| Author | Message | ||
     Nondual |
Buell has been killing me for years now with these innovations like the single front rim brake, the fuel in the frame, lowering and centralization of mass, and the fact that their bikes look amazing....but there's always been that proverbial 'dog turd on the wedding cake'. You know what I'm talking about - the paleolithic air-cooled pushrod engine! I got nothing against Vees. I'd been considering the Aprilia Tuono and the Superduke, as well as the Hypermotard. I think that for years, people like myself have been screaming from the sidelines, "Mr. Buell, please, please, please give us a modern engine!" And now you have! I'm so friggin' excited I could wet myself! Granted, it might be a year or so before I can afford a new bike. I've currently got a tiny little 2001 SV650 that I rode as my exclusive vehicle for a year and on which I learned how not to kill myself. I've been lusting over the best choices to which to step up, including the aforementioned Tuono, MV Agusta Brutale (for about 15 minutes until actually considering the maintenance costs and ergos), Hypermotard, Superduke, and now the 1125R! As a guy who actually moved from Durham, NC to Tucson, AZ on a NAKED (aftermarket fairing wouldn't fit after I changed the handlebars) SV650, I can totally appreciate the 'quiet zone' on the new bike. I have to say though, I'm not opposed to a naked version either, now that my main vehicle is my Mazdaspeed3. I know you guys are all excited about the 1125, but I just wanted to express my excitement from a 'wouldn't have really considered a Buell before' point of view. | ||
| Scrion |
So did you ever ride an XB with the "paleolithic air-cooled pushrod engine"? Or are you just ragging it based on what your rice-burning buddies are telling you (who probably also never rode one to form their own educated opinion). I've never met anyone who rode a Buell that didn't walk away impressed with how easy they are to ride better, faster and smoother. Until you try one, you don't get to stand on the sidelines and scream. Dog turd - come on, grow a pair and form your own opinions based on experience, not hearsay. | ||
| Nondual |
You're not listening - I didn't even WANT to test drive one. I was completely turned off by the engine. I don't need a bike that vibrates the bolts loose at idle, for instance. I want modern technology - I'm a geek. Whether the bike performed or not, no one can deny that the bikes have been hobbled by the air-breather. I know it's not nice to say among the Buell faithful, but the engine has always been a turn-off to people 'outside the fold'. I don't like I-4s, I love the power at low revs that are provided by Vees, I just wanted a Vee that was at least as modern as what's in my SV650. You're right though, I should head down to the Buell dealer and ride one. Heck, when I lived in Green Bay, WI I tried to find a Harley dealer that carried Buell, but the closest was hours away - nearer to Milwaukee. Now that I'm in LA, I really should ride one. | ||
| Crashbuell |
Have you ridden one of our "dog turds" before? I don't proclaim to be a motorcycle expert, but frankly, I have ridden an SV 650 before and I really wasn't moved by it the way I was moved by riding a Buell. There may be a lot of old-tech that goes into the building of a Buell, but its not the separate pieces that comprise the bike that bring value, but the sum of these parts. Sure, the motor is an old-school, air-cooled engine that was designed decades ago, but the fact remains that even with only two valves per cylinder, a single carburetor (a keihin no less!), and relatively unsophisticated ignition, these bikes manage about 100 horsepower and 85 ftlbs of torque. You may not be ready to admit that you would ride one or even like one, but the fact remains that you can't judge one until you have actually planted yourself in the seat and taken one for a spin. Who know, maybe you'll change your mind and convert to "the dark side". | ||
| Hughlysses |
Nondual, I'm sure there are many more like you out there. I think that not only are a lot of 1125R's going to be sold, but the bike is going to get a whole lot of guys like you to try air-cooled Buells and quite a few more of those will be sold as well. | ||
| Jaimec |
FYI: I was NEVER interested in the air-cooled boxer BMWs. When BMW released the K100 in 1984 I said the same thing Nondual said above: "BMW FINALLY built a bike for me." I always considered the old boxers over-priced and under-powered. After owning the K100 for ten years (and 158,000 miles) I slowly got into the whole "BMW Scene" and my next BMW was a 1996 R100RT. PS: I sold the boxer in 2000 (with 40,000 miles) in order to buy a brand new M2 Cyclone, but that's a whole 'nother story. In any event, the water cooled Buell will be a good intro, but it may make you curious about the older air cooled models too. | ||
| Tpoppa |
I know alot of Japanese sport bike riders don't like Harley's or Harley riders...Neither do some Buell riders. Buells are very different from HD's. There are sporbike motors out there that are better than the XB, but the SV650 isn't one of them. An XB9 will walk away from an SV650, and will do so with less maintenance. After 21,000 miles I've never had a bolt shake loose. http://www.motorcycle.com/shoot-outs/2003-naked-tw ins-15091.html (Message edited by tpoppa on July 17, 2007) | ||
