milar |
>'90s, >HD (Jeff Bluestein) to Erik: We have a >gap in our bike line. Maybe you could >help? >Erik to HD: Okay. In HD's corporate strategy I wonder what BMC's role is slotted to be? To bring younger riders in the showrooms? To bring non-cruiser riders in the showroom? To expand export sales to overseas markets that don't traditionally buy cruisers? M | ||
| Milar |
>the 1125R price here in Germany is >€12,809 ($17,676) incl. taxes. it´s a >very competitive price (Aprilia RSV 1000 >R: $19,251 , Ducati 1098: $24,081 , BMW R >1200 S: $18,110 , Suzuki GSX-R 1000: >$18,906)! stealthfighter how would the 1125r compare in price to the BMW's? Say the R1200S? M | ||
| Blake |
"Forcing non-Buell dealerships to start selling (Buell) products" is a proven disaster. That anyone familiar with the related history on that issue would suggest such a think is truly bewildering. Jimi, when you come up with a means to force all dealerships to provide acceptable sales and service support for Buell customers, then please let the folks at HDI know; I'm certain they will be eagerly listening. Until then, the ONLY dealerships that should have Buell products are those that are enthusiastic about selling and supporting Buell motorcycles. Modesto should be one of them. That unfortunate turn of events still leaves me wondering; seems like someone on the HDI side should have been fired over that. But I digress. | ||
| Blake |
Buell is a division of HD. Isn't the accurate characterization "wholly owned subsidiary of", which is quite different than "a division of"? If you will recall, HDI began its relationship with Buell as a minority shareholder, then later purchased a majority stake and then the entire company. | ||
| Gregtonn |
Blake, When did HD acquire Erik's last 2% ? Did the "If Erik goes the name goes with him" clause go away? Just wondering. G. | ||
| Gregtonn |
Milar, I suspect HD's corporate strategy for Buell includes all of those goals and many more. G. | ||
| Djkaplan |
For the future? I'm thinking Buell might be a pretty ripe fruit for Bombardier to pick. Seems plausible enough. | ||
| Curtyd |
HD's strategy is to get folks in on any first bike and then keep them until they are old enough and rich enough to switch to one of their mainsteam 700 lb. HD cruisers. Believe it or not! Might not work too well with typical Buell rider, but HD still thinks it will. | ||
| Gtmg |
Well one part has been left out. Change the name to from Buell to say HD sport series or something like that. How many dealers embrace the line then and in a positive fashion??? | ||
| Gtmg |
"HD's strategy is to get folks in on any first bike and then keep them until they are old enough and rich enough to switch to one of their mainsteam 700 lb. HD cruisers. Believe it or not! Might not work too well with typical Buell rider, but HD still thinks it will." The truth is this a huge hole in both the HD and Buell lines. They need that 600cc bike to get young men and women on that all the Big 4 have. Cost needs to be about 6K. Until then there is no beginner bike in either line. The Blast just doesn't get it. Some neat ideas but truthfully the Kawasaki 250 puts it to shame at a lot lower price. | ||
| Blake |
Greg, I have no idea what you are talking about re the name clause. | ||
| Curtyd |
I would have thought the 9's would have filled the bill but with the release of the 12 motor I think the 9 sales went to the toilet. The 12 I drove did not have the FI sorted out. I liked my 9S motor better. I assume that is all sorted out now. Looks like this one will close down the 12Rs too. But HD corporate does believe that Buells will somehow deliver HD mainstream sales, who is to say they are wrong, just because I'll never drive one. Still too young at 53, bad knees, back and everything else! | ||
| Gregtonn |
Blake, When HD ownership of Buell went from 48% to 98%, there was a clause that said; If Erik left the company the Buell name would leave with him. You said: then later purchased a majority stake and then the entire company. I just wondered when HD acquired Erik's 2% share and if they also acquired rights to the Buell brand name? | ||
| Court |
There's much more to this and a snippet discussion risks missing the big picture. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I can't imagine the Chairman and Chief Technical Officer having no ownership. That would be very odd indeed. |