| Reepicheep |
Glad Buell made an engine that appeals to you! And just think... if they can make the paelolithic lump of an engine in my XB9SX out perform your state of the art SV-650 motor (the XB9 motor makes more power, needs less maintenance, and gets better fuel economy), imagine what they can do with a "modern" design ;) It's a shame the XBRR was based on that same lump... it's only making 150HP at the rear wheel in race trim. That's what, 50 HP down on a highly modified SV650 motor? I can't remember exactly... ;) ;) Just having fun with you.... nothing wrong with not wanting air cooled pushrod and wanting water cooled overhead cam... some of us think an exceptionally well executed pushrod aircooled motor still has a place on a street motorcycle though. Nothing wrong with that either... | ||
| Spatten1 |
I'm with you Nondual. I did test ride Buells in the 90's and hated them. The engines are dog turds compared to other stuff out there, as far as acceleration is concerned. I love my dog turd now, really. It is an awesome ride. "Endearing" is a good adjective one of the factory guys used. It has a soul that I enjoy more than horsepower (most of the time). But, when I was a younger man I wouldn't have touched something with so little acceleration. No friggin way. The 1125 looks like it will take no prisoners. You and many others are welcome to join the Badwebbers. | ||
| Nondual |
When did I ever say the SV650 engine was a higher performer than the XB engines? I never said that - what I said was that it was a more modern engine. I would friggin' hope a 900 or 1200 cc engine would outperform the SV650. I didn't mean to flat out call the engine a 'dog turd'. What I'm saying is that it was incongruous with all the high-tech of the rest of the Buell package. So many people I've known have been like, 'If only! If only!' And now they don't have to say that anymore! | ||
| Dutchboy |
Scrion said: I've never met anyone who rode a Buell that didn't walk away impressed with how easy they are to ride better, faster and smoother. Until you try one, you don't get to stand on the sidelines and scream +1 It's a shame how many people miss out on the fun just because of the ragging on the 'lump'. They buy into the tired old cracks the magazine reviewers always trot out and never try the 'lump' out first hand. The 'lump' rocks. The 'lump' gets great gas mileage. The 'lump' is low maintenance. I love the way the 'lump' shakes my front turn signals. I love the sounds the 'lump' makes when I twist the throttle. The 'lump' pushes my buttons. The 'lump' is brilliant! It's funny really, how many people talk down on the 'lump' who've never actually ridden one. A shame actually, given how easy Buell makes it to take a test ride. I'm sure the 1125R is going to be an awesome ride. But the 'lump' powered Buells are special motorcycles. | ||
| Gschuette |
Just a quick point for Mister Non Dual. Um I believe the SV 650 is also an air breather. So is an R1 and a Fat Boy and a Volkswagen Beetle and the Superduke and Aprilia and even the MV breathe air. Most internal combustion engines breathe air. I think the term you are looking for is air cooled. | ||
| Anonymous |
Geez guys, don't be mean to Nondual! It's OK now, guys like him can be members of the Buell community. Quite frankly, most people want more "modern" motor types, and won't be swayed. So we finally got around to doing one, and we'll definitely do more. That doesn't mean the air cooled engines are being obsoleted, far from it. We're just going to bring more people into the family! We make great air cooled bikes, and we're going to be making great water cooled as well! | ||
| Spatten1 |
Get off of your high horses, he is right to have that opinion. Just as right as you are for yours. There is so much animosity here for anyone that doesn't think the world of the Sporster derived XB engines. It is just ridiculous. I rode one when I was younger, and I thought it was a friggin pile. From my perspective at the time (I liked acceleration and handling) it was not very impressive. You can talk about torque all you want, but some people like rapid acceleration. This does not make them ignorant or unfortunate. I also think much of the defensiveness here is because people want to believe that the XB engine is as high tech as the Buell chassis. I personally don't believe it is. Many people don't. Don't let that hurt your feelings so much. I love the XB engine and I love the classic engine feel in the modern chassis. I think it is very capable and pleasurable for the riding that I do. It is the most fun bike I've ever owned, but my needs are different then they were at one time. My needs are also different from a majority of sportbike buyers. You guys are entitled to your opinion too. But for crying out loud, quit telling 95% of the world that they are all idiots that don't get it. | ||
| Metalstorm |
Wow. I see Nondual's post as very positive. Lots of folks who would never take a second glance at a Tuber or XB are now going to be taking many long oogle sessions with the 1125R. Lots of people will convert. Buell sales will go through the roof. We will not be as exclusive as we once were but once Buells start selling like crazy, dealers' attitudes are going to become sooo much better for us  | ||
| Diablobrian |
Guys, it's all good... I realize, and I'm sure he does too, that he stepped on a couple of toes. We, like all motorcycle owners, are passionate about our bikes. What he was trying to communicate was: Thank you Buell for finally building the bike I was looking for. I say: Welcome to the Buell family. I also recommend treading lightly on other people's toes in their "house". | ||
| Blake |
Why youuuuuu... callin' my motorcycle's engine a "dog turd"? You don't really want me to open up this here giant can of Texas whoopass, do ya?  Welcome to BadWeB and enjoy the banter! But if'n ya know what's good fer ya, don' ever insult my Buell's engine agin, y'hear?  | ||
| Captainkirk |
What turned you off, mostly, about the "old, ancient, outdated Vee-twin air cooled pushrod motor".....is what sucked me in. GOBS of torque. Lumpy idle. Loud, noisy, rude and obnoxious, coupled with fiendishly wicked handling. A Harley-powered Tyrannosaurus Rex in a world of slanty-eyed Velociraptors complete with mosquito-swarm soundtrack. That being said, I'm totally flipping out over the 1125R and it may well be the next bike in the stable. But it won't REPLACE the M2. Not tomorrow. Not ever. Welcome to our world. Stick around...you might enjoy it, whatever you ride. | ||
| Luxor |
I gotta add to this. I find the XB/Thunderstorm combo just wicked. Perfect high-tech bike with the heart of a netherworld demon. Love to see the looks at stop lights when they look over expecting to see a Sporty or Glide and they see this little bike making all this nasty noise. Had one guy think it was possessed . I likin' Buells to a Pit Bull, and I4s to Greyhounds. The Pit Bull is not the biggest dog, not the fastest dog, but tenacious as hell if you piss it off. And twisties piss off the Buell plenty. Many times I've been riding with Greyhounds, fast and sleek, until we hit the twisties. At that point the Pit Bull comes into it's own, grabs a mouth full with locking jaws and does the death shake to the Greyhounds. So, you see, the Buell Thunderstorm V-Twin is a purely subjective thing. I prefer my antique twin over anything new fangled any day, simply because I have the High-Tech Buell motorcycle that was designed around it, just for people like me. I will own an 1125R, but will NEVER part with my air cooled Buells. | ||
| Slaughter |
Geeeziz guys. This thread became the classic example of what goes wrong with threads. I'm another one who has TONS of seat miles on the SV both on and off the racetrack. They're a really great bike. I think that the newer twin rider - like SOME OF US are - is likely to become one of the biggest buyers for the new 1125R SV650 Turn 4 Willow Springs  XB9R Turn 4 Willow Springs - same day  No - I don't have the SV any longer but I wouldn't expect to be beaten on for owning, riding and racing one either. A great bike that needed a bunch of work on the suspension but in its class, a great bike. Nobody has to defend the Buells, they can stand on their own! (and I'll likely have an 1125 in the stable in the coming year - though I'm kinda hard on the equipment) (Message edited by slaughter on July 18, 2007) | ||
| Dave |
People kill me on both sides of the fence -- the real discovery here is that riders (prejudiced of the HD based engine or not) have the bike THEY have been waiting for. Personally ... I kinda like my turd on the cake ... turd in the punch bowl ... My fear is that I'll ride an 1125R and start to see my HD based engines in a similar light. DAve | ||
| Smoke |
i'm with you on the sv steve. i picked up a well suspended, stock motored, aprilia full body worked 02 sv that had previously been raced when my s1w track bike was down and have kept using it as back up for when i have buell problems at the track so that i don't have to sacrifice track time to mechanicals. the s1 is more fun but the sv just won't break and is very easy to ride at my back of the advanced group pace on either bike. i just don't get passed as often as i used to by the same guys in a session. i liked the feel of th 9R but it wasn't that much better than the s1 to me for fun factor. i had been ready to pick up a 07 9R this year used but i expect that my new 1125R will have the fun factor and motor desired. welcome to the madness nondual and others. tim   | ||
| Rauchman |
Greetings, Don't post here too often, but I can't wait for the 1125R to come out. I've owned a 1st gen SV650S and absolutely loved the motor in it. For it's price and what is offered, that's a hard bike to beat. I've test ridden a XB12R and XB12Ss, and while I was absolutely enamored with bikes (particularly the 12R), I really don't know that I would buy one. The bikes were unquestionably "cool", but I'm not entirely sold on the "feel" of the Thunderstorm engine. Also, there was a bolt or something that rattled off the XB12Ss that I was riding, just as I was pulling back into the dealership. I'm also a fan of a modern sporting twin and don't think the Thunderstorm engine would be for me. The 1125R, OTOH, is going to bring a lot of folks to Buell. This could very well be the bike I've been waiting for. Really looking forward to a test ride!!! | ||
| Xl1200r |
I'm lucky enough to the light at both ends of the tunnel  I've never owned a street bike that didn't have an HD (or HD-based) engine. I simply love what its all about - vibrations, attitude, sound...everything. I also love modern engines of all configurations. I recently test rode a number of bikes - a 2007 Kawasaki ZX10R (DOHC IL4), 2007 Suzuki Vstrom 1000 (DOHV V2), 2007 Honda VFR (DOHC V4) - all very different and very modern engines. I loved everyone of them - the smoothness, the power, the sound... I was especially partial to the Kawa 1000. I started to get a little buyers remourse having just purchased my '07 12R. But then I got back on my bike. Started it up. The thing was shaking like hell, just itching to go. These air-cooled Buells are like caged beasts, making all kinds of noise. The character is just something you can't find in any other sport bike. Period. Some, like me, love that character. Others hate it. Frankly, I don't care. The 1125R is an amazing bike as far as can be told by a minisite, but (not trying to knock it), it has moved itself to be more similar to everything else out there. I still want one (specifiacllt an ST version), but it will never replace my XB. My Firebolt pretty much represents who I am in every sense I can think of. Maybe the 1125R does the same for other people. Love the bike if you want to, and hate the XB's if you want to. It's all your opinion and you're entitled to it. Glad to have you aboard in any case. | ||
| Nondual |
Guys, the 'dog turd in the wedding cake' metaphor pertained to ME personally. Buells were like getting EVERYTHING I want except for one very important thing that ruined the whole package for me. Why did it ruin it? Because I couldn't ever get it out of my mind that I really WANTED the chassis and overall high-tech of the bike....but I wanted the Aprilia or Ducati (sans maintenance headaches, please) engine. The Buells had everything I liked, but I just couldn't get over the fact that the engine is a dinosaur. In a beer-and-burger bomber, it's okay, but in a performance bike, it was just inexcusable in my opinion. | ||
| Just_john |
Nondual, Welcome to Badweb! You're getting a 'baptism of fire'. It could be worse, they might compare you to Rocket!! | ||
| Scrion |
My point was not to stomp Nondual into the dirt because he's a water-cooled guy. My point was this - don't knock it until you try it. If you've taken the time to ride one and still don't like it, I have absolutely no problem respecting your opinion. But when your opinion is not based on actual experience, but rather an assumption or preconceived notion, I have a hard time respecting that position. Just because the design has been around for 50+ years, that doesn't mean it won't work. The wheel has been around for thousands of years and no one has been able to find a better design for rolling things. Sometimes the design just works. Different isn't always better. Sometimes it's just different. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Back in 2000, I was planning to buy an SV650. Everything about the bike was just about perfect for what I was looking for. Then I test rode one, and the tank flare was way too far back on the bike, my knees had to stick out. And looking for a used one (in 2000), they were pretty pricey. So I kept looking, and stumbled across Buell and BadWeb, and bought a 3000 mile 2000 M2 for $5000. And the rest is history Since then, I recommended two friends buy SV650's (as it was a perfect bike for what they wanted). One listened to me and bought it (the other bought a ZR-7, which was my second choice for him). For the price, you can't beat an SV-650. I also don't think you can make an SV-650 as nice as an XB9SX for the cost difference between the two, so I think the 9sx is also a great bike at it's price point. I think the motor in an XB9 is very well suited to the role of the bike. That 1125R looks like the bees knees for it's role as well. I *really* look forward to the future of the lightning line... an air cooled 995cc helicon in a TT chassis for $10k would have me starting spousal negiotiations the moment it was announced, and is about the only bike I could imagine that would pry my beloved 9sx out of my hands. | ||
| Nondual |
You know how I ended up with the SV650? My motorscooter had broken and a girl at work was selling her bike to buy a new one....so I figured it'd be more functional than my scooter...And then I fell in love with riding! My point was NEVER to say that the SV650 is somehow better than a Buell ('cept maybe the Blast, LOL). My point was just that the engine is water-cooled and therefore, in my opinion, more modern. A lot of us have had real heartbreak about the Buells, because they're so CLOSE, but not quite there... Till now! | ||
| 45_degrees |
Well... liquid cooling doesn't make an engine modern... nor does OHC... Pretty much any internal combustion engine is "old fashioned". I like the 1125R, but if they came out with the XB13 with the RR engine, with maybe slightly less peak HP, but way more torque, I would buy that over the 1125R. But I think the 1125R would make a really good touring bike for me. |
